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Thread: Sal P calls out the Jets drafting over the last 5 years.

  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    Ignoring the last four thread derailing solid posts from the SOJF troll tag team currently performing their tired, lame old Jet hating act for their chowd troll buddies



    This message is hidden because Jordy is on your ignore list
    This message is hidden because DDNYjets is on your ignore list
    This message is hidden because DDNYjets is on your ignore list.
    This message is hidden because Jordy is on your ignore list
    And how exactly, do these constant reminders of who you are currently (pretend) ignoring add to the level of conversation?

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    Ignoring the last four thread derailing solid posts from the SOJF troll tag team currently performing their tired, lame old Jet hating act for their chowd troll buddies



    This message is hidden because Jordy is on your ignore list
    This message is hidden because DDNYjets is on your ignore list
    This message is hidden because DDNYjets is on your ignore list.
    This message is hidden because Jordy is on your ignore list
    LOL.

    Oxymoron.

    From a moron.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoYaztremski View Post
    And how exactly, do these constant reminders of who you are currently (pretend) ignoring add to the level of conversation?
    Give the old guy a break. He's limited.


  4. #224
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    For the record -- I think just about everyone agrees that the Jets drafted well in 2006 and 2007 -- when we picked up the young stud core of the team, the young core that helped us get to the AFCCGs

    The question is whether we've drafted well more recently, specifically in the Rex era, and whether failure to do so is going to hurt us in the next few years.

  5. #225
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    Congratulations to the SOJF tag team of Jordy and DDNY on being selected by Guido, TX, ASG, Patman, Patriotreign, Spectre, Cleatmarks, and the rest of the chowd trolls at JI as BEST JET "FAN" POSTERS on the boards

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    For the record -- I think just about everyone agrees that the Jets drafted well in 2006 and 2007 -- when we picked up the young stud core of the team, the young core that helped us get to the AFCCGs

    The question is whether we've drafted well more recently, specifically in the Rex era, and whether failure to do so is going to hurt is in the next few years.
    + 1 billion

    The 06 and 07 drafts combined with the signing of quality FAs or trades (Jones, Jenkins, Woody, Faneca, Richardson, Pace) led to that run. The only thing that needs to mentioned is those decisions were made with Mangini.

    Things can happen quickly in the NFL. Draft well for a couple of years and sign some quality players and you will be a contender. The 2008-2010 Jets are proof of that. (I include 2008 b.c if Favre doesn't get hurt I think we do some special things)

    But the opposite is also true. Draft poorly and make poor signings and you will suffer.

    Hopefully the 2012 draft was the start of wave of successful drafts.

    But if you ask Ray Ray, drafting well is not a necessity to winning a SB.
    Last edited by DDNYjets; 07-06-2012 at 03:30 PM.

  7. #227
    I don't get the Shonn Greene hate either. The kid is a beast. He ran for 1000+ behind a sh!tty OLine. He was a 3rd round pick.

    I don't get the outrage.®

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    Congratulations to the SOJF tag team of Jordy and DDNY on being selected by Guido, TX, ASG, Patman, Patriotreign, Spectre, Cleatmarks, and the rest of the chowd trolls at JI as BEST JET "FAN" POSTERS on the boards
    Lead the cheer sg3! Lead the cheer!


  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    + 1 billion

    The 06 and 07 drafts combined with the signing of quality FAs or trades (Jones, Jenkins, Woody, Faneca, Richardson, Pace) led to that run. The only thing that needs to mentioned is those decisions were made with Mangini.

    Things can happen quickly in the NFL. Draft well for a couple of years and sign some quality players and you will be a contender. The 2008-2010 Jets are proof of that. (I include 2008 b.c if Favre doesn't get hurt I think we do some special things)

    But the opposite is also true. Draft poorly and make poor signings and you will suffer.

    Hopefully the 2012 draft was the start of wave of successful drafts.

    But if you ask Ray Ray, drafting well is not a necessity to winning a SB.

    Agree with this 100%, and the missing piece to all of that was Rex. But it's now 2012, can he do what he did in '09-'10 with the pieces he has now?

  10. #230
    Jenkins never factored into the AFCCG's in my opinion. If he was healthy that might have been the difference maker. He hardly played for Rex.

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    Jenkins never factored into the AFCCG's in my opinion. If he was healthy that might have been the difference maker. He hardly played for Rex.
    His loss was huge.

    He was a major difference maker at NT.

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    Jenkins never factored into the AFCCG's in my opinion. If he was healthy that might have been the difference maker. He hardly played for Rex.
    You are right somewhat.

    I think the one thing we have been missing for Rex's defense is the true NT. It took 2 people (Devito and Pouha) to do what Jenkins did by himself. I also think that is why the conventional pass rush has always stunk. Jenkins allowed up to put more legit pass rush threats on the field while still taking up blockers. There are not many of those guys in the league.

    Well that and a true FS.
    Last edited by DDNYjets; 07-06-2012 at 03:44 PM.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    Ignoring the last four thread derailing solid posts from the SOJF troll tag team currently performing their tired, lame old Jet hating act for their chowd troll buddies



    This message is hidden because Jordy is on your ignore list
    This message is hidden because DDNYjets is on your ignore list
    This message is hidden because DDNYjets is on your ignore list.
    This message is hidden because Jordy is on your ignore list
    Thanks for the contribution, sg. You've really raised the level of discourse with this post. Nice work!

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    Take off Revis and Gronkowski (best players on either team's side) and the Pats still make that trade.

    You're talking about Mangold (best center in the game), Harris (a better LB than Mayo), Ferguson (typically a top 5 LT coming off a down year) and Wilkerson (a guy who had a stud rookie year) for Hernandez (a top TE), Mayo, Mankins, Solder, and Chung.

    Line 'em up by position. Ferguson is a better tackle than Solder. Harris is a better LB than Mayo. Mangold is a better interior OL than Mankins. That leaves Wilkerson, Hernandez, and Chung. Let's say I grant you that Hernandez has more value than Wilkerson (not sure he does, given the relative importance of the position and the fact that Hernandez is a catch-only TE who only plays as well as he does because he is in that offense with the best TE-cover man rolled to Gronkowski) - Chung still wouldn't make up for the decrease in value represented by the other players. And if you include Keller on the Jets side of the equation (which I should have to make the number of players equal), there's no doubt at all.
    Several things:

    - This exercise is a waste. You don't judge entire drafts over several years by cherry picking the best players.
    - The initial point was whether Pats fans would make the trade. Because the Pats have arguably the best o-line coach in the game who makes chicken salad out of chicken sh*t and they have Brady who needs weapons, we would value TEs over o-linemen. Another team's fan might jump all over that trade.
    - I think you guys overrate Harris. When he is on, he is a top 5 ILB/MLB. But he has had several years where he wasn't on and was closer to average. He is inconsistent that way.
    - Also, I think Mayo would be far better in the Jets' defense because I think the Pats ask him to cover for some deficiencies in other areas which prevents him from being a playmaker. It will be interesting to see if the secondary improves and Hightower and Jones make impact whether Mayo turns into a playmaker.
    - I think you overrate Wilkerson too. He had a very good rookie season, but stud season is a little pushing it. Solder also had a very good rookie season. It will be interesting to see who becomes a more solid player on their side of the ball.
    - I think you underrate Hernandez. He isn't good only because of Gronkowski. He was performing in 2011 before Gronk emerged. As for blocking, he is an Antonio Gates/Tony Gonzalez type of TE which means he is more of a TE/WR hybrid. He isn't as good as either of those TEs in their prime (at least not yet), but you would never discount those two because they suck at blocking.

    Again, I really don't understand the point of this exercise. I don't think you can judge five years of drafting based on cherry picking 5-6 players. You gotta judge drafts not just on the top players drafted, but the role players and average starters.

    Personally, I don't want to get into that argument either because then we get into fights over which role players are nothing scrubs vs. solid contributors and that is where the real homerism comes out in full swing by fans of both teams and the discussion degenerates even more than it has already.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob0729 View Post
    This exercise is a waste. You don't judge entire drafts over several years by cherry picking the best players.
    Exactly. So lets put Gronkowski aside for a moment, and lets talk about these players (That NE has drafted dating back to 2006).

    Kareem Brown
    Clint Oldenburg
    Justin Rogers
    Mike Richardson
    Justise Hairston
    Corey Hilliard
    Oscar Lua
    Mike Elgin
    Terrence Wheatley
    Shawn Crable
    Kevin O’Connell
    Jonathan Wilhite
    Bo Ruud
    Ron Brace
    Darius Butler
    Brandon Tate
    Tyrone McKenzie
    Rich Ohrnberger
    George Bussey
    Jake Ingram
    Myron Pryor
    Julian Edelman
    Darryl Richard
    Jermaine Cunningham
    Taylor Price
    Ted Larsen
    Thomas Welch
    Kade Weston
    Zac Robinson
    Malcolm Williams
    Markell Carter
    Lee Smith

    Now, explain to me (since I'm no longer cherry picking the top draft selections) why did NE draft these busts? What type of production did they provide for the New England Patriots and what have the Patriots gotten back in return for the players who are either A.) On other teams or B.) No longer in the league?

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post

    Kareem Brown
    Clint Oldenburg
    Justin Rogers
    Mike Richardson
    Justise Hairston
    Corey Hilliard
    Oscar Lua
    Mike Elgin
    Terrence Wheatley
    Shawn Crable
    Kevin O’Connell
    Jonathan Wilhite
    Bo Ruud
    Ron Brace
    Darius Butler
    Brandon Tate
    Tyrone McKenzie
    Rich Ohrnberger
    George Bussey
    Jake Ingram
    Myron Pryor
    Julian Edelman
    Darryl Richard
    Jermaine Cunningham
    Taylor Price
    Ted Larsen
    Thomas Welch
    Kade Weston
    Zac Robinson
    Malcolm Williams
    Markell Carter
    Lee Smith
    LOL.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    Exactly. So lets put Gronkowski aside for a moment, and lets talk about these players (That NE has drafted dating back to 2006).

    Kareem Brown
    Clint Oldenburg
    Justin Rogers
    Mike Richardson
    Justise Hairston
    Corey Hilliard
    Oscar Lua
    Mike Elgin
    Terrence Wheatley
    Shawn Crable
    Kevin O’Connell
    Jonathan Wilhite
    Bo Ruud
    Ron Brace
    Darius Butler
    Brandon Tate
    Tyrone McKenzie
    Rich Ohrnberger
    George Bussey
    Jake Ingram
    Myron Pryor
    Julian Edelman
    Darryl Richard
    Jermaine Cunningham
    Taylor Price
    Ted Larsen
    Thomas Welch
    Kade Weston
    Zac Robinson
    Malcolm Williams
    Markell Carter
    Lee Smith

    Why did NE draft these busts? What type of production did they provide for the New England Patriots and what have the Patriots gotten back in return for the players who are either A.) On other teams or B.) No longer in the league?
    Ok, let's replace one exercise in futility with another one. Good for you. Let's just list the player who haven't worked out without taking into account:

    - The players that worked out
    - What draft rounds these were drafted
    - How many picks the Pats had that year

    Also several of the players listed are far from busts.

    - Pryor is till on the team and productive when he is healthy (he was injured last year) especially for a guy who was drafted in the sixth round. You get any type of production out of sixth rounder, he isn't a bust.
    - Edelman is a seventh rounder who is a very good punt retuner, played decent in the secondary last year at least at times, and filled in for Welker very well in 2010 when Welker was injured. He is anything but a bust. He was a home run based on his draft position.
    - Mike Richardson was a seventh round pick who was a decent role player until he got busted for drugs and the Pats cut him.
    - For that matter any sixth or seventh round pick listed is not a bust whether they make the team or not since sixth and seventh round picks are long shots to last in the league more than a year or two no matter what team they play for.


    This is exactly what I meant when the homerism goes into overdrive.

    Fact of the matter is when the Pats stockpile picks, they have a lot of late round throw away picks. Yes, the Pats have had their fair share of higher round busts (maybe more than their fair share), but most of the players you listed were 6th and 7th rounders that were long shots to make the team. In 2007, the Pats had 6 picks in the sixth and seventh round and in 2010 they had four seventh round picks. Only Brandon Deadrick (who was a home run as a seventh round pick) has lasted out of those 10 player. So nine of the players you listed were long shots to make the team before they set foot on the field. And that is just two of the years in question. There are probably 4 or 5 other sixth and seventh rounders on that list.
    Last edited by Rob0729; 07-06-2012 at 06:17 PM.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    Exactly. So lets put Gronkowski aside for a moment, and lets talk about these players (That NE has drafted dating back to 2006).

    Kareem Brown
    Clint Oldenburg
    Justin Rogers
    Mike Richardson
    Justise Hairston
    Corey Hilliard
    Oscar Lua
    Mike Elgin
    Terrence Wheatley
    Shawn Crable
    Kevin O’Connell
    Jonathan Wilhite
    Bo Ruud
    Ron Brace
    Darius Butler
    Brandon Tate
    Tyrone McKenzie
    Rich Ohrnberger
    George Bussey
    Jake Ingram
    Myron Pryor
    Julian Edelman
    Darryl Richard
    Jermaine Cunningham
    Taylor Price
    Ted Larsen
    Thomas Welch
    Kade Weston
    Zac Robinson
    Malcolm Williams
    Markell Carter
    Lee Smith

    Now, explain to me (since I'm no longer cherry picking the top draft selections) why did NE draft these busts? What type of production did they provide for the New England Patriots and what have the Patriots gotten back in return for the players who are either A.) On other teams or B.) No longer in the league?
    First of all, Edelman and Cunningham are still with the team, Statz, reload your matrix. You could run this exercise for every team in the NFL and it would look equally as "IN YOUR FACE!". Seriously, just stop. Why even put Gronkowski aside? Every team has figured him out, everyone will be doubling teaming him. No one will see Antonio Gates coming, however, in his All-Pro season at age 33.
    Last edited by ASG0531; 07-06-2012 at 06:16 PM.

  19. #239
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    Why are these Patriot fans getting their panties in bunches over this list? The Patriots have had some solid picks over the years, but dating back to 2006, they've been one of the worst teams in regards to drafting. This list just points it out, that they've missed 10x more than they've hit. They've missed bad too.

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASG0531 View Post
    First of all, Edelman and Cunningham are still with the team, Statz, reload your matrix. You could run this exercise for every team in the NFL and it would look equally as "IN YOUR FACE!". Seriously, just stop.
    Congrats, two out of 32-34?

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