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Thread: Honest Question is Flacco that much better than Sanchez??

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Hey-zus Christo, I'm a freaking Jet fan. My team pulled out the stops and moved up to draft a franchise guy--he had a great rookie season, had a better sophmore season and slipped back last year because (i) HE was inconsistent and (ii) his offensive line abandoned him. No excuses, there it is.

    Does he need to improve?

    Ah, yeah. So does every other 3rd year QB in the history of history.

    But the idiotic comparisons to Brady and Rodgers and Eli in their 7th or 8th or 9th or 10th year is f*cking ridiculous.

    And how anyone can objectively say that Sanchez is better than Flacco or Flacco is better than Sanchez is equally ridiculous. If Flacco is your guy, he's your guy--same with Sanchez. There is NOTHING seperating these guys other than the color of their jersey.
    Some of the platitutudes the Sanchez haters are looking for RIGHT NOW are idiotic. The "he was given the best of everything" mantra is JUST as idiotic.

    Yeah, I'm a Jet fan and I'll take Sanchez over Flacco, just as if I was a Raven fan I'd take Flacco over Sanchez. there is an Untouchable or Bambi-Killer or DooshBake right now on RavensInsider killing Flacco.

    I am so sick and tired of hearing the "objective and rational" Jet fans just saying what they see, because they are just as jaded as all the homers.

    You want to call me a homer?

    Fine, I rather be a homer than a self-loathing hater criticizing everything this franchise does.

    Hey, but they're just being objective, right?

    _
    Agree, but the world is not full of realistic and practical people on the extremes.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    If the goal is to win a super bowl, you have to perform during the playoffs, right?.
    Yeah, you might want to win an AFC Championship Game along the way.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Hey-zus Christo, I'm a freaking Jet fan. My team pulled out the stops and moved up to draft a franchise guy--he had a great rookie season, had a better sophmore season and slipped back last year because (i) HE was inconsistent and (ii) his offensive line abandoned him. No excuses, there it is.

    Does he need to improve?

    Ah, yeah. So does every other 3rd year QB in the history of history.

    But the idiotic comparisons to Brady and Rodgers and Eli in their 7th or 8th or 9th or 10th year is f*cking ridiculous.

    And how anyone can objectively say that Sanchez is better than Flacco or Flacco is better than Sanchez is equally ridiculous. If Flacco is your guy, he's your guy--same with Sanchez. There is NOTHING seperating these guys other than the color of their jersey.
    Some of the platitutudes the Sanchez haters are looking for RIGHT NOW are idiotic. The "he was given the best of everything" mantra is JUST as idiotic.

    Yeah, I'm a Jet fan and I'll take Sanchez over Flacco, just as if I was a Raven fan I'd take Flacco over Sanchez. there is an Untouchable or Bambi-Killer or DooshBake right now on RavensInsider killing Flacco.

    I am so sick and tired of hearing the "objective and rational" Jet fans just saying what they see, because they are just as jaded as all the homers.

    You want to call me a homer?

    Fine, I rather be a homer than a self-loathing hater criticizing everything this franchise does.

    Hey, but they're just being objective, right?

    _
    Excellent Post. Perfect.

  4. #184
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    flacco can't carry a team or even make the players around him play better. he's a statue so he really needs his oline to protect him. like sanchez he hasn't been surrounded with lots of wr talent. unlike sanchez he's had better offensive coaches and he also has ray rice.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    Exactly. You seem like a rational/level headed fan JStokes; So I have 3 questions (in regards to Joe Flacco) that I'd like to ask you.

    1.) Would this fan base have supported a quarterback who put up these types of playoff performances during 4 of his first 5 postseason games...

    Dolphins: 9/23, 135 yards, 39.1%, 0 TD's/0 INT's; QB rating of 59.1

    Steelers: 13/30, 141 yards, 43.3%, 0 TD's/3 INT's; QB rating of 18.2 (blew the AFC Championship Game). Ravens lost 23-14.

    Patriots: 4/10, 34 yards, 40.0 %, 0 TD's/1 INT; QB Rating of 10.0.

    Colts: 20/35, 189 yards, 57.1%, 0 TD's/2 INT's; QB rating of 48.4 (Blew his 2nd AFC Championship game in as many years). Ravens lost 20-3.

    Those were Flacco's first 4 (out of 5) postseason starts. Would this fan base (especially this group of posters) have supported those awful performances? Or, would they have attempted to run Joe Flacco out of town, sent him hate mail, burnt his jerseys on game days etc, etc before giving him a chance for success during his 3rd and 4th season? After those 4 crappy playoff performances, this fan base would've never forgiven Flacco and he would have been ran out of town faster than a New York minute. Correct me where I'm wrong.

    2.) Would this fan base support Flacco heading into his 5th season, after putting up these types of numbers during his 4th season as an NFL starting quarterback?

    Flacco's 4th season: 312/542, 57.6%, 3,610 yards, 20 TD's/12 INT's/11 Fumbles; QB Rating of 80.9.

    3.) Would this fan base support Sanchez heading into his 5th season, if he puts up those types of numbers as a 4th year player this up coming season? Not a god damn chance.


    Look at other QB's who like Sanchez got into the playoffs their rookie or 2nd seasons....Flacco was not even close to Sanchez in the post season.....

    Matty ice for all his rave reviews and regular season prowess has **** the bed in the big games.....Imagine if Sanchez had the regular season success Ryan had and then performed like a scared rabbit in the playoffs how the "fans" would be calling for his head.....

    How did the kid from the Bengals fare last year in the playoffs?....Threw has many interceptions in 1 game than Sanchez has thrown in 6 games....

    Sanchez for a rookie and 2nd year QB played very well, you would have to look pretty hard to find a rookie or 2nd year QB who has been better yet his playoff success is pooh-poohed here by some.......
    Last edited by jetsmetsrangers; 07-05-2012 at 06:38 PM.

  6. #186
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    ^^For sure, Sanchez over both Flacco and Ryan

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Here's a better answer, sans statz.

    I'm a Jet fan and I love some of the stuff I've seen out of Sanchez--he needs to get more consistent and cut down on turnovers, but for a young up-and-coming QB--I am thrilled to have him and wouldn't swap him for Flacco ever.

    If I was a Ravens fan--I'd say I love some of the stuff I've seen out of Flacco--he needs to get more consistent and cut down on turnovers, but for a young up-and-coming QB--I am thrilled to have him and wouldn't swap him for Sanchez ever.

    I'm a Jet fan so Sanchez is MY quarterback, thank you very much.

    Some of the sh*t I've heard out of some of these "Jet fans" is laughable.

    But not in that "ha-ha" laughable way.

    In that pitiful laughable way.

    _
    Im a season ticket holder and I watch the away games diligently. I don't care about his stats. Sanchez's inability to survey the entire field is worrisome. Most often, he locks onto one view, right, left or middle of the field and he does not check down or scan the entire field... and I'm NOT talking about the times he's under fierce pressure... this happens when he has ample time... Stokes. Under pressure he moves laterally almost all the time. He rarely steps up into the pocket to avoid the rush the way a seasoned QB does. When he moves laterally, it's too often directly into the arms of an oncoming pass rusher. These horrendous aspects of his game have improved minimally in 3 years. It concerns me that we have the same bad QB coach. It may be Cavanawful's fault. But Mark just has to get better with respect to poise and correct movememnt in the pocket under pressure and he must improve his field vision, if such a thing is even possible. Watch the tapes. Sure the line broke down last year and that made things worse. But even when protected, Sanchez underperformed. I've watched most of the games a second time. His problems are most definitely NOT limited to the failure of the OL. By blaming it all on the OL, you overlook some serious deficiencies in his game. Watch the games again. Watch how poorly he surveys the field when NOT under pressure. Watch how he locks on to one zone when NOT under pressure. I pray this is Schottenheimer's fault, but that's unlikely. Schott didn't have many designed roll outs, which Sanchez does well. I am praying that Sparano can design an offensive scheme that fits Mark's skill set (and he is skilled at certain things) and helps him get over the issues I mention above. One thing for sure... blaming it all on the OL is a cheesy cop out. It ignores too much and isn't accurate.
    Last edited by Dcat; 07-05-2012 at 08:29 PM.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    Im a season ticket holder and I watch the away games diligently. I don't care about his stats. Sanchez's inability to survey the entire field is worrisome.
    Ooohhhhh, so you watch the games "diligently".

    Because none of the rest of us do.

    I actually just put the games on in the background as white noise whilst I'm knitting.

    Are you f*cking kidding me?

    I've been a STH since 2001 and a PSLer now.

    Mark Sanchez does the same thing every young QB in the history of history does.

    Go watch a Lions game.

    Matthew Stafford stares down Megatron as they are getting off the bus, during the national anthem, whilst he's calling the plays and he tells the defenders that he's throwing it to Calvin on every play.

    You Sanchez haters need to get over yourselves and recognize he's no different than EVERY OTHER YOUNG QB in the league.

    Geezus, YOU watch the tapes.



    _

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Ooohhhhh, so you watch the games "diligently".

    Because none of the rest of us do.

    I actually just put the games on in the background as white noise whilst I'm knitting.

    Are you f*cking kidding me?

    I've been a STH since 2001 and a PSLer now.

    Mark Sanchez does the same thing every young QB in the history of history does.

    Go watch a Lions game.

    Matthew Stafford stares down Megatron as they are getting off the bus, during the national anthem, whilst he's calling the plays and he tells the defenders that he's throwing it to Calvin on every play.

    You Sanchez haters need to get over yourselves and recognize he's no different than EVERY OTHER YOUNG QB in the league.

    Geezus, YOU watch the tapes.



    _
    Calm yourself down. I'm far from a Sanchez hater. I never said other young QBs don't have problems. Fock this crap of you putting words in other people's mouths counselor. Others may fall for it but not here. But you have a nasty little habit of doing just that. You also tend to resort to blaming Mark's problems on the OL just a bit too much. Sanchez often struggles and demonstrates the exact same flaws even when the protection does not break down. And your response to that is that other young QBs do the same!? That's like a kid saying "well everyone does it". It doesn't address the problem. Do you believe that the same awful QB Coach can all of a sudden begin to do his job? Did Schottenheimer handcuff Cavanaugh? (That's a possibility I have considered since Cavanaugh was not shiit-canned with the rest of the offensive coaches.) Let's talk about why Sanchez's field vision is no better now than it was in his rookie season. Worse WRs? Perhaps. Maybe he didn't check other parts of the field because he knew Burress was too slow to get open or that Holmes would be quitting on his routes. Maybe Cavanugh just doesn't know his ass from his elbow. I WANT Mark to improve and to succeed. Badly. It would be a disaster for this franchise if Sanchez fails again this season. But his development has been retarded by something. Either very bad coaching, horrible game plans and play designs that don't play to his strengths or he just doesn't have what it takes. We need to see marked (no pun) improvement in year 4 becuase if you think too many people are calling for his head now, just wait.
    Last edited by Dcat; 07-05-2012 at 09:01 PM.

  10. #190
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    At what point is Sanchez not "young"?

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    At what point is Sanchez not "young"?
    Year 4.

    NOW.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    At what point is Sanchez not "young"?
    Did you know he only played one year in college?

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    Did you know he only played one year in college?
    Considering his coach was Pete Carrol, I think only playing one year worked to his benefit.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Considering his coach was Pete Carrol, I think only playing one year worked to his benefit.
    LOL

    But Carroll leaves his offense in the hands of offensive coaches. He's not as hands-off as Rex (no one is), but he's a defensive guy. The one starting season in college has merit as to the level of "youngness" Sanchez had in year one. Carroll said he wasn't ready, and he was right. But after three years, that no longer matters. There should be dramatic improvement this year. "Should". No guarantees.

    We should start a list of Sanchez excuses that people use on this board.

    Youth
    Inexperience
    Bad position coaching (that's my excuse for him, BTW)
    Bad OL
    Bad WR's
    Bad Schottenheimerisms (I use that one too), which includes ignoring Sanchez's strengths and making him run plays not suited to what he can do best.
    Kate Upton
    Mexican Heritage
    His father looking over his shoulder on the field
    Below average height for an NFL QB

    am I missing any....?
    Last edited by Dcat; 07-05-2012 at 10:29 PM.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    LOL

    But Carroll leaves his offense in the hands of offensive coaches. He's not as hands-off as Rex (no one is), but he's a defensive guy. The one starting season in college has merit as to the level of "youngness" Sanchez had in year one. Carroll said he wasn't ready, and he was right. But after three years, that no longer matters. There should be dramatic improvement this year. "Should". No guarantees.

    We should start a list of Sanchez excuses that people use on this board.

    Youth
    Inexperience
    Bad position coaching (that's my excuse for him, BTW)
    Bad OL
    Bad WR's
    Bad Schottenheimerisms (I use that one too), which includes ignoring Sanchez's \trengths and making him run plays not suited to what he can do best.
    Kate Upton
    Mexican Heritage
    His father looking over his shoulder on the field
    Below average height for an NFL QB

    am I missing any....?
    Yes you are. This year is the "first year in a new system". So that will be an excuse.

    The bad OL is a legitimate one. The only thing I wish Sanchez would overcome is that if he gets hit early in a game that he is able to get over it. But in fairness to him, one of the GOAT, Brady is the same way. Other QBs like Eli and Big Ben can take a beating and keep getting up. They won't let it compromise their next throw. I do not think experience helps this. I think you either have it or you don't.

    And IMO his height is an issue. I think he has problems seeing over the OL. Which is why I hope they have him drop back a little deeper. Get some more space to operate and see. I would like to see him get away from the line where he get a lot of balls batted down. His long stride doesn't help things either.

    After 3 years in the NFL I think he is a veteran. 47 regular season starts and 6 playoff starts. The time is now.
    Last edited by DDNYjets; 07-05-2012 at 10:11 PM.

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    At what point is Sanchez not "young"?
    In my eyes, 2012 is his last "young" year

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    Quote Originally Posted by sameoldjets View Post
    flacco can't carry a team or even make the players around him play better. he's a statue so he really needs his oline to protect him. like sanchez he hasn't been surrounded with lots of wr talent. unlike sanchez he's had better offensive coaches and he also has ray rice.
    Are all Jet fans on drugs?
    Anquan Boldin, Torry Smith & Ray Rice? Not surrounded by talent?

    Sanchez had an aging slow mope that just spent 2 years in prison, Shonn Greene who can't catch a cold out of the backfield, LT on his last legs, John Conner who seems to whiff on his blocks at a 50% rate (While Flacco has Vontae Leach, one of the best blocking FBs in the league), with Derek Mason, who Rex had to CUT because of his attitude, and a rookie in the slot!

    So, other than those differences regarding the two QBs everything else is like apples to apples,lol!
    Give me a break!
    You look around the league & see what other QBs were working with compared to Sanchez, it's laughable.
    Hill will be Sanchez much needed binkie over the next 5 years.

  18. #198
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    2011 Flacco

    21 Total TDs 18 Total TOs = +3 TD

    2011 Sanchez

    34 Total TDs 26 Total TOs = +8 TD

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    Are all Jet fans on drugs?
    Anquan Boldin, Torry Smith & Ray Rice? Not surrounded by talent?

    Sanchez had an aging slow mope that just spent 2 years in prison, Shonn Greene who can't catch a cold out of the backfield, LT on his last legs, John Conner who seems to whiff on his blocks at a 50% rate (While Flacco has Vontae Leach, one of the best blocking FBs in the league), with Derek Mason, who Rex had to CUT because of his attitude, and a rookie in the slot!

    So, other than those differences regarding the two QBs everything else is like apples to apples,lol!
    Give me a break!
    You look around the league & see what other QBs were working with compared to Sanchez, it's laughable.
    Hill will be Sanchez much needed binkie over the next 5 years.
    This was my point in the OP.

    Players in the NFL are saying Flacco is elite but are also saying that Sanchez is "over rated." As I stated before Flacco has yet to be demonstrably superior to Sanchez despite him having a better surrounding cast by far. Does anyone think that the better surrounding cast might be the reason why Flacco regular season numbers arre slightly better than those for Sanchez?

    I didn't even make the very important points you make because the counter argument is that Sanchez is no good becuase he doesn't make the "average" players around him into "elite" players.

    When you say neither do 95% of the other QBs in NFL history. Or even a great QB like Brady can't just do this, see Ocho Stinko last year as an example!!!

    The inevitable respsonse is that "the time for excuses is over for Sanchez and his apologist" as if the lack of offensive talent isn't a valid observation for a QB.

    Is Sanchez all wolrd, of course not....

    But is he the bum waste of a pick that people keep silently hoping will fail, no not even close......
    Last edited by Charlie Brown; 07-06-2012 at 12:03 PM.

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    Im a season ticket holder and I watch the away games diligently. I don't care about his stats. Sanchez's inability to survey the entire field is worrisome. Most often, he locks onto one view, right, left or middle of the field and he does not check down or scan the entire field... and I'm NOT talking about the times he's under fierce pressure... this happens when he has ample time... Stokes. Under pressure he moves laterally almost all the time. He rarely steps up into the pocket to avoid the rush the way a seasoned QB does. When he moves laterally, it's too often directly into the arms of an oncoming pass rusher. These horrendous aspects of his game have improved minimally in 3 years. It concerns me that we have the same bad QB coach. It may be Cavanawful's fault. But Mark just has to get better with respect to poise and correct movememnt in the pocket under pressure and he must improve his field vision, if such a thing is even possible. Watch the tapes. Sure the line broke down last year and that made things worse. But even when protected, Sanchez underperformed. I've watched most of the games a second time. His problems are most definitely NOT limited to the failure of the OL. By blaming it all on the OL, you overlook some serious deficiencies in his game. Watch the games again. Watch how poorly he surveys the field when NOT under pressure. Watch how he locks on to one zone when NOT under pressure. I pray this is Schottenheimer's fault, but that's unlikely. Schott didn't have many designed roll outs, which Sanchez does well. I am praying that Sparano can design an offensive scheme that fits Mark's skill set (and he is skilled at certain things) and helps him get over the issues I mention above. One thing for sure... blaming it all on the OL is a cheesy cop out. It ignores too much and isn't accurate.
    You don't know unless you have all 22 film you don't know exactly what was going on. It certainly seems to me that Sanchez had no faith that the receivers would be where he expected them to be and when. Now is that on the receivers or him? I don't know, but just maybe they ought to keep running these plays until the QB and WR are on the same page. If no one is open, and there are no other options, then you end up staring down the receiver waiting for a window to throw in. This would especially be true if you had no time to do a pre snap read of the defense, The formation was tipping the defense off as to the play, and you don't trust the O line. Hopefully Sporano will fix those problems, and we'll keep the defense on their heels instead of ourselves. No more excuses. They might struggle at first, but it should be a lot more clear as to what went wrong, and they should at least look more like they have a purpose out there. By mid season Sanchez should look like he's in full control, and running the show, or I'll agree that it's time to find the next candidate.

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