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Thread: Honest Question is Flacco that much better than Sanchez??

  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASG0531 View Post
    Sanchez is right on target in his development to be elite in 2014. You just need to endure a couple more years of growing pains and multiple Super Bowls will be coming. Just look at Eli, he's a QB who plays in New York and no one believed in him, now he's a champion! That's how every QB in New York plays out if you just give. him. enough. time.
    How is he on target? Explain? He makes the same bad decisions he made in year one. He does not check down well at all. He locks on to one side of the field on most plays. He is not accurate even when there is good protection. He still has not learned how to step up in the pocket in the heat of a pass rush and instead goes sideways into the rush. Bad coaching? sure. Bad play design? absolutely. But those excuses are nothing more than excuses. Hope you're correct that he is "on target" for eliteness. We'll find out this fall. We need him to play better to have any chance at championship. Guys like DWC will defend him with minor stat improvement. Guys like Stokes will defend him by attacking anyone who dares to criticize him. All to no avail. As of this point, he is underperforming and holding the team back.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    I'm with you on this, do I think Sanchez can develop, yes. Granted he needs a lot of work but I don't understand this Jet fan mentality where they HOPE someone fails so they can prove their point?
    Personally, I think Sanchez was more frustrated than any Jet last year & he had the right to be! Tanny left him out to dry with losers like Plax, Mason, a dead legged LT, Hunter, a gimpy Moore & then when Mangold went down he was taking snaps from an UDFA that hadn't played 1 down of NFL football!

    ARE YOU KIDDING ME!
    Sanchez got the snot kicked out of him last year & kept getting off the canvas, I think the Miami game was his breaking point, he couldn't take anymore, he pulled a Roberto Duran & said, "no mas".

    Tom Brady would not have made it through the season had he taken the shots Sanchez endured! Do u honestly think that Brady doesn't get that roughing call in the endzone in Denver on that vicious Von Miller hit?

    Instead of vilifying Sanchez, we should be saying, "holy chit" this young kid played with no line, dogs at wideout, Keller dropping balls left & right, no run game, the crappiest OC in the history of football & took more shots than Kenny OBrien in his worst year & put up 31TDs.
    Only in NY
    Any other City & the fans would be pulling for him bigtime. Instead we have idiot fans posting when they think Tebow will take over, as Charlie Brown says, GOOD GRIEF!
    You don't sound like you watch games diligently.

    You're just making excuses--any objective fan can see the flaws.

    The serious flaws.

    You need someone objective to straighten you out.

    _

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    How is he on target? Explain? He makes the same bad decisions he made in year one. He does not check down well at all. He locks on to one side of the field on most plays. He is not accurate even when there is good protection. He still has not learned how to step up in the pocket in the heat of a pass rush and instead goes sideways into the rush. Bad coaching? sure. Bad play design? absolutely. But those excuses are nothing more than excuses. Hope you're correct that he is "on target" for eliteness. We'll find out this fall. We need him to play better to have any chance at championship. Guys like DWC will defend him with minor stat improvement. Guys like Stokes will defend him by attacking anyone who dares to criticize him. All to no avail. As of this point, he is underperforming and holding the team back.
    Who is attacking you?

    I just agreed you can hate and bash Sanchez all you want, but as long as you're being objective in your mind, that works for me.

    You're totally right, because you're being objective. You're possibly the most objective poster on the board.

    As far as you know.

    _

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    I'm with you on this, do I think Sanchez can develop, yes. Granted he needs a lot of work but I don't understand this Jet fan mentality where they HOPE someone fails so they can prove their point?
    Personally, I think Sanchez was more frustrated than any Jet last year & he had the right to be! Tanny left him out to dry with losers like Plax, Mason, a dead legged LT, Hunter, a gimpy Moore & then when Mangold went down he was taking snaps from an UDFA that hadn't played 1 down of NFL football!

    ARE YOU KIDDING ME!
    Sanchez got the snot kicked out of him last year & kept getting off the canvas, I think the Miami game was his breaking point, he couldn't take anymore, he pulled a Roberto Duran & said, "no mas".

    Tom Brady would not have made it through the season had he taken the shots Sanchez endured! Do u honestly think that Brady doesn't get that roughing call in the endzone in Denver on that vicious Von Miller hit?

    Instead of vilifying Sanchez, we should be saying, "holy chit" this young kid played with no line, dogs at wideout, Keller dropping balls left & right, no run game, the crappiest OC in the history of football & took more shots than Kenny OBrien in his worst year & put up 31TDs.
    Only in NY
    Any other City & the fans would be pulling for him bigtime. Instead we have idiot fans posting when they think Tebow will take over, as Charlie Brown says, GOOD GRIEF!



    I guess it only takes a few years to erase memories of a horrible OLine getting Chad injured for the season all the time. For the quality hits that Sanchez took, meaning the kind that get you injured, he kept getting up and taking the beating. And then he gets to hear about how bad he sucks. LOL. Must suck to be him sometimes.

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    How is he on target? Explain? He makes the same bad decisions he made in year one. He does not check down well at all. He locks on to one side of the field on most plays. He is not accurate even when there is good protection. He still has not learned how to step up in the pocket in the heat of a pass rush and instead goes sideways into the rush. Bad coaching? sure. Bad play design? absolutely. But those excuses are nothing more than excuses. Hope you're correct that he is "on target" for eliteness. We'll find out this fall. We need him to play better to have any chance at championship. Guys like DWC will defend him with minor stat improvement. Guys like Stokes will defend him by attacking anyone who dares to criticize him. All to no avail. As of this point, he is underperforming and holding the team back.
    I'll give Sanchez this excuse for last season: It wasn't just his fault.

    On the positive - he still managed 26 TDs (+6 more rushing).

    On the negative - turnovers/bad decisions/inaccuracy.

    The biggest excuse for him is the "pulse" of the team. He's got to make it his team, and they have to play like they played against New England in the playoffs in 2010. They have the potential to be a great team, but they take plays (and games) off.

    The team has to be resilient, and they are for the most part. I'm hoping last year was the aberration.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Why so angry? You can hate Sanchez all you want and bash him as much as you want, but as long as you couch your criticism in terms of being "objective" we're cool.

    I get it, you're just being objective.
    Implying that criticism and objectivity are mutually eclusive shows you don't get it. Where in the fine print does it say objectivity precludes criticism? Or is that just in your world?

    So, what QB you looking at drafting in the first round next year?

    Objectively speaking, of course.

    _
    I would prefer we draft other positions of need. If we need to go QB in round 1, it will suck and it will mean that Sanchez still can't perform as needed despite a new offense. That would royally suck. As for hating Sanchez, nice try Stokes. You know I don't hate him and want him to succeed. I've already posted that multiple times, so go ahead and bait since you seem to enjoy it so much. Whatever floats your rubber duckie.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    On the negative - turnovers/bad decisions/inaccuracy.
    No time to throw the ball. No one open. Played injured all season as evidenced by his constant shoulder tugging and the information that he was looking at possibly getting surgery on his shoulder.

    I don't care who you are, if you have an injured throwing shoulder you aren't going to be accurate. Simple as that. He got blasted all year. That will rattle a QB.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    I'll give Sanchez this excuse for last season: It wasn't just his fault.

    On the positive - he still managed 26 TDs (+6 more rushing).

    On the negative - turnovers/bad decisions/inaccuracy.

    The biggest excuse for him is the "pulse" of the team. He's got to make it his team, and they have to play like they played against New England in the playoffs in 2010. They have the potential to be a great team, but they take plays (and games) off.

    The team has to be resilient, and they are for the most part. I'm hoping last year was the aberration.
    me too. Glad Burress is gone. People point the finger at Holmes, but I believe Burress was the quiet saboteur, egging Holmes on. I also think that Schittyheimer never was a figure of authority for this offense. He let the inmates run amok. I've got a good feeling Sparano won't tolerate that. And now without his ex-con accomplice, Holmes has seemed to already step into the role of overseeing the young WRs in a positive way. I'm hopeful it can last.

  9. #229
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    I can say with 100% certainty that Dcat is not a Sanchez hater. I would actually label him as an "apologist".

    I can remember more than a few times when we got into some Sanchez discussions last year and he defended him diligently.

    But to no avail b.c I was right.


  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    me too. Glad Burress is gone. People point the finger at Holmes, but I believe Burress was the quiet saboteur, egging Holmes on. I also think that Schittyheimer never was a figure of authority for this offense. He let the inmates run amok. I've got a good feeling Sparano won't tolerate that. And now without his ex-con accomplice, Holmes has seemed to already step into the role of overseeing the young WRs in a positive way. I'm hopeful it can last.
    No way. Holmes is a loser. His antics show as much. He quit on his team. No one likes him. He's an ahole. He gets ZERO excuses for his behavior. If anything Burress was on his Ps and Qs considering he JUST got out of PRISON!

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    You don't sound like you watch games diligently.

    You're just making excuses--any objective fan can see the flaws.

    The serious flaws.

    You need someone objective to straighten you out.

    _
    This made me laugh out loud!

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post



    I guess it only takes a few years to erase memories of a horrible OLine getting Chad injured for the season all the time. For the quality hits that Sanchez took, meaning the kind that get you injured, he kept getting up and taking the beating. And then he gets to hear about how bad he sucks. LOL. Must suck to be him sometimes.
    Sanchez is definitely a tough dude. He got back in the game after some ferocious hits. But hisa accuracy was way off. No one is saying he doesn't need better protection. Of course he does.

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    me too. Glad Burress is gone. People point the finger at Holmes, but I believe Burress was the quiet saboteur, egging Holmes on. I also think that Schittyheimer never was a figure of authority for this offense. He let the inmates run amok. I've got a good feeling Sparano won't tolerate that. And now without his ex-con accomplice, Holmes has seemed to already step into the role of overseeing the young WRs in a positive way. I'm hopeful it can last.
    I agree about Burress. Plus, Burress' play actually handicapped the Jets on offense. In almost every game, he was single covered. Man on Burress, zone for everyone else. He couldn't out run my brother ().

    I'm excited for this season. I honestly believe the defense will play well, and the offense will be improved.

    I hope I'm right. I didn't believe this last year. I was right then, too.

  14. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    I'll give Sanchez this excuse for last season: It wasn't just his fault.

    On the positive - he still managed 26 TDs (+6 more rushing).

    On the negative - turnovers/bad decisions/inaccuracy.

    The biggest excuse for him is the "pulse" of the team. He's got to make it his team, and they have to play like they played against New England in the playoffs in 2010. They have the potential to be a great team, but they take plays (and games) off.

    The team has to be resilient, and they are for the most part. I'm hoping last year was the aberration.
    The turnovers are it in a nutshell. There is no doubt in my mind that if Sanchez just gets a little better on his checkdowns, lets all remember, unlike Flacco who has RAY FREAKING RICE to check down to Sanchez has stone hands Greene.
    Jets defense with no TOs from the offense will equal playoffs, simple as that!
    We were 8-8 last year & Sanchez had almost 30 TOs, many pick 6s.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    How is he on target? Explain? He makes the same bad decisions he made in year one. He does not check down well at all. He locks on to one side of the field on most plays. He is not accurate even when there is good protection. He still has not learned how to step up in the pocket in the heat of a pass rush and instead goes sideways into the rush. Bad coaching? sure. Bad play design? absolutely. But those excuses are nothing more than excuses. Hope you're correct that he is "on target" for eliteness. We'll find out this fall. We need him to play better to have any chance at championship. Guys like DWC will defend him with minor stat improvement. Guys like Stokes will defend him by attacking anyone who dares to criticize him. All to no avail. As of this point, he is underperforming and holding the team back.

    Oops, sorry, I guess I suck at sarcasm... sorry for the carnage that followed.

    Most of your criticism of Sanchez is specific and spot-on... he's going to have to fix just about every area you mentioned before he becomes a top quarterback in the league, it's all very valid criticism and it's not necessarily incompatible with what Stokes says.

    I said in another thread that it doesn't really matter anymore, the debate is over. Schotty is gone, Sanchez has an offense that is working around him and his strengths, and he has more freedom to audible at the line of scrimmage and make throwing decisions post-snap. He will either succeed or he won't, all of the excuses are over.
    Last edited by ASG0531; 07-06-2012 at 04:02 PM.

  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    The turnovers are it in a nutshell. There is no doubt in my mind that if Sanchez just gets a little better on his checkdowns, lets all remember, unlike Flacco who has RAY FREAKING RICE to check down to Sanchez has stone hands Greene.
    Jets defense with no TOs from the offense will equal playoffs, simple as that!
    We were 8-8 last year & Sanchez had almost 30 TOs, many pick 6s.
    78, 63, and 76

    The number of receptions that Ray Rice has had for the last 3 years (on 9 ypc). One of the best receiving backs in the NFL, he helps Flacco's stat line quite a bit. He's also averaging 4.6 ypc for his career, so it's not like the defense can read run or pass based on whether he's in the game or not (something that's been very easy to do against us: Greene = run, Tomlinson = pass...especially in '11).

  17. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    No way. Holmes is a loser. His antics show as much. He quit on his team. No one likes him. He's an ahole. He gets ZERO excuses for his behavior. If anything Burress was on his Ps and Qs considering he JUST got out of PRISON!
    Burress and Mason were evil forces in that locker room just like Holmes. He was the more insidious of the two. Holmes wasn't as bad the year before and hopefully won't be as bad this season and every indication is that it will be better.

  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    No time to throw the ball. No one open. Played injured all season as evidenced by his constant shoulder tugging and the information that he was looking at possibly getting surgery on his shoulder.

    I don't care who you are, if you have an injured throwing shoulder you aren't going to be accurate. Simple as that. He got blasted all year. That will rattle a QB.
    This is not a valid excuse, not for someone with the years and years of experience Sanchez has.

    Real franchise QBs aren't effected by a porous O-line and getting killed, even very young ones.

    Look how Rodgers shredded the Giants when he was getting killed, and Rodgers has had less time in the league than Sanchez. And a furious pass rush doesn't effect a pup like Brady--look at his last two SB championships over the Giants. With less experience than Sanchez.

    Bottom line, if Sanchez had even a servicable RT last year, the Jets are 10-6 minimum and in the playoffs AGAIN and the objective haters would have to find something else to be objective about.

    _

  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1089 View Post
    78, 63, and 76

    The number of receptions that Ray Rice has had for the last 3 years (on 9 ypc). One of the best receiving backs in the NFL, he helps Flacco's stat line quite a bit. He's also averaging 4.6 ypc for his career, so it's not like the defense can read run or pass based on whether he's in the game or not (something that's been very easy to do against us: Greene = run, Tomlinson = pass...especially in '11).
    Wow.... wow! I knew he was good but my god, after seeing those receiving #s anyone that doesn't think after 3 years Sanchez numbers would easily beat out Flaccos had he had Ray Rice in the backfield is dreaming.
    That is the perfect example of why you can't stack up stats head to head.
    Plus, how many times in those 76 receptions in 2011 did Rice make someone miss & get a bunch of YAC to pad Flaccos stats?

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    No time to throw the ball. No one open. Played injured all season as evidenced by his constant shoulder tugging and the information that he was looking at possibly getting surgery on his shoulder.

    I don't care who you are, if you have an injured throwing shoulder you aren't going to be accurate. Simple as that. He got blasted all year. That will rattle a QB.
    wait. Injured shoulder? Not much discussion of that around here or in the press. Link? Is this a legit excuse or just another to add to the #6 excuse list?

    No one open - Burress could never get open. Slow as sh!t. Holmes doesn't separate well either and he gave up on more than a few plays.. and Keller was Sanchez's most reliable target. Not good for Mark. Mason was even worse. On the other hand, there were lots of plays where Holmes was open and Sanchez didn't go to him. We were screaming at it from the stands. Instead, Mark tried to force it to a tightly covered Keller or a plodding Burress who was also covered. It was a combo of bad WRs and bad decisions. It's not an all or nothing thing.

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