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Thread: Honest Question is Flacco that much better than Sanchez??

  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    Burress and Mason were evil forces in that locker room just like Holmes. He was the more insidious of the two. Holmes wasn't as bad the year before and hopefully won't be as bad this season and every indication is that it will be better.
    I bet you Holmes plays "big brother" to Hill.

  2. #242
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    Can someone please explain to me the difference between the 2009/2010 seasons and the 2011 season?

    Sanchez had a very nice rookie season for a guy thrown into the mix with very little experience. Some great games, some awful games, but on the whole I think a decent year by historical standards for first year starters.

    His second year was better by any standards.

    Better.

    A nice upward trend.

    He fell off miserably last year.

    Why?

    Did he all of a sudden start to suck?

    No, go look at the FIRST DAMN PLAY of the season last year.

    Screw Schotty, screw Cavanaugh, screw no Braylon, screw no Cotch, screw Burress, screw Holmes being a dick, screw Mason, screw Rex not caring about the offense.

    It was the offensive line. Period. After he got killed in the Baltimore game he was shell-shocked.

    Give him a modicum of protection and he'll be a 60+% passer with fewer turnovers than last year and similar TD production, more yardage.

    And the playoffs.

    Again.

    Sorry if that's not objective enough for the "truly objective", but that's the truth.

    _

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    I can say with 100% certainty that Dcat is not a Sanchez hater. I would actually label him as an "apologist".

    I can remember more than a few times when we got into some Sanchez discussions last year and he defended him diligently.

    But to no avail b.c I was right.

    Objectively too! My defense of Sanchez was much better than the obvioulsy biased one provided by Stokes. If you're going to defend your QB, you need to do it the right way. That's where Stokes goes wrong.

    Seriously, I view myself as neither a Sanchez hater nor a Sanchez apologist. Around these parts, if you're not extreme one way or the other, you get hammered from both sides. Sanchez has got some major issues to work on. Despite all the claims to the contrary, his field vision is narrow and limited and his decision making can be atrocious. Still, the Jets put him in an awful position with an overly complicated playbook that didn't play to Mark's strengths. No designed roll outs, not enough play action, etc. A disengaged and unmotivated collection of WRs. Mason and Burress only fueled the fire and made Holmes even worse. And of course the OL. Brick had a bad year. Hunter was awful and the Mangold injury early on just made it all so much worse. But you know... good QBs persevere. I don't think much of Jay Cutler, but frankly his line was worse, he was hammered as hard as Sanchez had a bad set of WRs, yet he led the team and was more productive last season. A top QB gets through this, and Cutler is far from being a top QB. Let's see how Mark handles it this year.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    me too. Glad Burress is gone. People point the finger at Holmes, but I believe Burress was the quiet saboteur, egging Holmes on. I also think that Schittyheimer never was a figure of authority for this offense. He let the inmates run amok. I've got a good feeling Sparano won't tolerate that. And now without his ex-con accomplice, Holmes has seemed to already step into the role of overseeing the young WRs in a positive way. I'm hopeful it can last.
    You want to believe. Don't give up. Just remember that you can really look nervous out there if you aren't prepared. We make a lot of great QBs look that way. Brady looked that way in the playoffs a couple years ago. If Sporano does anything, he'll make sure everyone knows what they're doing out there, and we'll be putting pressure on the defenses to get ready. He's already pushed them in OTAs. Just give it a chance. I'll bet iot'll be night and day different.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Can someone please explain to me the difference between the 2009/2010 seasons and the 2011 season?

    Sanchez had a very nice rookie season for a guy thrown into the mix with very little experience. Some great games, some awful games, but on the whole I think a decent year by historical standards for first year starters.

    His second year was better by any standards.

    Better.

    A nice upward trend.

    He fell off miserably last year.

    Why?

    Did he all of a sudden start to suck?

    No, go look at the FIRST DAMN PLAY of the season last year.

    Screw Schotty, screw Cavanaugh, screw no Braylon, screw no Cotch, screw Burress, screw Holmes being a dick, screw Mason, screw Rex not caring about the offense.

    It was the offensive line. Period. After he got killed in the Baltimore game he was shell-shocked.

    Give him a modicum of protection and he'll be a 60+% passer with fewer turnovers than last year and similar TD production, more yardage.

    And the playoffs.

    Again.

    Sorry if that's not objective enough for the "truly objective", but that's the truth.

    _
    Actually, it is objective. And a bit more rationally stated. No one disagrees with that. I was pleased after Sanchez's rookie season. For his level of experience, he did fine. I hoped to see a lot more development in year 2 than we did, but, as I said before, I attribute that to horrendous coaching. Face it, the Jets just don't do a great job developing talent. In 2011, the odds were stacked against him last season with a far worse group of WRs and ineffective OL (Brick had his worst season since his rookie year - WTF?). But with that said, Mark played poorly in his own right. Even when protected he acted like he wasn't. You can call it shell shocked, but a solid QB just can't do that. He has to recognize when the protection breaks down and when it doesn't. And there he failed. And when the protection breaks down, step forward at least sometimes, not always sideways. You buy a lot of time moving forward, see the field more clearly from all angles and targets can get open. Sanchez needs to work on this. He demonstrates below average ability with this. I blame the coaches for not working on this enough. If it's not the coaches' fault for not helping him improve but rather Mark's inability to change, then Mark will have problems with this for his career.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    You want to believe. Don't give up. Just remember that you can really look nervous out there if you aren't prepared. We make a lot of great QBs look that way. Brady looked that way in the playoffs a couple years ago. If Sporano does anything, he'll make sure everyone knows what they're doing out there, and we'll be putting pressure on the defenses to get ready. He's already pushed them in OTAs. Just give it a chance. I'll bet iot'll be night and day different.
    SpArano will have the offense prepared. His teams are always prepared AND disciplined. In Miami, he just lacked all around talent.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    wait. Injured shoulder? Not much discussion of that around here or in the press. Link? Is this a legit excuse or just another to add to the #6 excuse list?

    No one open - Burress could never get open. Slow as sh!t. Holmes doesn't separate well either and he gave up on more than a few plays.. and Keller was Sanchez's most reliable target. Not good for Mark. Mason was even worse. On the other hand, there were lots of plays where Holmes was open and Sanchez didn't go to him. We were screaming at it from the stands. Instead, Mark tried to force it to a tightly covered Keller or a plodding Burress who was also covered. It was a combo of bad WRs and bad decisions. It's not an all or nothing thing.
    You can google it if you want. He opted for a rest and rehab instead of surgery. However the tone of your response is quite rude. Suggesting that Im making up bullsht when you are the one that is missing the facts. I can see why Stokes put you in your place. As regards your talk of the WRs, if anything you are giving case to why Sanchez would have suffered from accuracy problems. Btw, how many INTs and Fumbles did Mark have the final 6 weeks of the season while he was injured? I bet that was the bulk of the turnovers.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/jetsbl...8mxCcC77GyWc7N

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    You can google it if you want. He opted for a rest and rehab instead of surgery. However the tone of your response is quite rude. Suggesting that Im making up bullsht when you are the one that is missing the facts. I can see why Stokes put you in your place. As regards your talk of the WRs, if anything you are giving case to why Sanchez would have suffered from accuracy problems. Btw, how many INTs and Fumbles did Mark have the final 6 weeks of the season while he was injured? I bet that was the bulk of the turnovers.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/jetsbl...8mxCcC77GyWc7N
    Jayzuz, he's just being OBJECTIVE.

    You can throw any sh*t out there that you want--any criticism that's true for every 3rd year QB in the history of the league, but it's only Sanchez that is holding his team back.

    All those other 3rd year QBs were just going through the normal ups and downs all 3rd year QBs go through, with all the normal 3rd year issues.

    But Sanchez?

    Major flaws. Major issues. Not progressing, holding the team back. And anything that might mitigate any of those issues is just an excuse.

    He's just being objective, he's totally not a hater and totally not bashing Sanchez.

    He even said so.

    _

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Jayzuz, he's just being OBJECTIVE.

    You can throw any sh*t out there that you want--any criticism that's true for every 3rd year QB in the history of the league, but it's only Sanchez that is holding his team back.

    All those other 3rd year QBs were just going through the normal ups and downs all 3rd year QBs go through, with all the normal 3rd year issues.

    But Sanchez?

    Major flaws. Major issues. Not progressing, holding the team back. And anything that might mitigate any of those issues is just an excuse.

    He's just being objective, he's totally not a hater and totally not bashing Sanchez.

    He even said so.

    _
    LMAO.

  10. #250
    All I know is that I like rootig for Sanchez and the Jets. Some people dont feel the same way I suppose.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    All I know is that I like rootig for Sanchez and the Jets. Some people dont feel the same way I suppose.
    +1

    Go Mark. Go Jets.

    Go anyone who wears the uniform and plays his heart out.

  12. #252
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    I think the majority of mistakes made by Sanchez were not due to him being an inaccurate passer, on the whole he has demonstrated otherwise on many occasions, a zebra usually doesn't lose it's stripes. God help us if I'm wrong.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    You can google it if you want. He opted for a rest and rehab instead of surgery. However the tone of your response is quite rude. Suggesting that Im making up bullsht when you are the one that is missing the facts. I can see why Stokes put you in your place. As regards your talk of the WRs, if anything you are giving case to why Sanchez would have suffered from accuracy problems. Btw, how many INTs and Fumbles did Mark have the final 6 weeks of the season while he was injured? I bet that was the bulk of the turnovers.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/jetsbl...8mxCcC77GyWc7N
    Not trying to be rude, and certainly not implying you fabricated it, but I imagine if his shoulder were bad enough to consider surgery there should have been tons of diuscussion not only here but in the media. I would also imagine that those who make excuses for Sanchez constantly would play the card repeatedly. Surprised they haven't. I know Sanchez was pretty beat up, but didn't know there was a diagnosed injury. And LOL about Stokes. Seriously. If that's what you call "putting in one's place", then it sure doesn't take much. Just an overdose of sarcasm and snarkiness. Too funny.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Jayzuz, he's just being OBJECTIVE.

    You can throw any sh*t out there that you want--any criticism that's true for every 3rd year QB in the history of the league, but it's only Sanchez that is holding his team back.

    All those other 3rd year QBs were just going through the normal ups and downs all 3rd year QBs go through, with all the normal 3rd year issues.

    But Sanchez?

    Major flaws. Major issues. Not progressing, holding the team back. And anything that might mitigate any of those issues is just an excuse.

    He's just being objective, he's totally not a hater and totally not bashing Sanchez.

    He even said so.

    _
    So you really think that Sanchez doesn't have serious flaws to his game? Is that your belief? For real?

    BTW, why does thinking Sanchez has some big issues make one a "hater"? Why do you prersist in setting up this false dichotomy? Can you acknowledge that one can recognize the problems with Sanchez or at least perceive that he has some big issues and yet still be a fan, not a hater, and still want him to have success? Why with you is it either Stokes' way or be a "hater"? You are being absurd dude.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    Not trying to be rude, and certainly not implying you fabricated it, but I imagine if his shoulder were bad enough to consider surgery there should have been tons of diuscussion not only here but in the media. I would also imagine that those who make excuses for Sanchez constantly would play the card repeatedly. Surprised they haven't. I know Sanchez was pretty beat up, but didn't know there was a diagnosed injury. And LOL about Stokes. Seriously. If that's what you call "putting in one's place", then it sure doesn't take much. Just an overdose of sarcasm and snarkiness. Too funny.

    You have your article. He was injured and had garbage for wideouts. Coaching was pathetic, shortened offseason due to the lockout with many new pieces. TE played like farts. OLine was garbage. No run game bc of it. Sanchez has legitimate excuses. He hasnt made any though and he takes all the blame, puts his head down and goes to work. You might not like him but I do. Im rooting for him. Its better than buying someone elses guy (Manning, Brees). I cant wait for the season. He will prove himself one way or the other.

  16. #256
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    GO MARK

    GO JETS

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    All I know is that I like rootig for Sanchez and the Jets. Some people dont feel the same way I suppose.
    So do I Southside. So do I. I am a fan. I've been rooting for this team for 46 years. I root for Sanchez to succeed each and every week. I bought my sons #6 jerseys to wear. I thought the F.O. was sabotaged Sanchez by bringing in Tebow. Yet I am willing to call it like I see it, when it comes to his performance on the field. And doing so seems to really upset guys like Stokes for some reason. Pointing out what many perceive as problems doesn't necessarily mean they are "haters" and "rooting against him". Do you agree? Stokes is providing an object lesson in setting up a false dichotomy with this. Not sure what purpose there is in doing so, but that's exactly what he is doing in his own overly sarcastic way. It seems to make him happy, so why the fock not, I guess. So much for reasonable discussion. I just don't get how anyone could argue that Sanchez wasn't a major contributor to last year's team failures. He wasn't the only one -- I never said that -- but he played a big part.

  18. #258
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    the past is the past

    Mark in 2012 has been freed from having to carry the 400 pound weight of Schottenheimer playcalling into the huddle with him on every offensive snap

    and that is a MAJOR IMPROVEMENT in his and in every NY Jet offensive player's game

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    the past is the past

    Mark in 2012 has been freed from having to carry the 400 pound weight of Schottenheimer playcalling into the huddle with him on every offensive snap

    and that is a MAJOR IMPROVEMENT in his and in every NY Jet offensive player's game
    +1 w/regard to the moron Schottenheimer who could never adjust to the talent on the field. Good riddance and my condolences to the good people in St. Louis.

    Still concerned about Mark and his OL though.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    So do I Southside. So do I. I am a fan. I've been rooting for this team for 46 years. I root for Sanchez to succeed each and every week. I bought my sons #6 jerseys to wear. I thought the F.O. was sabotaged Sanchez by bringing in Tebow. Yet I am willing to call it like I see it, when it comes to his performance on the field. And doing so seems to really upset guys like Stokes for some reason. Pointing out what many perceive as problems doesn't necessarily mean they are "haters" and "rooting against him". Do you agree? Stokes is providing an object lesson in setting up a false dichotomy with this. Not sure what purpose there is in doing so, but that's exactly what he is doing in his own overly sarcastic way. It seems to make him happy, so why the fock not, I guess. So much for reasonable discussion. I just don't get how anyone could argue that Sanchez wasn't a major contributor to last year's team failures. He wasn't the only one -- I never said that -- but he played a big part.
    Mark needs to play better. He knows that. He admits that. I believe he will get better bc of his work ethic and bc he has gotten better each year. I wont speak for Stokes, but my problem is with the unfair expectations, the overly criticalness, and the absolute judgements that Mark is a bust. I dont see it and I dont think its fair. He isnt there yet, but he is getting there and he is a gamer. You cant teach that. He has IT. Flacco, Ryan, Freeman, Stafford, Schaub, etc... Those guys dont have IT. Its hard to explain, but with the right coaching Mark has a great chance at being a top QB in this league. He isnt Drew Brees, but there is more than 1 way to get it done. I feel you though. Not questioning your passion. Just saying for me, I like the kid and I want him to succeed. Its better for us as the guy we drafted and watched grow...just means more to me. But make no mistake I curse him come gametime for dumb decisions too.
    Last edited by southside; 07-06-2012 at 06:44 PM.

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