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Thread: Don't think we should have stuck with Eric Smith, Calvin Pace & Bart Scott this year

  1. #1

    Don't think we should have stuck with Eric Smith, Calvin Pace & Bart Scott this year

    Not sure if we had a choice in the matter and if there was anything else we could have done but these are 3 guys who we should have moved on from at all cost and went both younger, faster, and on Pace's side more explosive. Bart being a liability in coverage is expected but last year he was so slow getting off blocks and literally lacked any play making ability we're used to seeing from him especially on running plays. Eric Smith ... well he's the dumb elephant in the room that nobody seems to be talking about. The weak spot in our defense and he's supposed to control the back-line of the D and he's terrible at that job. I honestly thought we'd move on from all 3 of these guys at all cost and no matter what it cost us but I still think we could have improved defensively and getting rid of all of these guys would have helped.

    I know Pace has his defenders on here but he's supposed to be a playmaker and he's payed to be one and he makes a playmaker type play that stands out maybe once every 3 games. He has 1 game in a season where he dominates frequently in spurts throughout the game. 2 years ago it was the Bengals game, last year I think it was one of the buffalo games. He's a guy we really should just separate from and try to get some young blood there to help especially with some speed off the edge. Pace is slow as hell ... Lets hope these guys don't slow our defense down and keep it from being GREAT. Our defense is VERY good but I'd like it to be great and these 3 guys for me are key components that hold us back IMO.

  2. #2
    Cap hit would be too great. Next year will be the time to cut pace and scott. Plus these are two starters - sure they maybe be just average but who can we realistically get to replace them.

    And with eric smith, sure he's not starter material but with our super questionable safety depth, it will help to have a guy whos knows the playbook

  3. #3
    there is such a thing as a salary cap in the NFL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LadainianIMnotDONE View Post
    Not sure if we had a choice in the matter and if there was anything else we could have done but these are 3 guys who we should have moved on from at all cost and went both younger, faster, and on Pace's side more explosive. Bart being a liability in coverage is expected but last year he was so slow getting off blocks and literally lacked any play making ability we're used to seeing from him especially on running plays. Eric Smith ... well he's the dumb elephant in the room that nobody seems to be talking about. The weak spot in our defense and he's supposed to control the back-line of the D and he's terrible at that job. I honestly thought we'd move on from all 3 of these guys at all cost and no matter what it cost us but I still think we could have improved defensively and getting rid of all of these guys would have helped.

    I know Pace has his defenders on here but he's supposed to be a playmaker and he's payed to be one and he makes a playmaker type play that stands out maybe once every 3 games. He has 1 game in a season where he dominates frequently in spurts throughout the game. 2 years ago it was the Bengals game, last year I think it was one of the buffalo games. He's a guy we really should just separate from and try to get some young blood there to help especially with some speed off the edge. Pace is slow as hell ... Lets hope these guys don't slow our defense down and keep it from being GREAT. Our defense is VERY good but I'd like it to be great and these 3 guys for me are key components that hold us back IMO.
    With all due respect LadainianIMnotDONE, we haven't "just stuck" with Smith, Scott and Pace. We've added both LaRon Landry and Yeremiah Bell. One of those two will provide strong upgrades over Eric Smith. Eric Smith may not be an NFL starter at the Safety position, but he can be used as a 5th LB in obvious running situations (being used as a situational backup).

    In regards to Bart Scott, sure, he could've been quicker last season with a little more speed (which is why he's lost some dead weight during 2012's offseason) but that's not his job duty ala being a speedster inside middle linebacker. His job, as a 3-4 IMLB, is to take up the blocks for our LB's such as David Harris along with our Safety's in order for our defense to make plays. He plugs the holes. He does all the ugly work that's always gone unnoticed. He's only 31 years of age, which means that yes, he's getting up there; but some Jet fans are making Bart Scott out to be an IMLB who's playing on his last wheels. Which isn't the case. He's a young mans 31, especially considering the fact that he never started until his 4th season. He still put up 65 tackles to go along with 4.5 sacks last year.

    It's not like we haven't addressed our lack of quickness/speed at IMLB either. We just drafted Demario Davis during the 3rd round, a kid who has freakish athletic ability. His development as a rookie could become pivotal to our defensive success. If he's able to spell Bart Scott as our 3rd IMLB, Scott could end up having a very solid/healthy season. Davis, depending on his ability to impact/develop, could possibly man down our MLB position when switching to/running a 4-3 defense. We all know neither Harris nor Scott have the sideline to sideline speed/quickness to cause havoc as an MLB inside of a 4-3 scheme. Demario Davis just might.

    Demario Davis just ran a 4.61 forty. Which was fast enough to rank 4th amongst linebackers coming out of this years draft class. We all asked for speed at the IMLB position last season, we drafted just that in Demario Davis. Kid has more than just speed too, he also has bruit strength. Davis put up 32 bench reps. Which was good enough to rank 2nd amongst linebackers coming out of this years draft class. He's more than just speed and power as well, he's also very athletic. Davis (at the NFL combine) ranked 2nd out of all linebackers in vertical jumping ability, measured out at 38.5''. Outside of the WR position, his vertical jump was good enough to land 5th place of all players coming out. Davis also posted a 10'4'' broad jump as well. Good enough to place 2nd amongst all linebackers coming out. Both Aaron Maybin and Demario Davis can provide our front 7 with the type of speed that we've needed for a couple of years now. Bart Scott shouldn't be a concern.

    Just to give a comparison in regards to his athletic ability coming out of college?

    Vilma ran a 4.65, 37 inch vert, 23 bench reps, 6.67 three cone drill, 4.20 short shuttle and posted a 10 foot 1 inch broad jump coming out of college.

    Davis ran a 4.61, 38.5 inch vert, 32 bench reps, 7.19 three cone drill, 4.28 short shuttle and posted a 10 foot 4 inch broad jump heading into the draft.

    Not bad.

    Last but not least; Calvin Pace. Pace had a very underrated season with the Jets last season. 72 tackles, 4.5 sacks to go along with 3 forced fumbles. Regardless of what we say about Calvin Pace, he's been a key defensive player on 3 consecutive top 5 NFL defenses. With the deepest/strongest defensive line we've had in quite some time? I'm expecting Pace to put up double digit sack numbers. At least 7-8. Aaron Maybin causing havoc on the other side should help Pace as well. Last year? Wilkerson was a rookie, Ellis was a raw rookie who rarely seen the field. DeVito went down and missed 4 games. With Wilkerson no longer being a rookie, Ellis not having to worry about legal issues as a 2nd year player, DeVito returning from injury along with the drafting of what seems to be a beastly 3-4 defensive end in Quinton Coples? Pace could end up putting up very solid numbers/strong production. Defensive lineman are very important to an outside pass rushers success, especially when running a 3-4 defense. I'm actually anxious to see Pace take the field with a (could be) powerful defensive front.
    Last edited by NY2FLDWC85; 07-04-2012 at 10:41 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtstar View Post
    there is such a thing as a salary cap in the NFL.
    There you go. Answers.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadainianIMnotDONE View Post
    Not sure if we had a choice in the matter and if there was anything else we could have done but these are 3 guys who we should have moved on from at all cost and went both younger, faster, and on Pace's side more explosive. Bart being a liability in coverage is expected but last year he was so slow getting off blocks and literally lacked any play making ability we're used to seeing from him especially on running plays. Eric Smith ... well he's the dumb elephant in the room that nobody seems to be talking about. The weak spot in our defense and he's supposed to control the back-line of the D and he's terrible at that job. I honestly thought we'd move on from all 3 of these guys at all cost and no matter what it cost us but I still think we could have improved defensively and getting rid of all of these guys would have helped.

    I know Pace has his defenders on here but he's supposed to be a playmaker and he's payed to be one and he makes a playmaker type play that stands out maybe once every 3 games. He has 1 game in a season where he dominates frequently in spurts throughout the game. 2 years ago it was the Bengals game, last year I think it was one of the buffalo games. He's a guy we really should just separate from and try to get some young blood there to help especially with some speed off the edge. Pace is slow as hell ... Lets hope these guys don't slow our defense down and keep it from being GREAT. Our defense is VERY good but I'd like it to be great and these 3 guys for me are key components that hold us back IMO.
    Reading your post makes me feel like this....


  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dmitexxi View Post
    Reading your post makes me feel like this....
    The best part is when he first smiles.

  8. #8
    Like it or not the Jets really like Eric Smith as a 3rd safety, hes a good ST player and they feel like hes a smart player. He played injured last season so that might have hurt him some, we can't forget that he played great in the 2010 playoffs starting.

    Pace and Scott the Jets are stuck with for this season, they lose money by releasing them. But this in all likely hood will be their last season with the Jets.

    They save $7.2 mil by releasing Scott and $8.6 mil by releasing Pace after the season.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by k.Rhodes25 View Post
    Like it or not the Jets really like Eric Smith as a 3rd safety, hes a good ST player and they feel like hes a smart player. He played injured last season so that might have hurt him some, we can't forget that he played great in the 2010 playoffs starting.

    Pace and Scott the Jets are stuck with for this season, they lose money by releasing them. But this in all likely hood will be their last season with the Jets.

    They save $7.2 mil by releasing Scott and $8.6 mil by releasing Pace after the season.
    Each?

  10. #10
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    Um they know the defense? what is wrong with you. you cant get rid of everyone.

    Reason your dumb number 1. We need a safety that knows the defense.
    Reason your dumb number 2. Your dumb.
    Reason your dumb number 3. Calvin Pace is the best all around OLB we have..

    DO SOME HOMEWORK Schmuck.

  11. #11
    Salary cap/reality LOL

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    Each?
    Yes. Say goodbye to both after this season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    With all due respect LadainianIMnotDONE, we haven't "just stuck" with Smith, Scott and Pace. We've added both LaRon Landry and Yeremiah Bell. One of those two will provide strong upgrades over Eric Smith. Eric Smith may not be an NFL starter at the Safety position, but he can be used as a 5th LB in obvious running situations (being used as a situational backup).

    In regards to Bart Scott, sure, he could've been quicker last season with a little more speed (which is why he's lost some dead weight during 2012's offseason) but that's not his job duty ala being a speedster inside middle linebacker. His job, as a 3-4 IMLB, is to take up the blocks for our LB's such as David Harris along with our Safety's in order for our defense to make plays. He plugs the holes. He does all the ugly work that's always gone unnoticed. He's only 31 years of age, which means that yes, he's getting up there; but some Jet fans are making Bart Scott out to be an IMLB who's playing on his last wheels. Which isn't the case. He's a young mans 31, especially considering the fact that he never started until his 4th season. He still put up 65 tackles to go along with 4.5 sacks last year.

    It's not like we haven't addressed our lack of quickness/speed at IMLB either. We just drafted Demario Davis during the 3rd round, a kid who has freakish athletic ability. His development as a rookie could become pivotal to our defensive success. If he's able to spell Bart Scott as our 3rd IMLB, Scott could end up having a very solid/healthy season. Davis, depending on his ability to impact/develop, could possibly man down our MLB position when switching to/running a 4-3 defense. We all know neither Harris nor Scott have the sideline to sideline speed/quickness to cause havoc as an MLB inside of a 4-3 scheme. Demario Davis just might.

    Demario Davis just ran a 4.61 forty. Which was fast enough to rank 4th amongst linebackers coming out of this years draft class. We all asked for speed at the IMLB position last season, we drafted just that in Demario Davis. Kid has more than just speed too, he also has bruit strength. Davis put up 32 bench reps. Which was good enough to rank 2nd amongst linebackers coming out of this years draft class. He's more than just speed and power as well, he's also very athletic. Davis (at the NFL combine) ranked 2nd out of all linebackers in vertical jumping ability, measured out at 38.5''. Outside of the WR position, his vertical jump was good enough to land 5th place of all players coming out. Davis also posted a 10'4'' broad jump as well. Good enough to place 2nd amongst all linebackers coming out. Both Aaron Maybin and Demario Davis can provide our front 7 with the type of speed that we've needed for a couple of years now. Bart Scott shouldn't be a concern.

    Just to give a comparison in regards to his athletic ability coming out of college?

    Vilma ran a 4.65, 37 inch vert, 23 bench reps, 6.67 three cone drill, 4.20 short shuttle and posted a 10 foot 1 inch broad jump coming out of college.

    Davis ran a 4.61, 38.5 inch vert, 32 bench reps, 7.19 three cone drill, 4.28 short shuttle and posted a 10 foot 4 inch broad jump heading into the draft.

    Not bad.

    Last but not least; Calvin Pace. Pace had a very underrated season with the Jets last season. 72 tackles, 4.5 sacks to go along with 3 forced fumbles. Regardless of what we say about Calvin Pace, he's been a key defensive player on 3 consecutive top 5 NFL defenses. With the deepest/strongest defensive line we've had in quite some time? I'm expecting Pace to put up double digit sack numbers. At least 7-8. Aaron Maybin causing havoc on the other side should help Pace as well. Last year? Wilkerson was a rookie, Ellis was a raw rookie who rarely seen the field. DeVito went down and missed 4 games. With Wilkerson no longer being a rookie, Ellis not having to worry about legal issues as a 2nd year player, DeVito returning from injury along with the drafting of what seems to be a beastly 3-4 defensive end in Quinton Coples? Pace could end up putting up very solid numbers/strong production. Defensive lineman are very important to an outside pass rushers success, especially when running a 3-4 defense. I'm actually anxious to see Pace take the field with a (could be) powerful defensive front.
    You are right, but of course most people will not read this.

    We didn't stick with them. We brought in replacements for all three.

    Eric Smith will play in sub packages only this year("You'll love him at 300 snaps, not 900 like last year").

    I believe Bart will be off the field in our base 4,3. If he has gained quickness he'll play in the 46, and some 3,4, with DD taking over more around the midseason.

    Calvin if healthy will suit this hybrid defense, and is the best player we have at setting the edge, and can play down. Hopefully he won't see the field too often towards the end of the season, with Coples taking his spot in the 4,3, and Maybin or Sapp at olb.

    At the very least Smith is now a backup, and the replacements for Bart, and Calvin we're acquired this year. No sense in cutting them

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    Quote Originally Posted by k.Rhodes25 View Post
    They save $7.2 mil by releasing Scott and $8.6 mil by releasing Pace after the season.
    I know we'll be losing two LB's in Pace and Scott, but what type of impact player could we land for 14.8 million? Anyone know of an updates list of potential free agents for 2013? Every list I've seen has guys such as Calvin Johnson and LeSean McCoy as up coming free agents although they've both already signed long term.

    Jairus Byrd is an up coming free agent, I'd love to see the Jets jump all over this kid with an offer he can't refuse. He'll only be heading into his 4th season at the age of only 26 next year. Bell is getting old, he's a one hitter quitter for our secondary. If Landry can stay healthy this season? Hypothetically speaking, Landry and Bryd could combine for the strongest duo of Safety's around.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by CR8ZMIKE View Post
    Um they know the defense? what is wrong with you. you cant get rid of everyone.

    Reason your dumb number 1. We need a safety that knows the defense.
    Reason your dumb number 2. Your dumb.
    Reason your dumb number 3. Calvin Pace is the best all around OLB we have..

    DO SOME HOMEWORK Schmuck.
    lol this guy "u can't trade everybody" ... its 3 guys dude and 3 guys who were incredibly sub-par last season. Reason one makes YOU dumb. I don't care what the safety knows if he can't freaking play so you're just an idiot. Won't even entertain 2 and 3 cause you're lame.

    Look I know what the salary cap is. I've broken certain numbers down for some so called "geniuses" here in the past to help you guys realize we can't sign EVERY freaking free agent out there and showed how stacking deals to Holmes in the back end will limit us in the future and etc. Look I'm no cap specialist and neither are any of you but Tanny was and where there's a will there's a way. Prior to June 1st if we restructured a contract and then pulled a trade some things I believe could have worked but like I said there was no will to cut ties with these guys. When you want to get rid of loose ends you really try to do so. We didn't try so we're stuck with these bums. Bums I'll cheer for cause I'm a fan but I'll be objective here and say I don't like their game. Is that a sin?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    You are right, but of course most people will not read this.

    We didn't stick with them. We brought in replacements for all three.

    Eric Smith will play in sub packages only this year("You'll love him at 300 snaps, not 900 like last year").

    I believe Bart will be off the field in our base 4,3. If he has gained quickness he'll play in the 46, and some 3,4, with DD taking over more around the midseason.

    Calvin if healthy will suit this hybrid defense, and is the best player we have at setting the edge, and can play down. Hopefully he won't see the field too often towards the end of the season, with Coples taking his spot in the 4,3, and Maybin or Sapp at olb.

    At the very least Smith is now a backup, and the replacements for Bart, and Calvin we're acquired this year. No sense in cutting them
    Everything you said sounded extremely smart minus our base being 4-3 ... our base won't be 4-3 and can some of you stop mentioning the 4-6 already we play that in short yardage situations and maybe some early downs but there's games where we don't even run it at all. As for the 4-3 ... we've there's nothing new here, we've always been multiple. I don't know what the hell you guys have been watching that tells you guys this 4-3 we'll be running is a new thing for the system. We're just going to implement some more packages cause of the personnel. This has already been addressed by the head coach and defensive coordinator. Our BASE is 3-4 ... stop creating things in your head that aren't actual! All that aside some good points and points well taken.

    The beauty of our defenses is that we hardly ever try to show teams what defense we're actually in and apparently we've fooled our own fans into thinking we've never freaking ran a 4-3 here, EVER. We're running more of it ... not going to it as our BASE defense (debunked and laughed at by Rex, literally he chuckled) and not adding it like its never existed. I think 5 people on this forum get this ... the rest are stuck on this "4-3" transition and making too big of a deal about it. Big Mo AND Coples give us versatility now up front. Get the hell out of here with the talk that Pace is the best is the best guy to play in the hybrid defense. Mo will already have surpassed him by training camp and Coples will surpass him by week 2. Pace is GARBO ... I'm shocked some of you are here pulling numbers out of some rabbit hat to make him save face.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by LadainianIMnotDONE View Post
    Everything you said sounded extremely smart minus our base being 4-3 ... our base won't be 4-3 and can some of you stop mentioning the 4-6 already we play that in short yardage situations and maybe some early downs but there's games where we don't even run it at all. As for the 4-3 ... we've there's nothing new here, we've always been multiple. I don't know what the hell you guys have been watching that tells you guys this 4-3 we'll be running is a new thing for the system. We're just going to implement some more packages cause of the personnel. This has already been addressed by the head coach and defensive coordinator. Our BASE is 3-4 ... stop creating things in your head that aren't actual! All that aside some good points and points well taken.

    The beauty of our defenses is that we hardly ever try to show teams what defense we're actually in and apparently we've fooled our own fans into thinking we've never freaking ran a 4-3 here, EVER. We're running more of it ... not going to it as our BASE defense (debunked and laughed at by Rex, literally he chuckled) and not adding it like its never existed. I think 5 people on this forum get this ... the rest are stuck on this "4-3" transition and making too big of a deal about it. Big Mo AND Coples give us versatility now up front. Get the hell out of here with the talk that Pace is the best is the best guy to play in the hybrid defense. Mo will already have surpassed him by training camp and Coples will surpass him by week 2. Pace is GARBO ... I'm shocked some of you are here pulling numbers out of some rabbit hat to make him save face.
    The jets most certainly ran some 4 man fronts, however they did it by playing a base 3-4 olb as an end and shuffling the line so that the other end is outside the shoulder of the other offensive tackle. IMO what makes this year different is that the two defensive draft picks are by all appearances more suited for a 4-3 scheme. Where the LB have more coverage responsibility and the DE is a speedier guy and and not a 315 lb DT/DE Tweener.

    Based on those two moves I see Rex recognizing the same thing that BB did last year (when he brought in Carter and Anderson a pair of 265 DE to play DE and not OLB) That the only way to counter act the new nfl passing rules is to get more pressure out of a base defense.

    While Pace and Scott could have been off the books this year, that cost impact would have precluded getting replacement players of the "same" quality.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    Yes. Say goodbye to both after this season.
    That's insane.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    Yes. Say goodbye to both after this season.
    You seem eager.

    All I am going to say is we don't know what we got until its gone. Pace's replacement will likely be a downgrade.

    Now I hope DD will learn a lot this year and we will have a seamless transition to him from Scott. But I think losing Pace is going to hurt for a year or two.

    He came here under high expectations to be a sack artist, but that was put on him by the fans. He was never a big time sack guy. In fact, his best years have been with the Jets. http://www.pro-football-reference.co...P/PaceCa20.htm

    Also, our run defense sucked before Jenkins and he arrived and since we have been very solid.

    I think Pace will be restructured and extended for a year. Get 2 yrs for the price of 1. Another reason is b.c this probably going to be BTs last season. I am not sure if they want to have two brand new OLBs at the same time with a young DL. But if Wilk and Coples show they can handle it then maybe.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    You seem eager.

    All I am going to say is we don't know what we got until its gone. Pace's replacement will likely be a downgrade.

    Now I hope DD will learn a lot this year and we will have a seamless transition to him from Scott. But I think losing Pace is going to hurt for a year or two.

    He came here under high expectations to be a sack artist, but that was put on him by the fans. He was never a big time sack guy. In fact, his best years have been with the Jets. http://www.pro-football-reference.co...P/PaceCa20.htm

    Also, our run defense sucked before Jenkins and he arrived and since we have been very solid.

    I think Pace will be restructured and extended for a year. Get 2 yrs for the price of 1. Another reason is b.c this probably going to be BTs last season. I am not sure if they want to have two brand new OLBs at the same time with a young DL. But if Wilk and Coples show they can handle it then maybe.
    I should have said that's my opinion based on the numbers.

    I think you could be right that Pace could stay if he's restructured but that depends on how many years it would necessarily extend his contract. He's going to turn 32 during this season.

    I just can't see him retained for an $11.5M cap hit in 2013. The Jets would have an entire off-season to find his replacement.

    As for Scott, I happen to think he's going to have a very good year here in 2012. His cap hit will be less severe in 2013 (compared to Pace) so he could be retained. However, he'll be 33 when the 2013 season starts and the Jets might have his replacement in DD. So a lot will be answered after this season is over.
    Last edited by Jordy; 07-05-2012 at 10:30 AM.

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