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Thread: Don't think we should have stuck with Eric Smith, Calvin Pace & Bart Scott this year

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    I know we'll be losing two LB's in Pace and Scott, but what type of impact player could we land for 14.8 million? Anyone know of an updates list of potential free agents for 2013? Every list I've seen has guys such as Calvin Johnson and LeSean McCoy as up coming free agents although they've both already signed long term.

    Jairus Byrd is an up coming free agent, I'd love to see the Jets jump all over this kid with an offer he can't refuse. He'll only be heading into his 4th season at the age of only 26 next year. Bell is getting old, he's a one hitter quitter for our secondary. If Landry can stay healthy this season? Hypothetically speaking, Landry and Bryd could combine for the strongest duo of Safety's around.
    Cutting Scott, Pace, and Smith will get the Jets to the cap. They are currently projected to be $15-18 million over the cap next year assuming the cap remains flat. The Jets' 2013 cap is currently at $138.3 million according to Jason and projected cap is at about $120 million.

    The Jets have other moves to get under the cap (cutting Wayne Hunter, restructuring Revis, etc.), but the money they save cutting Scott and Pace will be to get under the cap, not sign new free agents. Plus they will probably carry over $4-6 million from 2012. They will have cap room, but not what you think.

    http://www.nyjetscap.com/salary13.html
    Last edited by Rob0729; 07-05-2012 at 10:32 AM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob0729 View Post
    They will have cap room, but not what you think.
    [/url]
    Every year I hear it. Every year you're wrong...

    I said it a few weeks ago...

    Pats fans - "Jets will have 'X' problem with the cap"

    Never happens

    Jets fans - "Pats will fall off a cliff, we got this"

    Never happens

    Both sides should just keep their mouths closed on these items...

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite View Post
    Every year I hear it. Every year you're wrong...

    I said it a few weeks ago...

    Pats fans - "Jets will have 'X' problem with the cap"

    Never happens

    Jets fans - "Pats will fall off a cliff, we got this"

    Never happens

    Both sides should just keep their mouths closed on these items...
    I never said the Jets would have problems with the cap. I expect after some moves that they will probably be something like $10-12 million under the cap next year assuming it stays at $120 million. I already pointed out the savings from cutting Smith, Hunter, Pace, and Scott which is about $22 million off of the $138 million. A Revis renegotiation should cut that by $2-4 million. The cap push through from 2012 should be about $4-6 million.

    I was responding to a poster that seemed to think that the Jets were already at or below the cap and that the $15 million or so saved by Pace and Scott can be used towards free agency. The Jets will have cap money for free agency, but not as much as he/she was expecting. That cap savings from cutting Scott and Pace will not go to acquiring free agents as the poster suggested, but go to getting the Jets under the cap. That was my only point.

    In fact, nothing I have said is any different than what Jason reported back in June. He talks about other moves that could free up more space, but those are less definite than the ones I mentioned.

    http://www.nyjetscap.com/2012_Articles/claytoncap.php

    The one unknown is the free agents. The Jets do have up to 7 starters being unrestricted free agents in 2013 (Slauson, Greene, Keller, DeVito, Moore, Landry, and Bell) to go along with Hunter, Pace, and Scott being cut. That is up to 10 starters to be resigned or replaced. The replacements may be on the roster and some may be replaced as starters long before the 2013 season ends. So that is a discussion for the Jets' 2013 cap situation that needs to be tabled for now until we see how the season pans out.
    Last edited by Rob0729; 07-05-2012 at 01:57 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite View Post
    Every year I hear it. Every year you're wrong...

    I said it a few weeks ago...

    Pats fans - "Jets will have 'X' problem with the cap"

    Never happens

    Jets fans - "Pats will fall off a cliff, we got this"

    Never happens

    Both sides should just keep their mouths closed on these items...

    The jets did not have problems with the cap this year? Why else did they not upgrade the RT position or cut Scott and his 7 mill salary, why did they not play in the WR FA. They were hamstrung by the cap.

    But your point is well taken, some patriot posters have said for years that the jets were going to be in cap hell and were proven wrong.

  5. #25
    I hate our fans

  6. #26
    in an ideal world where upgrades are readily available and there is no salary cap then yes...

    however we dont live in said world.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri_0515 View Post
    I hate our fans
    Then why be here?

    Or you can at least state your reasons and then we can go from there.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurkJetFan View Post
    in an ideal world where upgrades are readily available and there is no salary cap then yes...

    however we dont live in said world.
    So what are you saying?

    Granted, you can't pick players off a tree but you also have to work within the cap. If we're going to be over the cap next season, changes have to be made.

    I'd be curious to know how many teams currently have $27M wrapped up in their starting LB's. My guess is very few , if any. We do.

    Bottom line is, and you have to look at the bottom line, Scott and Pace are not likely to be worth what they will be making in 2013. And their cap hits will adversely affect the team's ability to bring in quality players at other positions that may need to be addressed.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    I'd be curious to know how many teams currently have $27M wrapped up in their starting LB's. My guess is very few , if any. We do.
    Lets not exaggerate Jordy. The Jets don't currently have 27M wrapped up into our starting LB's here in 2012-2013.

    Harris: $9,900,000
    Scott: $4,200,000
    Pace: $3,085,000
    Thomas: $900,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    Scott and Pace are not likely to be worth what they will be making in 2013. And their cap hits will adversely affect the team's ability to bring in quality players at other positions that may need to be addressed.
    Lets not act as if the Jets won't be able to save 12-14 million by releasing Scott and Pace next offseason as well. One of the main reasons why we drafted Demario Davis as high as the 3rd round, was to develop/groom Demario this up coming season in order for Davis to possibly/potentially become our future replacement to Bart Scott. Which is why it's so important for Maybin to come into his own as an outside pass rusher this up coming season, but chances are, we're going OLB during the first round (especially if we release Pace).

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    I should have said that's my opinion based on the numbers.

    I think you could be right that Pace could stay if he's restructured but that depends on how many years it would necessarily extend his contract. He's going to turn 32 during this season.

    I just can't see him retained for an $11.5M cap hit in 2013. The Jets would have an entire off-season to find his replacement.

    As for Scott, I happen to think he's going to have a very good year here in 2012. His cap hit will be less severe in 2013 (compared to Pace) so he could be retained. However, he'll be 33 when the 2013 season starts and the Jets might have his replacement in DD. So a lot will be answered after this season is over.

    You are right. We will have to see how it all plays out.

    That is the problem you run into when you fill positions in FA. Pace and Scott were both attractive FAs when they were signed. Jets went a year too long on both contracts IMO, but sometimes that is what you have to do to secure a player that you want. I am not going to blame the FO for that.

    Hopefully they hold up and play well and make the Jets' decision a hard one. Either way, I think it is safe to say we will be looking for LBs in FA and the draft next season. I think there is a very good chance that 2 out of the 3 (Scott, Thomas, Pace) will be gone after this season.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    Lets not act as if the Jets won't be able to save 12-14 million by releasing Scott and Pace next offseason as well. One of the main reasons why we drafted Demario Davis as high as the 3rd round, was to develop/groom Demario this up coming season in order for Davis to possibly/potentially become our future replacement to Bart Scott. Which is why it's so important for Maybin to come into his own as an outside pass rusher this up coming season, but chances are, we're going OLB during the first round (especially if we release Pace).
    I agree, especially with the Davis/Scott stuff.

    If Maybin was more of an all-around player than I would say he might be able to fill in for Pace. But as it stands now, that would be asking too much of him. He is a liability in run defense. Which is going to factor into whether the Jets want to retain him. He needs to find a way to play every down otherwise he is just a luxury item. I do not see Rex compromising the run defense. Which is why we will definitely be in the market for OLB in draft or FA. With or without Maybin re-signed.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    Lets not exaggerate Jordy. The Jets don't currently have 27M wrapped up into our starting LB's here in 2012-2013.

    Harris: $9,900,000
    Scott: $4,200,000
    Pace: $3,085,000
    Thomas: $900,000



    Lets not act as if the Jets won't be able to save 12-14 million by releasing Scott and Pace next offseason as well. One of the main reasons why we drafted Demario Davis as high as the 3rd round, was to develop/groom Demario this up coming season in order for Davis to possibly/potentially become our future replacement to Bart Scott. Which is why it's so important for Maybin to come into his own as an outside pass rusher this up coming season, but chances are, we're going OLB during the first round (especially if we release Pace).
    Where did you get these numbers from? or is this just the salary of those players this year. and not their total cap hit, The salary is the only thing you save if he is cut, but for accounting purposes is is not the whole cost of having that player at that position.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    So what are you saying?

    Granted, you can't pick players off a tree but you also have to work within the cap. If we're going to be over the cap next season, changes have to be made.

    I'd be curious to know how many teams currently have $27M wrapped up in their starting LB's. My guess is very few , if any. We do.

    Bottom line is, and you have to look at the bottom line, Scott and Pace are not likely to be worth what they will be making in 2013. And their cap hits will adversely affect the team's ability to bring in quality players at other positions that may need to be addressed.
    what im saying is this year in 2012, we cant cut scott and pace without detrimental cap effects...and if we were to do so this year there are no viable options to replace them...given the fact that theres a salary cap and there are no realistic current options to replace them the point is moot. eric smith you can make a great argument that we should of cut him and even went with OJ Atogwe for example.

    2013 is another story, but the thread says "this year".

    I'm saying the same thing I said originally just in more words.
    Last edited by TurkJetFan; 07-05-2012 at 03:45 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by LadainianIMnotDONE View Post
    Not sure if we had a choice in the matter and if there was anything else we could have done but these are 3 guys who we should have moved on from at all cost and went both younger, faster, and on Pace's side more explosive. Bart being a liability in coverage is expected but last year he was so slow getting off blocks and literally lacked any play making ability we're used to seeing from him especially on running plays. Eric Smith ... well he's the dumb elephant in the room that nobody seems to be talking about. The weak spot in our defense and he's supposed to control the back-line of the D and he's terrible at that job. I honestly thought we'd move on from all 3 of these guys at all cost and no matter what it cost us but I still think we could have improved defensively and getting rid of all of these guys would have helped.

    I know Pace has his defenders on here but he's supposed to be a playmaker and he's payed to be one and he makes a playmaker type play that stands out maybe once every 3 games. He has 1 game in a season where he dominates frequently in spurts throughout the game. 2 years ago it was the Bengals game, last year I think it was one of the buffalo games. He's a guy we really should just separate from and try to get some young blood there to help especially with some speed off the edge. Pace is slow as hell ... Lets hope these guys don't slow our defense down and keep it from being GREAT. Our defense is VERY good but I'd like it to be great and these 3 guys for me are key components that hold us back IMO.
    Ive heard Rex say on numerous occasions that Eric Smith played hurt for most of last season and as far as Pace goes, if they think hes done they may still trade him or cut him, so why the whining?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    Lets not exaggerate Jordy. The Jets don't currently have 27M wrapped up into our starting LB's here in 2012-2013.

    Harris: $9,900,000
    Scott: $4,200,000
    Pace: $3,085,000
    Thomas: $900,000
    You'd be wrong. Again. You seem to be looking at base salary numbers and not cap hits.

    Cap Hits

    Pace - 2012 = $7.3M 2013 = $11.5M
    Scott - 2012 = $5.95M 2013 = $8.65M
    Harris - 2012 = $12M 2013 = $13M
    Plug in Thomas or Maybin or anyone else and you can see that the cap hit approaches $27M. Heck, it's $25.5M just for those 3. Then look at 2013. Over $33M on those 3 alone! What was that about exaggerating?

    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85
    Lets not act as if the Jets won't be able to save 12-14 million by releasing Scott and Pace next offseason as well. One of the main reasons why we drafted Demario Davis as high as the 3rd round, was to develop/groom Demario this up coming season in order for Davis to possibly/potentially become our future replacement to Bart Scott. Which is why it's so important for Maybin to come into his own as an outside pass rusher this up coming season, but chances are, we're going OLB during the first round (especially if we release Pace).
    What are you talking about? Next season IS when they can save almost $16M on Pace and Scott if they are released. That's what I said. Please try reading more closely.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurkJetFan View Post
    what im saying is this year in 2012, we cant cut scott and pace without detrimental cap effects...and if we were to do so this year there are no viable options to replace them...given the fact that theres a salary cap and there are no realistic current options to replace them the point is moot. eric smith you can make a great argument that we should of cut him and even went with OJ Atogwe for example.

    2013 is another story, but the thread says "this year".

    I'm saying the same thing I said originally just in more words.
    Personally, I was talking about 2013. I thought you were responding to me. Sorry if I misread that.

  17. #37

    Thumbs down

    I don't disagree at all man. Realistically, whether or not some posters around here want to hear it, our roster is just not that great this season. There is room for growth and I'm excited about some of the new additions, but if you're looking at the 2012-13 Jets as a Super Bowl contender right now, you have a pretty thick pair of green glasses on. The team will be battling the Bills for 2nd place, outside chance at stealing the 6 seed.
    Last edited by SlickBri481; 07-05-2012 at 04:59 PM.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    I don't disagree at all man. Realistically, whether or not some posters around here want to hear it, our roster is just not that great this season. There is room for growth and I'm excited about some of the new additions, but if you're looking at the 2012-13 Jets as a Super Bowl contender right now, you have a pretty large pair of green glasses on. The team will be battling the Bills for 2nd place, outside chance at stealing the 6 seed.
    Are you still really psyched for the start of the 2011 season?

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri_0515 View Post
    I hate our fans
    racist

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    Personally, I was talking about 2013. I thought you were responding to me. Sorry if I misread that.
    in the context of 2013 I agree with you fully and would shocked if it doesnt happen.

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