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Thread: Coples vs DeCastro.....and Eric Winston

  1. #1
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    Coples vs DeCastro.....and Eric Winston

    I really wanted Dave DeCastro in the draft. I understand Rex said Coples was the best DE and I am not going to argue with him. I am disappointed that we didn't pick up DeCastro though. If we had signed him we could have let Moore go and saved 3 million on the cap. Then instead of restructuring Hunter we could have cut him and saved another 3 million. Eric Winston signed a 4 year 22 million dollar contract with the Chiefs.

    I'll give Rex best DE in the draft but DeCastro was talked about as a once a generation player. In my opinion the TEAM would have been better with DeCastro/Winston vs Coples Moore and Hunter. If we locked up Slauson next year our line would have been set for the next 4-5 years. I believe that line would have handled business on their own without us having to keep a TE in for blocking or running a jumbo package with DuCasse.

    I know the draft is over but it's slow. If you are going to post 'Haha draft is over' just keep out, some of the trolls on this board have made this site unreadable lately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BX Jet Fan View Post
    I really wanted Dave DeCastro in the draft. I understand Rex said Coples was the best DE and I am not going to argue with him. I am disappointed that we didn't pick up DeCastro though. If we had signed him we could have let Moore go and saved 3 million on the cap. Then instead of restructuring Hunter we could have cut him and saved another 3 million. Eric Winston signed a 4 year 22 million dollar contract with the Chiefs.

    I'll give Rex best DE in the draft but DeCastro was talked about as a once a generation player. In my opinion the TEAM would have been better with DeCastro/Winston vs Coples Moore and Hunter. If we locked up Slauson next year our line would have been set for the next 4-5 years. I believe that line would have handled business on their own without us having to keep a TE in for blocking or running a jumbo package with DuCasse.

    I know the draft is over but it's slow. If you are going to post 'Haha draft is over' just keep out, some of the trolls on this board have made this site unreadable lately.
    I see where you're coming from, but I look at it like this, with the drafting of Quinton Coples? We could be set at the end position(s) for many of years to come. Wilkerson has already became our most talented defensive end drafted since Abe/Ellis. Key word being 'since'. If Coples can live up to potential and overall expectation? We're looking at the best set of defensive ends since the drafting's of both Shaun Ellis and John Abraham during the 2000 NFL draft.

    It would be nice to solidify our offensive line, but no matter how strong our offensive line is, we'll still have to worry about Tom Brady and the New England Patriots. If we're to eventually compete for a Super Bowl? The AFC East will go though the New England Patriots (for the time being). We need a defense that can contain the likes of Brady, Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez and Brandon Lloyd. Better yet, we need a front 7 in which can get after Brady for 4 quarters strong. Landing a strong offensive lineman wouldn't be able to contain or even get after Tom Brady. Quinton Coples on the other hand? Kid has the ability to become down right nasty.
    Last edited by NY2FLDWC85; 07-05-2012 at 11:42 PM.

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    Coples and Wilkerson are going to become an elite combo in a couple of years. This will be a top 5 d-line for years to come. And can you imagine if Kenrick Ellis becomes good too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    I see where you're coming from, but I look at it like this, with the drafting of Quinton Coples? We could be set at the end position(s) for many of years to come. Wilkerson has already became our most talented defensive end drafted since Abe/Ellis. Key word being 'since'. If Coples can live up to potential and overall expectation? We're looking at the best set of defensive ends since the drafting's of both Shaun Ellis and John Abraham during the 2000 NFL draft.

    It would be nice to solidify our offensive line, but no matter how strong our offensive line is, we'll still have to worry about Tom Brady and the New England Patriots. If we're to eventually compete for a Super Bowl? The AFC East will go though the New England Patriots (for the time being). We need a defense that can contain the likes of Brady, Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez and Brandon Lloyd. Better yet, we need a front 7 in which can get after Brady for 4 quarters strong. Landing a strong offensive lineman wouldn't be able to contain or even get after Tom Brady. Quinton Coples on the other hand? Kid has the ability to become down right nasty.
    Again, I'm not arguing about Coples being a good pick. But I think picking up DeCastro and Winston improves every aspect of our offense. Mark has more time, WR's have more time, our RB's get bigger holes to run thru and we don't have to keep extra people in to block.

    I'm not arguing Coples vs DeCastro, it's Coples vs DeCastro PLUS Winston. It also would have allowed us to deal with Moore early and with the best possible replacement in a decade, plus get rid of Hunter.

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    It is all hinds site don't let it eat you up. How many JETS fans do you hear going "If we had only taken Sapp" still. Or the more resent "we traded up for Sanchez why". Coples going into the draft was the highest rates D play. He had some concerns and we where lucky he dropped. If you have a shot at a play maker at DE like him you take it. There is a reason you don't see a lot of G's going in the 1st round. If DeCastro is the best G in the history of the NFL after the fact OK you can say that. Bottom line though even if Coples is an average DE it will likely end up being seen as the right pick. He is a very high up side player with a pretty high floor. It was a safe bet at a position that is highly valued. You just have to root for the players they give you and hope they know what they are doing more then you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JetsCrazey View Post
    Coples and Wilkerson are going to become an elite combo in a couple of years. This will be a top 5 d-line for years to come. And can you imagine if Kenrick Ellis becomes good too?
    I agree in regards to Wilkerson 100%. Now, if Quinton Coples can develop as expected? We're looking at two of the most talented Jet DE's since John Abraham and Shaun Ellis.

    I refuse to get my hopes up about Kenrick Ellis, sounds too good to be true (3 defensive freaks on the defensive line?) but if a 6' 4", 346 lbs Ellis can develop into a future impact NT in replace of Pouha? The sky then becomes the limit for this Jets defense.

    As of right now, I'll settle for featuring two of our most talented ends since Ellis and Abe. I look at K.Ellis as an added bonus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    It is all hinds site don't let it eat you up. How many JETS fans do you hear going "If we had only taken Sapp" still. Or the more resent "we traded up for Sanchez why". Coples going into the draft was the highest rates D play. He had some concerns and we where lucky he dropped. If you have a shot at a play maker at DE like him you take it. There is a reason you don't see a lot of G's going in the 1st round. If DeCastro is the best G in the history of the NFL after the fact OK you can say that. Bottom line though even if Coples is an average DE it will likely end up being seen as the right pick. He is a very high up side player with a pretty high floor. It was a safe bet at a position that is highly valued. You just have to root for the players they give you and hope they know what they are doing more then you.
    It's not just hindsite. It's also looking at Tanny/Rex. Our Defense isn't the problem, it's the Offense. Don't blow smoke up my ass about ground and pound, and then not fix the single biggest problem on the Offense (Hunter)
    People on this board used to routinely say Callahan was one of the best Oline coaches in the league, now Sparano is supposed to turn Hunter around when Callahan couldn't.

    We could have had 2 Pro Bowl level players locked up for 4 years, and used our 1st round pick next year and then traded up next year to get whoever Rex wanted. (Maybe Revis's replacement) We would have gotten 3 players both ways, but we would have gotten 1 a year early.

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    Not to get off topic, but #24's replacement? Revis isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Kid is only 26 years of age and has already distinguished himself as the greatest defensive football player in today's NFL.

    In regards to this thread, it sounds like you consider Coples/DeCastro a wash, which means it's all about Eric Winston.

    Would you have signed up for Winston and Coples? I would have loved Wintson myself, he'll help that Kansas City Chiefs offense in more ways than one, but I guess he was out of our price range?

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    Yeah, without DeCastro there is no Winston. The money to sign him would have come from cutting Moore and Hunter.

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    De Castro is a fine prospect but a guard is still a guard. Coples plays an arguably more valuable position and fits the Jets needs right now, given the ongoing arms race in the AFC East and the rest of the conference. Jets needs to be able to rock Brady early and often, and discombobulate the Pats.

    Wilks and Coples gives the Jets potentially dominant DE's. Ellis is an interesting prospect, he has amazing physical tools with outstanding agility, burst and motor for such a big guy. But his conditoning is key, and realistically it will be that much harder once he's done singing the Folsom Prison Blues. Some posters mentioned in an earlier thread that his potential could be Jenkins-esque considering his balance/coordination and how nimble he is at his size.

    Even if he gives us Pouha type production that would be friggin' awesome and he can't go wrong learning from one of the top tier NT's in the game

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    It's a weird feeling talking about Pouha in this type of manner. I remember when we drafted this kid out of Utah during the 3rd or 4th round, Sione Pouha was a monster defensive lineman coming out of college. I remember he earned some playing time as a rookie, didn't really impresses but then suffered a season ending injury during his 2nd season. I thought that was the end of Pouha. I believe he had an up and done 3rd and 4th types of seasons but simply exploded onto the scenes after Jenkins went down back in 2009. Since then? It's only taken Pouha 3 seasons to develop into one of the league strongest 3-4 NT's. You remember when Jenkins went down? We all thought our season was over. Then, at the end of the season, we started to think as a fan base... Did our defense just perform better with Pouha in replace of Jenkins when compared to the other way around? He brushed it off as a fluke. Then come 2010? Jenkins went down again, and we all started to question if Pouhda could once again, anchor a top 5 defense. By the time the Jets were heading into 2011 (last year) we all knew, without question, that we had something special in Sione Pouha. It's a shame he's already 33 years of age, if only we tapped into his talent/potential much earlier.

    This man likes to eat.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFGSdYMQZc4

    This was a really nice watch. Never seen a video of the person behind the uniform. Just became even more of a fan of Pouha after watching this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1NkNQEGPPc

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    I used to be one of those "I think we're better with off with players x,y and z over that i, ii, and iii" but then i figured out that the NFL and GMs don't work like that. You don't make decisions based wishes and wants. You deal with the situation as it is. when it is.

    Coples was hands down the best defensive talent in the draft. If he pans out (and i have no reason not to think he will) he's going to be a 10 year freak. Kearse like before he starting blowing out his knees every other week. You don't pass up on that guy for a good Guard. DeCastro wasn't the big dipper. He was about as good as Pouncey. Mid-first round talent.

    What we've done in the last 2 years on the defensive line was overdue. Not Woody retiring overdue - but letting John Abraham go overdue.
    Last edited by Paradis; 07-06-2012 at 03:09 AM.

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    Strong post Paradis. We've completely re-vamped our defensive front over the past two seasons. The drafting of Quinton Coples may have just solidified our defensive line for many of years to come. When in regards to DeCastro, we're talking about a Guard here, not a Franchise LT or a blue chip prospect at the Center position. No way could we have afforded to pass up on a true 3-4 defensive talent such as Coples for a Guard. We have to get to Brady, it's as simple as that. With the way the NFL games are called these days, it's extremely difficult to contain a passing attack with your back 7; it's all about the front 7 being able to cause havoc, which is why pass rushing outside linebackers and versatile defensive ends are at a premium as of right now. Coples has the ability to cause havoc behind the L.O.S; which will be needed in order to escape the Patriots.

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    The Jets are hoping Brandon Moore bounces back, plus like they like the upside of their younger G's, Matt Slauson and Caleb Schlauderehrweopewrhwephauff.

    That and they've already invested over $100 million in Ferguson and Mangold, and defense wins championships if the Giants haven't proved that recently. Heck, Green Bay won when their D played well. Last year when it hit the tank, sure they went 15-1, but come playoff time couldn't even stop a hail mary.

    People can talk offense all they'd like. Defense still wins championships and the Jets OLine isn't THAT bad.

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    right. much as the oline underperformed last season, the whole offense did. schitty was the prime cause. by drafting coples with wilkerson, ellis, pouha, devito et al the jets have a very talented and deep dline. teams are going to try and play more hurry up and two te passing alignments and keeping the defense fresh will help counter this.

    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    I see where you're coming from, but I look at it like this, with the drafting of Quinton Coples? We could be set at the end position(s) for many of years to come. Wilkerson has already became our most talented defensive end drafted since Abe/Ellis. Key word being 'since'. If Coples can live up to potential and overall expectation? We're looking at the best set of defensive ends since the drafting's of both Shaun Ellis and John Abraham during the 2000 NFL draft.

    It would be nice to solidify our offensive line, but no matter how strong our offensive line is, we'll still have to worry about Tom Brady and the New England Patriots. If we're to eventually compete for a Super Bowl? The AFC East will go though the New England Patriots (for the time being). We need a defense that can contain the likes of Brady, Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez and Brandon Lloyd. Better yet, we need a front 7 in which can get after Brady for 4 quarters strong. Landing a strong offensive lineman wouldn't be able to contain or even get after Tom Brady. Quinton Coples on the other hand? Kid has the ability to become down right nasty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    I see where you're coming from, but I look at it like this, with the drafting of Quinton Coples? We could be set at the end position(s) for many of years to come. Wilkerson has already became our most talented defensive end drafted since Abe/Ellis. Key word being 'since'. If Coples can live up to potential and overall expectation? We're looking at the best set of defensive ends since the drafting's of both Shaun Ellis and John Abraham during the 2000 NFL draft.

    It would be nice to solidify our offensive line, but no matter how strong our offensive line is, we'll still have to worry about Tom Brady and the New England Patriots. If we're to eventually compete for a Super Bowl? The AFC East will go though the New England Patriots (for the time being). We need a defense that can contain the likes of Brady, Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez and Brandon Lloyd. Better yet, we need a front 7 in which can get after Brady for 4 quarters strong. Landing a strong offensive lineman wouldn't be able to contain or even get after Tom Brady. Quinton Coples on the other hand? Kid has the ability to become down right nasty.
    Not disagreeing with the overall sentiment here, but one of the best ways to contain Brady is to keep him off the field - that needs an O that can sustain drives. Stronger O line achives that on both the pass and run.

    However, I think the assumption overall is that Hunter 2012 = Hunter 2011. If he can improve with the coaching / system changes, then there really is no discussion. OK, it's a big IF to us sitting on the outside looking in, we'll just need to wait and hope to be pleasantly surprised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post

    Coples was hands down the best defensive talent in the draft. If he pans out (and i have no reason not to think he will) he's going to be a 10 year freak. Kearse like before he starting blowing out his knees every other week. You don't pass up on that guy for a good Guard. DeCastro wasn't the big dipper. He was about as good as Pouncey. Mid-first round talent.
    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    Strong post Paradis. No way could we have afforded to pass up on a true 3-4 defensive talent


    1. That is not even close to being true
    2.
    3. Shocking

    C'mon guys.

  18. #18
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    Stop being a Bunch of Nancy's

    Oline had a terrible year and it's an aggressive position. I would see shotty and Callahan not on the same page on offense last year. With Saparano (and yes I'm being optimistic) I can see him have his guys play a more aggressive style of football on the Oline and just punching those dline men in the Mouth.

    The offense will be better.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    I see where you're coming from, but I look at it like this, with the drafting of Quinton Coples? We could be set at the end position(s) for many of years to come. Wilkerson has already became our most talented defensive end drafted since Abe/Ellis. Key word being 'since'. If Coples can live up to potential and overall expectation? We're looking at the best set of defensive ends since the drafting's of both Shaun Ellis and John Abraham during the 2000 NFL draft.

    It would be nice to solidify our offensive line, but no matter how strong our offensive line is, we'll still have to worry about Tom Brady and the New England Patriots. If we're to eventually compete for a Super Bowl? The AFC East will go though the New England Patriots (for the time being). We need a defense that can contain the likes of Brady, Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez and Brandon Lloyd. Better yet, we need a front 7 in which can get after Brady for 4 quarters strong. Landing a strong offensive lineman wouldn't be able to contain or even get after Tom Brady. Quinton Coples on the other hand? Kid has the ability to become down right nasty.
    Here is how I look at this situation. Offense win championships these days, not the defense. Look at the teams with the best records in 2011 they for the most part had great offenses and questionable defenses. (49ers were the exception that played in a weak division)

    Now IF you were one piece(olineman) away from having that kind of offense that could compete with those team on offense.(match them point for point). That not the case as the Jets don't have anywhere close to those teams on offense. (Right now the Jet Qb is no where close to the top Qbs in the league.)
    So how do they compete with those teams. They have to take a Top five defense and try and make it a dominating unit . So it quite understandable why the Jets went in the direction they went in.

    That's the only chance they have to compete.
    Last edited by Raider9175; 07-06-2012 at 08:45 AM.

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    BX Jet Fan has an interesting idea. I think Moore definitely underperformed last season. Whether he will bounce back this year is unclear. In any case it's always better to get rid of a guy a year too early instead of a year too late.

    With DeCastro and Winston the Jets could have had one of the best O lines in the NFL. I think that would have been perfect for our new "ground and pound" philosophy. Not only would that have taken time off the clock (resting the defense) but it would have also taken pressure off of Sanchez to carry the team on his back. And it would have given Sanchez more time to make his reads.

    A dominant D line is a very desirable thing in the NFL (see Giants, NY). And I do believe Coples is a special player. But the D line without him (DeVito, Pouha, Wilkerson, Ellis) would have been pretty stout. So if Winston could have been signed I think I would have been on board with it. If Sanchez is running for his life next season and getting sacked on every fifth play then it won't matter how good our D is playing.

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