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Thread: Interesting Comment on Sparano's O (McElroy)

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    I have no excuses. I just ate dinner, TX, and it hurts now.
    That one play really sums up Sanchez's 53 starts as an NFL QB.

    If he hits that pass, more than likely Greene gets around the edge for the go-ahead touchdown.

    Sanchez had no pressure whatsoever on that play, but still threw the ball 2-yards behind an open receiver 5 yards downfield.

    That one play, cost the Jets a playoff trip last year.

  2. #42
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    Same as all other systems, move the chains and score points.

  3. #43
    just about every nfl team has about 90% the same plays. the real difference is in the verbiage and how the team executes the play. even schitty had good plays but he didn't know when to call what play and it's pretty obvious that schitty didn't pay much attention to the offense day to day. he was not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by JacksonHtsJetFan View Post
    http://blog.newyorkjets.com/2012/06/...to-normal-now/

    ďItís a difficult system but itís very similar to what we did last year in terms of reads and concepts,Ē he said. ďWeíre running the same plays but with different verbiage.Ē -McElroy

    Is the fan base in general, aware of the parallels that are drawn from the two systems (Sparano, Schotty)? Or were we expecting an entirely new system?
    I feel almost mislead perhaps by the fact that the picture that was drawn was in reality, a horse, as opposed to the sketched chicken.
    So if they're "running the same plays but with different verbiage", what can we expect to be different? Is it all about situation coupled with the potentially countless nuances of each offensive system? I was taken back a bit when I read this, and actually left me a tad uncomfortable. What are your reactions?

  4. #44
    [QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4510502]That one play really sums up Sanchez's 53 starts as an NFL QB.

    If he hits that pass, more than likely Greene gets around the edge for the go-ahead touchdown.

    Sanchez had no pressure whatsoever on that play, but still threw the ball 2-yards behind an open receiver 5 yards downfield.

    That one play, cost the Jets a playoff trip last year.[/QUO

    Well the Jets were officially eliminated even if they beat Miami. I was at the game and we needed alot to happen in order for us to get in. Tenn beat Houston by one point no less 23-22. Not sure if the Jets knew about it or not but they finished horribly no doubt. At that point we knew the Jets couldn't beat any sorry teams to end the season so it was better off. They would have easily lost the first game and we would still have shotty's confusing senseless offense to watch again.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    I don't think he knows much except for the new verbiage, and what he sees in the playbook. Of course the concepts are the same. They're NFL concepts. Let him tell me it's the same after he has mastered it. This also may be construed as a slight to Sanchez. The difference to me will be in the repetitions of certain plays until they don't have to think about the plays out there, and can concentrate on the defense. Of course the situations the plays are called in may be different as well. I especially would like them to get to the line, set with 15 seconds left on the clock. Lets put the pressure on the defense for once. Lets also have more options, and use of the whole field. Before you say he can't read the whole field. I'll say less plays and more reps will allow him to be more confident in where everyone will be. Can we master a few plays instead of kind of knowing hundreds of plays? That goes for the receivers too. Not just Mark.
    This...

    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    Sparano's offense is way different than Schottenheimer's. There are parallels in every offense. Blocking schemes, running plays, passing routes. The plays may be similar, but the philosophy of how it's run is the key.

    Will Sparano run a draw on 3rd and 12?

    Will Sparano call a 7 yard route on a 3rd and 8?

    Will Sparano keep running the ball if Greene can't gain more than 1 yard on 10 carries in a row?

    Everything that comes out of McElroy's mouth has a negative undertone on it. He seldom says anything, but when he does there's always a catch.
    ...this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    Schotty's playbook was never the problem, it was the gameplanning and the game calling that were problems, and the decisions he made when calling for them.

    Most offenses in the NFL all have similar concepts, most coaches have very big play books.

    Verbiage and how they deploy those concepts and when to deploy them is what makes a good OC.
    ...and this.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by sameoldjets View Post
    just about every nfl team has about 90% the same plays. the real difference is in the verbiage and how the team executes the play. even schitty had good plays but he didn't know when to call what play and it's pretty obvious that schitty didn't pay much attention to the offense day to day. he was not a good coach.
    Shoddy's supposed intelligence didn't translate to the field. It's like he thought things up in a vaccum with a disregard for context - down and distance is a perfect and prominent recurring example of his bumbling.

    Not sorry to see him leave. He wasn't the only problem last year but his incompetence and negligience were simply inexcusable.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    Ray, we haven't heard from him since those comments. Now he comes out with this. I'm not focusing on it being negative, but the taste in my mouth is that he's not content with anything on the Jets right now until proven otherwise.

    I like his play, and hope he's wrong that the systems are the same, but I strongly believe that you keep dirty laundry in house, and he didn't do that.

    Anyway, if the guy had an arm like Brian Stafford, he'd be a first round talent, IMO.
    John, I'm not sure what we're arguing here.

    I completely agree that what McElroy did at the end of last season was wrong, and it didn't reflect well on him and the team. But I don't think this is something that we need to be worried about with the player. I think he was in a position where the end of the season was fresh on his mind, and he was invited to do an interview for a local show, and probably forgot all about the potential of the interview getting national attention. I truly believe it was an honest mistake on his part, and that he knows that he was wrong.

    I don't at all see how his comments portrayed in this thread is a negative in anyway, on him, or the team? There is nothing wrong with what he said. He made the statement about the comparisons between each coach's playbook, it was neither an indictment of Schotty Jr, or an insult to Sparano.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by OneTime View Post
    One of Shotty's biggest problem was which play was called based on the situation... so even if the plays are similar we can improve greatly by simply calling the right play at the right time
    This is certainly true, but


    the personnel is the same, we need depth on the line, depth at RB, and those are going to be exposed. I really like Powell, saw him Preseason last year, but he had no carries in real season.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    John, I'm not sure what we're arguing here.

    I completely agree that what McElroy did at the end of last season was wrong, and it didn't reflect well on him and the team. But I don't think this is something that we need to be worried about with the player. I think he was in a position where the end of the season was fresh on his mind, and he was invited to do an interview for a local show, and probably forgot all about the potential of the interview getting national attention. I truly believe it was an honest mistake on his part, and that he knows that he was wrong.

    I don't at all see how his comments portrayed in this thread is a negative in anyway, on him, or the team? There is nothing wrong with what he said. He made the statement about the comparisons between each coach's playbook, it was neither an indictment of Schotty Jr, or an insult to Sparano.
    Why would he say the offense is "basically the same", and "very difficult"? or whatever he said exactly, but that was the jist.

    He really doesn't even know yet, unless he's had a lot of time spent with Sporano going over the way they're going to be attacking defenses this year. We just heard from Sanchez, Santonio, and Sporano, how things were going to be run differently, and I'm sure McElroy had time to hear about it, while he was sitting on the bench. He's pretty smart you know. I beleive he chose his words carefully. I don't think he's very happy about the Tebow move, and I can't blame him for that, but I can blame him for this.

    It's only OTAs and already everyone can see that things are being run much differently, and we know from past history that their offenses are as different as two of the same style offenses can be. It's not like one is West coast, and the other is run and shoot, but one is straight up read and react, and the other was motions, trickery, and no freedom to improvise. You can't improvise when the receiver and QB aren't on the same page. The most important thing that should be different is that we will run these plays in practice to death, before we move on to some new "can't miss" play that ends up confusing our own team. That, and getting the play called in time to switch it up, or to catch the defense off guard. Tempo is important for offensive rhythm, and confidence, as well as keeping the defense on their heels.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by george jetfan from miami View Post

    Well the Jets were officially eliminated even if they beat Miami. I was at the game and we needed alot to happen in order for us to get in. Tenn beat Houston by one point no less 23-22. Not sure if the Jets knew about it or not but they finished horribly no doubt. At that point we knew the Jets couldn't beat any sorry teams to end the season so it was better off. They would have easily lost the first game and we would still have shotty's confusing senseless offense to watch again.
    Don't mind him any attention.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    All we kept hearing was how simplified Sparano's offense was. Just line up and run the play. Less thinking. Then we started hearing about the audibles and site adjustments. Now we are hearing it is the same as Schotty's. So basically we have nothing but contradictions.

    But our OL coach has a SB ring.

    I will wait and see how this offense comes out Week 1. Almost anything would be an upgrade from last year.
    Yeah kind of the point I was trying to make. I don't think it's the "line em up and smash em" type offense that has been advertised. It's the same plays, just called with a bigger mouth. I feel like Sparano=Schotty+Tom Moore+Rex Ryan's attitude

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    Why would he say the offense is "basically the same", and "very difficult"? or whatever he said exactly, but that was the jist.
    Cos maybe he was being honest. I agree with RayRay, I see nothing negative to be taken from McElroy's comments.

    Many of you feed off negativity and go sniffing for it until you find something to sink your fangs into.

    I don't think he's very happy about the Tebow move, and I can't blame him for that, but I can blame him for this.
    Blame him for what? For giving thoughtful answers when questioned by newyorkjets.com?

    It's only OTAs and already everyone can see that things are being run much differently, and we know from past history that their offenses are as different as two of the same style offenses can be.
    McElroy has the current playbook. What do you have that qualifies your word over his?

    How do you know the true extent Sparano is changing the previous Jets playbook other than changing the verbiage?

    The most important thing that should be different is that we will run these plays in practice to death, before we move on to some new "can't miss" play that ends up confusing our own team.
    I'm confused already - are you on the Jets staff? Were you on it last year too?

    And who knows? Maybe Sparano will be the suckiest OC in Jets history.

    I won't be surprised. He was 0-7 as HC last season and had his house on the market by Halloween.

    Given his resume, there certainly aren't any indicators that he'll be calling perfect games out of the gate without some bumps, pains, or learning curve as a newbie OC.

  13. #53
    Well now I'm seeing a lot of contradiction, not necessarily from anyone specific, but just in how we view how NFL teams run offenses. First everyone complains that Schotty's offense is "too complex". Then we hear that Sparano's offense is totally different and will make things much easier, and we're all happy. Now, McElroy says they're basically the same offense, and people say that offenses are all the same? Maybe you could see where I'm a bit lost

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    That one play really sums up Sanchez's 53 starts as an NFL QB.

    If he hits that pass, more than likely Greene gets around the edge for the go-ahead touchdown.

    Sanchez had no pressure whatsoever on that play, but still threw the ball 2-yards behind an open receiver 5 yards downfield.

    That one play, cost the Jets a playoff trip last year.
    Sanchez was pressured by Odrick but it was a bad throw.

    The pick before that was when Taylor ran around Brick like a traffic cone and hammered Sanchez.

    The first pick was when Taylor pushed Brick into Sanchez like a tin man and Brick quit the block altogether - he decided the play ended - and allowed Taylor to grab Sanchez.

    Mark got hammered all day, even on plays he made.

    A win over Miami wasn't enough - Jets needed help from other teams to make the playoffs, but don't let facts spoil your fun.

  15. #55
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    I'm just looking at this as an addition by subtraction in regards to Sparano in replace of Shotty.

    2006: 25th in total offense, 18th in points.
    2007: 26th in total offense, 25th in points.
    2008: 16th in total offense, 9th in points.
    2009: 20th in total offense, 17th in points.
    2010: 11th in total offense, 13th in points.
    2011: 25th in total offense, 13th in points.

    After 6 seasons, Shooty's offenses averaged out to 20th in total offense and 15th in scoring.

    QB's such as Pennington and Favre had much better seasons the following year after leaving Shotty's offense.

    Pennington (2006 and 2007 combined): 492/745, 66%, 5,418 yards, 27 TD's/25 INT's, QB rating of 83.8.

    Pennington (2007 with the Dolphins): 321/476, 68.8%, 3,653 yards, 19 TD's/7 INT's, QB rating of 97.4 inside of a completely different offense/playbook.

    Favre (2008): 343/522, 65.7%, 3,472 yards, 22 TD's/22 INT's, QB Rating of 81.0.

    Favre: (2009): 363/531, 68.4%, 4,202 yards, 33 TD's/7 INT's, QB Rating of 107.2 inside of a completely different offense/playbook.

    Now it's time to see if Sanchez can continue this streak of having a better season following an offensive coordinator change from Shotty Jr.

    Now, I'm not blaming everything on Shotty either. As a Jets fan, I understand that Shotty was thrown under bad situations as an offensive coordinator. Forced to work with a limited QB in Pennington (due to shoulder injuries) during his first two seasons as OC. An awful Kellen Clemens starting under center for 7 games during 2007 didn't help his situation at all. An aging Favre who played the last couple of weeks hurt wasn't an ideal situation for Shotty's offense of 2008. A rookie in Sanchez created for the 4th QB in as many seasons as offensive coordinator etc, etc.

    I just feel that it's time for a change of direction in regards to our offense, because whatever Shotty was doing (in my eyes awful situational play calling) wasn't working. We'll soon find out a lot in regards to Shotty in St.Louis and Sanchez with Sparano.

  16. #56
    Play design was horrible with schotty. All 5 recievers running the same depth down field (3rd and 8, all 5 running 7yds down field) ONLY TAKES 3 OR 4 DEFENDERS to defend that. recievers should be on different levels. Put your playmakers in open space.. so they can make plays. Most of the time Nobody was ever "open" and that's why. Play Design. And you Sanchez haters can expect more roll outs and bootlegs all over the field this year. Watch Sanchez make big plays down the field this year!!!

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacksonHtsJetFan View Post
    Well now I'm seeing a lot of contradiction, not necessarily from anyone specific, but just in how we view how NFL teams run offenses. First everyone complains that Schotty's offense is "too complex". Then we hear that Sparano's offense is totally different and will make things much easier, and we're all happy. Now, McElroy says they're basically the same offense, and people say that offenses are all the same? Maybe you could see where I'm a bit lost
    You're 100% correct.

    This contradicts everything we had previously read or heard.

    I don't blame McElroy. Like I said eralier, I think he's a smart dude who just shoots from the hip.

    I'm hoping the biggest difference is in the situational play-calling. Down and distance. With the flexibility and time to audible.
    Last edited by Jordy; 07-09-2012 at 10:07 AM.

  18. #58
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    I am sure to Mcelroy the offenses probably seem similar. It is only his second season in the NFL and I am sure the concepts learned so far are probably the same. The real significant differences are going to be seen on gameday when we see how Sparano actually calls a game. I think we all can agree that the biggest problem with Shotty was his inability to have a feel for the game and his inability to make any in-game adjustments based on what the defenses were doing. Its not so much the specific play you call, but rather when you call it.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    I am sure to Mcelroy the offenses probably seem similar. It is only his second season in the NFL and I am sure the concepts learned so far are probably the same. The real significant differences are going to be seen on gameday when we see how Sparano actually calls a game. I think we all can agree that the biggest problem with Shotty was his inability to have a feel for the game and his inability to make any in-game adjustments based on what the defenses were doing. Its not so much the specific play you call, but rather when you call it.
    +1

    Hopefully too, less shifting and movement.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacksonHtsJetFan View Post
    Well now I'm seeing a lot of contradiction, not necessarily from anyone specific, but just in how we view how NFL teams run offenses. First everyone complains that Schotty's offense is "too complex". Then we hear that Sparano's offense is totally different and will make things much easier, and we're all happy. Now, McElroy says they're basically the same offense, and people say that offenses are all the same? Maybe you could see where I'm a bit lost
    Maybe this will help....

    http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/201...uarterbac.html

    Several players have talked about the verbiage in Sparano's system being simpler than in Brian Schottenheimer's offense. How so?


    You can get in and out of the huddle faster. I think a big part of what Coach Sparano is wanting to do is increase tempo and run more plays, so maybe by having less words, then it really helps as far as getting out of the huddle. Last year, we might tag eight different routes, thereís six or seven different guys on things in the play call, where it would just get a little wordy at times. Itís just a lot easier getting in and out of the huddle and everybody knowing what to do. ... We have just as many plays if not more, but as far as the amount of words that are said in the huddle, it is significantly less.

    Can you give an example of how a call might be simpler for an individual player?


    You might have a combo route, where there is one call on one side and another call on the other side. Or we have maybe just a learned route, where it is one of our staples of our offense weíll carry week to week, where we call one word and everybody has to know what theyíre doing.

    In Sparano's system, quarterbacks must learn the offense from the inside out, starting with protections. Is that different from last year?


    You see it inside out, and thatís the only way to do it. From the front back, and inside out, thatís the best way to do it. Last year there were more concrete rules, as far as maybe a certain protection, thatís what we do; a certain defense, this is the way we want to protect it; a blitz look, this is the way we want to protect it. This year it can be anything at all different times. We can change the line call, we can change a "Mike" point, we can change the route. Itís a lot of freedom from the quarterback's perspective, and it has been really helpful.

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