Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 45

Thread: Some teams face big free-agent calls

  1. #21
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    7,653
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 124 View Post
    Not sure if they'll be able to do it again, but if teams are allowed to move open cap space from this season into next year's cap again, the Jets are currently $5.86 million under the cap. Bring that into next year along with the likely departures of Bart Scott, Calvin Pace and one unexpected, and they'll be fine. The one thing Mike Tannenbaum can do well is move around the cap to work in the franchises favor. He's not exactly the greatest evaluator of talent, but he is a cap genius.
    The guy is an average GM, he is not a cap genius, he is just willing to push money into the future by buying on credit. A cap genius would not have signed contracts that would be paying Pace and Scott 20 mill this year.

    I understand that the jets are 5.6 under the cap, (by the way why is that number valid, while the # that espn posted about the jets being 18mil over next year are questioned?) But about 1/3 of that will be used on the PS and some of it will be used up paying bonus for incentives met. Some of it will most likely be used to sign a FA during the year as an injury replacement also.

  2. #22
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    7,653
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 124 View Post
    Not sure if they'll be able to do it again, but if teams are allowed to move open cap space from this season into next year's cap again, the Jets are currently $5.86 million under the cap. Bring that into next year along with the likely departures of Bart Scott, Calvin Pace and one unexpected, and they'll be fine. The one thing Mike Tannenbaum can do well is move around the cap to work in the franchises favor. He's not exactly the greatest evaluator of talent, but he is a cap genius.
    The guy is an average GM, he is not a cap genius, he is just willing to push money into the future by buying on credit. A cap genius would not have signed contracts that would be paying Pace and Scott 20 mill this year with out the ability to cut them.

    I understand that the jets are 5.6 under the cap, (by the way why is that number valid, while the # that espn posted about the jets being 18mil over next year are questioned?) But about 1/3 of that will be used on the PS and some of it will be used up paying bonus for incentives met. Some of it will most likely be used to sign a FA during the year as an injury replacement also. The jets will be luck to roll 1/2 of that figure over.

  3. #23
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    7,653
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by lamont_jordan_rules View Post
    ... i did find it interesting reading this part ...

    Detroit Lions: . By the end of 2013, though, four-fifths of the Lions' projected starting offensive line will hit the market.

    Oakland Raiders: offensive tackle Jared Veldheer are free agents after the 2013 season.

    Kansas City Chiefs: Offensive tackle Branden Albert, are in the final year of their contracts.




    ... hope that doesn't indicate that Tanny is waiting until next year to see if Hunter can get his $h*t together and if not there will be some options out there ... but it certainly is a possibility ...



    l_j_r

    I bet the lions fans are saying good riddance.

  4. #24
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    19,075
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    The guy is an average GM, he is not a cap genius, he is just willing to push money into the future by buying on credit. A cap genius would not have signed contracts that would be paying Pace and Scott 20 mill this year.

    I understand that the jets are 5.6 under the cap, (by the way why is that number valid, while the # that espn posted about the jets being 18mil over next year are questioned?) But about 1/3 of that will be used on the PS and some of it will be used up paying bonus for incentives met. Some of it will most likely be used to sign a FA during the year as an injury replacement also.
    Lets give credit where its due (same with blame), Tanny is extremely adept at manuevering the cap. We can stay away from the genius label, as thats over used, but every time some talking head comes out with a list of teams that are in cap hell, the Jets are very often on it. And then, when FA comes, they are able to move things around and make it work and make necessary moves. Doesn't mean that they can always go for the top player, but the Jets have always been able to make the salary cap work for them. And, while people on this board conveniently ignore it, you can't go for the splashy moves every year. Sometimes the Jets are players in FA, sometimes they aren't. You can make the typical "credit card" argument, but the Jets success with the cap hasn't merely been short term - its been that way for a number of years now.

    Considering how "top heavy" the Jets are (and have been) in terms of talent, its pretty remarkable that the Jets have not lost anyone to Free Agency in recent history. The most significant Free Agent defection has been Brad Smith - not all that damaging.

    Tanny has been hit or miss with the draft and has too frequently gone for quality over quantity, and his actual FA acquisitions (on the talent side) haven't always paid off. From that perspective, I'd agree that he's about average. But, I trust the guy completely when it comes to managing the cap.

  5. #25
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    19,540
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post


    No ****, captain obvious

    This can be said every year, for every team.

    Jets will go through changes at LB and because of the cap and will draft and or sign new players in FA.

    How do the Jets not have flexibility? Do you know what their books look like?

    The team has already begun the overhaul at the position with players like Davis, Maybin, and maybe even Sapp. Next off-season, there will be new efforts to tweak in areas and rebuild in areas, around the cap.

    The point of the comments in the thread is that the "experts" have been saying the Jets will be in cap hell and have no flexibility for years, but every year, just like most teams, decisions are made, changes are made

    And how do you know the changes next year won't be better than what they have this year? We don't even know what we have this year yet.
    1. Not going to take that bait.

    2. They were over the cap, had to restructure Brick to make room. THAT is the definition of no flexibility. So yeah.

    3. No ****, captain obvious. That is what I said.

  6. #26
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    16,531
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    The guy is an average GM, he is not a cap genius, he is just willing to push money into the future by buying on credit. A cap genius would not have signed contracts that would be paying Pace and Scott 20 mill this year.
    What a bunch of crap

    That number is based on maneuverings at earlier points in their contracts, these aren't original numbers based on original deals, he made the moves based on other maneuverings with the rest of the players on the team and the contracts the team has them signed to. If you are going to criticize, know what the hell you're talking about.

    I understand that the jets are 5.6 under the cap, (by the way why is that number valid, while the # that espn posted about the jets being 18mil over next year are questioned?) But about 1/3 of that will be used on the PS and some of it will be used up paying bonus for incentives met. Some of it will most likely be used to sign a FA during the year as an injury replacement also.
    1/3 of 5.6 million will NOT be used towards the cap after signing players to the PS. Do you have any idea how much players make on the PS?

    Christ, stop posting, you have no ****ing clue of what you're talking about.

  7. #27
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    6,211
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by lamont_jordan_rules View Post
    ... i did find it interesting reading this part ...

    Detroit Lions: . By the end of 2013, though, four-fifths of the Lions' projected starting offensive line will hit the market.

    Oakland Raiders: offensive tackle Jared Veldheer are free agents after the 2013 season.

    Kansas City Chiefs: Offensive tackle Branden Albert, are in the final year of their contracts.




    ... hope that doesn't indicate that Tanny is waiting until next year to see if Hunter can get his $h*t together and if not there will be some options out there ... but it certainly is a possibility ...



    l_j_r

    I know your joking some what with those comments. Still like the Safety position this year, teams don't let those players (OT) become available . Those players aren't hitting the open market after 2013. ONe way or the other , they will be taken care of by their current team. (Franchise tag or long term deal).

    There is a better chance AL Davis come back from the dead, than Jared Veldheer not the Raiders left tackle for the next decade.

  8. #28
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    7,653
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    What a bunch of crap

    That number is based on maneuverings at earlier points in their contracts, these aren't original numbers based on original deals, he made the moves based on other maneuverings with the rest of the players on the team and the contracts the team has them signed to. If you are going to criticize, know what the hell you're talking about.



    1/3 of 5.6 million will NOT be used towards the cap after signing players to the PS. Do you have any idea how much players make on the PS?

    Christ, stop posting, you have no ****ing clue of what you're talking about.
    I know what I am talking about, granted only about 100,000 is the min for each practice squad player, if he is signed for the min amountyou can sign a player to. But if you want the guy to stay with the team, most teams pay the guy more so that he is not tempted to go to another team during the season and play for the vet min. and play for the min salary for that team, last year the pats paid Nick McDonald and Kattani the regular min for 2nd year players so that they wont be tempted to bolt.

    I am sure the Jets do the same for a couple of players every year.

    I know the players numbers were caused by earlier machinations by the front office, it is those moves that allowed him to sign new players or re-sign who were at that time existing jet FA that now leave them with those numbers limiting potential moves at this time or next year. He traded cap flexibility at that time for cap constraints in the future.

    IMO he thought the cap was going to go up faster than what it has under the new CBA.

    Ray, how much of that 5.6 mill you think will be left in 2012?

    I said that they will be lucky to roll 1/2 of that over, that is the point.

  9. #29
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    16,531
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    1. Not going to take that bait.

    2. They were over the cap, had to restructure Brick to make room. THAT is the definition of no flexibility. So yeah.

    3. No ****, captain obvious. That is what I said.
    There is no bait, you have a tendency to talk down to people, not to mention your obsession with playing Dick Tracy "Homer patrol."

    The Jets had the flexibility to make a number of FA signings, and also re-sign a couple of their own, including their starting QB.

    As you said, with the young core of the team locked up, they weren't major players in FA anyway.

  10. #30
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    3,016
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'm going to stay away from the "Jets will be in cap hell" argument as it does seem to be said every year, and every year it works out. I do think the challenges are mounting however. In 2013, they will likely have to cut Hunter, Pace, and Scott saving about $19.5 million. Of course, they then have to replace those players.

    I believe the following are the free agents come 2013 who will need to be-signed or replaced:

    Brandon Moore
    Dustin Keller
    Mike DeVito
    Shonn Greene
    Matt Slauson
    Aaron Maybin
    Ropati Pitoitua
    Jay Richardson
    Laron Landry
    Yeremiah Bell


    And you also have Revis lurking out there looking for another huge payday.

    So is it cap hell? No. But it could be challenging and is definitely a result of pushing money into the future. As others have noted, I think Tanny (and many others) expected the cap to increase year after year. No one realized (at least on the player side) that the league would have to artificially borrow for future years to shore up the cap so it wouldn't decrease.

  11. #31
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    19,075
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoYaztremski View Post
    I'm going to stay away from the "Jets will be in cap hell" argument as it does seem to be said every year, and every year it works out. I do think the challenges are mounting however. In 2013, they will likely have to cut Hunter, Pace, and Scott saving about $19.5 million. Of course, they then have to replace those players.

    I believe the following are the free agents come 2013 who will need to be-signed or replaced:

    Brandon Moore
    Dustin Keller
    Mike DeVito
    Shonn Greene
    Matt Slauson
    Aaron Maybin
    Ropati Pitoitua
    Jay Richardson
    Laron Landry
    Yeremiah Bell


    And you also have Revis lurking out there looking for another huge payday.

    So is it cap hell? No. But it could be challenging and is definitely a result of pushing money into the future. As others have noted, I think Tanny (and many others) expected the cap to increase year after year. No one realized (at least on the player side) that the league would have to artificially borrow for future years to shore up the cap so it wouldn't decrease.
    Brandon Moore - Probably gone. He's getting old. Can't see the team spending big buck there.
    Dustin Keller - Real decision to make. Not sure if he's worth what he'll want.
    Mike DeVito - With the recent drafts, won't be getting big money. Just a guess, the Jets will let him test the FA Market and he'll probably leave. Unfortunate, but that's simply reality.
    Shonn Greene - Probably won't give him big money. Can't see him getting it elsewhere. If he leaves, no major issue unless he really steps up.
    Matt Slauson - Will be re-signed for a decent, not huge, deal.
    Aaron Maybin - BIG question mark. Could go either way.
    Ropati Pitoitua - Already been cut.
    Jay Richardson - Blah.
    Laron Landry - Who knows? If he is healthy and performs, perhaps he'll take a minor discount to stay here. Very minor probably. But will look for payday.
    Yeremiah Bell - Meh. Vet minimum if anything.

    The 2013 FA class of the Jets doesn't really worry me too much. Hunter and Moore will have to be replaced but at least one of their replacements is on the roster in Howard and Caleb S. We need to see how it plays out, but I wouldn't be surprised if one of them gets substantial playing time this year.

  12. #32
    Hall of Fame
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Atlanta via NJ
    Posts
    8,000
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    I know your joking some what with those comments.
    ... wasn't joking, just didn't bother to look too far into clayton's info ...

    ... only point i was trying to make is that OT's will be on the market next season if Hunter cr*ps the bed, as they are every year ... sorry Veldheer was included ...








    l_j_r

  13. #33
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    6,211
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by lamont_jordan_rules View Post
    ... wasn't joking, just didn't bother to look too far into clayton's info ...

    ... only point i was trying to make is that OT's will be on the market next season if Hunter cr*ps the bed, as they are every year ... sorry Veldheer was included ...








    l_j_r
    Forget the Raiders(was just using them as example) just Like with Dbrickshaw Ferguson teams don't let quality Left tackle hit the open market.
    Only type of top Tackles to come free are some with serious injury questions(like jared gaither) He was 100% healthy and there was no question of injury he would never have seen the open market. That basically was the only point, I was making.

  14. #34
    Hall of Fame
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Atlanta via NJ
    Posts
    8,000
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Forget the Raiders(was just using them as example) just Like with Dbrickshaw Ferguson teams don't let quality Left tackle hit the open market.
    Only type of top Tackles to come free are some with serious injury questions(like jared gaither) He was 100% healthy and there was no question of injury he would never have seen the open market. That basically was the only point, I was making.

    ... don't disagree with you ...

    ... hunter better not s*ck as much this year ...





    l_j_r

  15. #35
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    6,211
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by lamont_jordan_rules View Post
    ... don't disagree with you ...

    ... hunter better not s*ck as much this year ...





    l_j_r
    When you have the two most important position filled on the oline(lt and center) It's a lot easier to fill those other positions than if you were looking to fill those two other ones. Jets like they did with the Dline the last two years. The Jets have to start investing in more olineman earlier than the sixth round.

  16. #36
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Electric Avenue
    Posts
    25,851
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    There is no bait, you have a tendency to talk down to people, not to mention your obsession with playing Dick Tracy "Homer patrol."

    The Jets had the flexibility to make a number of FA signings, and also re-sign a couple of their own, including their starting QB.

    As you said, with the young core of the team locked up, they weren't major players in FA anyway.
    I guess that makes you the J. Edgar Hoover of the SOJF Bureau.

    A "number of FA signings?"

    Laron Landry, Yeremiah Bell and .........................a couple of Joe Schmoes?

  17. #37
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    16,531
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    I guess that makes you the J. Edgar Hoover of the SOJF Bureau.

    A "number of FA signings?"

    Laron Landry, Yeremiah Bell and .........................a couple of Joe Schmoes?
    It's been a few days, Jordy wants somebody to play, errr, argue with, and in typical fashion douches up a thread with his BS.

    Landry, Schilenz, Bell, Maybin resigning, Jay Richardson, Josh Brown, and then Sanchez re-signing are all players who figure to have decent to significant roles on the team, all done in FA, or re-signings that created cap flexibility and allowed the Jets to make other moves as well as still having 6 million under the cap.

  18. #38
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Electric Avenue
    Posts
    25,851
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    It's been a few days, Jordy wants somebody to play, errr, argue with, and in typical fashion douches up a thread with his BS.
    Says the guy whose first post in this thread started with...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post


    No ****, captain obvious
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19
    Landry, Schilenz, Bell, Maybin resigning, Jay Richardson, Josh Brown, and then Sanchez re-signing are all players who figure to have decent to significant roles on the team, all done in FA, or re-signings that created cap flexibility and allowed the Jets to make other moves as well as still having 6 million under the cap.
    Don't twist the facts to fit your argument.

    We all know what you meant by "a number of FA signings." Maybin was our own RFA and was tendered. Sanchez wasn't a FA.

    Like I said, Landry, Bell and a couple of Joe Schmoes. And Landry and Bell were signed for peanuts as far as FA's go. Schilens was barely above the vet minimum. Bottom line is, the other poster was correct. The Jets had very little room to sign FA's. You just like to argue.

  19. #39
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Upper East Side
    Posts
    6,761
    Post Thanks / Like
    Eh, that free agent class isn't loaded with guys I'm terrified to lose.

    The toughest guy to replace will probably be Moore, but that's been coming for awhile. Greene, Hunter, and most of the other guys on that list are dime a dozen. Keller is probably the first "big name" type guy we're going to lose to FA. He'll probably get paid by someone while we reinvest in a more versatile TE who is a better blocker.

    The bigger issue is replacing Calvin Pace/Bryan Thomas (Davis was clearly drafted to replace Scott)... OLB is not an area where we have great depth.

  20. #40
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Electric Avenue
    Posts
    25,851
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Eh, that free agent class isn't loaded with guys I'm terrified to lose.

    The toughest guy to replace will probably be Moore, but that's been coming for awhile. Greene, Hunter, and most of the other guys on that list are dime a dozen. Keller is probably the first "big name" type guy we're going to lose to FA. He'll probably get paid by someone while we reinvest in a more versatile TE who is a better blocker.

    The bigger issue is replacing Calvin Pace/Bryan Thomas (Davis was clearly drafted to replace Scott)... OLB is not an area where we have great depth.
    Absolutely.

    OL (guard and T) and OLB are going to be big areas of need after this season. I don't think Maybin and Sapp replace a guy like Pace and BT. They are not likely to be run stoppers. Hopefully Davis can replace Scott. I imagine that's the hope of the FO as well. Safety will continue to be an area of concern, unless the two rookies step up.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us