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Thread: How do Jet fans see Joe Mcknight replacing L tomlinson

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Love it.

    Questionable circumstances.

    LOL.

    Let's try to diminish anything the guy has ever done, let's make excuses for it all.

    Btw, on his blocked FG for a TD against Dallas, the TE lined up on McKnight's side was going through a divorce and didn't have his mind on blocking.

    So that doesn't count either.

    _
    We have discussed this before. It was a game against the Bills on a Sunday towards the end of the year where they were clearly mailing it in and where they came into the game with the worst run defense in the NFL by a country mile. And that (league worst) was when the Bills defense was actually trying! It was also a game where Mark Sanchez dinged and not going to be playing much. Everyone from the head coach on down declared that the week was all about getting the running game in better shape for the playoffs.

    If you want to treat it as if McKnight put that performance in against a Ravens or a Steelers defense because it supports your rhetorical postion, it does not make much sense to me, but fine go ahead. He ran for a buck fifty again the Ravens....

    NOT.

    Aside from that game what is his excuse for being invisible (at best) as a RB during the other 34 games of his professional career?

    I do not think I am minimizing anything. I think you are massively inflating next to nothing.

    I think you are still fighting whatever Danny Woodhead wars you became embroiled in on these boards and for you that is somehow tied in to the success or failure of Joe McKnight as a runner. Two years later you still cannot wait to go back and say I told you so to whoever it was you were having those arguments with. At some point this all starts to sound like Bitonti's multi-decade long defense of Vernon Gholston and/or D-Rob.

    Maybe the extra 15 pounds he put on over the winter will turn him into a bruising power back. We all know how often stories like that turn out to have a happy ending.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    We have discussed this before. It was a game against the Bills on a Sunday towards the end of the year where they were clearly mailing it in and where they came into the game with the worst run defense in the NFL by a country mile. And that (league worst) was when the Bills defense was actually trying! It was also a game where Mark Sanchez dinged and not going to be playing much. Everyone from the head coach on down declared that the week was all about getting the running game in better shape for the playoffs.

    If you want to treat it as if McKnight put that performance in against a Ravens or a Steelers defense because it supports your rhetorical postion, it does not make much sense to me, but fine go ahead. He ran for a buck fifty again the Ravens....

    NOT.

    Aside from that game what is his excuse for being invisible (at best) as a RB during the other 34 games of his professional career?

    I do not think I am minimizing anything. I think you are massively inflating next to nothing.

    I think you are still fighting whatever Danny Woodhead wars you became embroiled in on these boards and for you that is somehow tied in to the success or failure of Joe McKnight as a runner. Two years later you still cannot wait to go back and say I told you so to whoever it was you were having those arguments with. At some point this all starts to sound like Bitonti's multi-decade long defense of Vernon Gholston and/or D-Rob.

    Maybe the extra 15 pounds he put on over the winter will turn him into a bruising power back. We all know how often stories like that turn out to have a happy ending.
    You're right.

    I'm wrong.

    That wasn't an NFL game.

    It didn't count.

    My bad.

    _

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post

    and where they came into the game with the worst run defense in the NFL by a country mile.
    Btw, I was looking up the NFL stats, and I saw the standings for worst defense by a kilometer, by a blonde pubic hair, by a scootch and by a Parsek, but not by a country mile.

    Can you post a link?

    Thankee.

    _

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    No. You stop. The book is stiil out on him and he could still end up producing but up until now he has been average to poor in limited action as RB.

    JAG

    At best.

    The reasons for why that game against the Bills should taken with a grain of salt are well documented and they were discussed to death on these boards at that time. The worst run defense in the entire NFL by a country mile in a game after they had pretty much kissed goodbye to their season and were mailing it in. A game also where we were protecting our QB and went in fully intending to give the Bills a steady diet of runs all game long.

    So yes, he performed nicely in that game but by no stretch should that game be treated as as kind of a litmus test for whether or not he would be effective as a runner against real NFL defenses week in and week out. No, THAT Bills run defense and particularly on THAT week did not qualify.

    Besides that ONE SINGLE game you have ZERO GAMES out of a possible 35 or so during the NFL career of Joe McKnight (or 43 including preseason games) where he has looked like anything other than a JAG RB.

    Does he get more chances? Sure. But not an infinite amount. Running Backs are pretty much expected to be finished products as runners coming out of college. They may learn to block better or improve as a passing receivers out of the backfield. Pure running skills are not learned at the NFL level.

    Leon Washington by contrast, another 4th round pick was consistently and obviously a threat to do damage from his very first preseason game and almost every time he touched the ball thereafter. You could argue durabulity issues with Leon but the running talent was obvious. Heck, even Cedric Houston a few years ago showed more spark at that position. You didn't have to wait for third full season to see anything with Washington.

    McKnight is a decent special teams player at this point. He he yet to "show" anything more as a runner. Certainly not on any kind of a consistent basis.
    Dude was an all-pro?

  5. #85
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    what we saw from Leon Washington

    Excellent ST return guy

    Decent change of pace running back

    What we saw from Joe McKnight in year two

    Excellent ST return guy

    Decent change of pace running back


    hopefully Joe doesn't get injured like Leon did or end up as a return guy ONLY as Leon is for the Seasicks

  6. #86
    Bottom line on Joe Mac, another player who will need to prove he belongs this year

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    You're right.

    I'm wrong.

    That wasn't an NFL game.

    It didn't count.

    My bad.

    _
    The one thing that really bothered me in that game was that McKnight didn't have 1 rush for over 20 yards (18 being the longest). That's a credit to the offensive line. At some point he has to break one of those runs.

    And I believe the Bills didn't care at at point. 158 yards is impressive, but it's not without an asterix, IMO for various reasons.

  8. #88
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    ... this is a golden opportunity for mcknight to show what's in his tank ...

    ... with a new OC there really is a blank slate for all the rb's ... if he shows anything he easy can start taking 1st & 2nd down snaps as well as the 3rd down snaps that he's been pencilled in for ...




    l_j_r

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYJCAP2 View Post
    Dude was an all-pro?
    Mike Westhoff has turned a parade of returners into all pros under his Scheme Including chad Morton. If McKnight is unavailable for some reason then history tells us that Mike Westhoff will simply plug someone else into the unit and have great success.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Btw, I was looking up the NFL stats, and I saw the standings for worst defense by a kilometer, by a blonde pubic hair, by a scootch and by a Parsek, but not by a country mile.

    Can you post a link?

    Thankee.

    _
    Parsec I think but a cool reference nonetheless.

    If I recall correctly the Bills run defense was worst in the league and they were <gap> worse than the 31st ranked run defense. Plug in whatever word you are the most comfortable with.

    158 yds is still 158 yds but until there are other performances to confirm this potential it remains "questionable" in and of itself.

    My country mile links are broken right now. I am sure you understand.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    what we saw from Leon Washington

    Excellent ST return guy

    Decent change of pace running back

    What we saw from Joe McKnight in year two

    Excellent ST return guy

    Decent change of pace running back


    hopefully Joe doesn't get injured like Leon did or end up as a return guy ONLY as Leon is for the Seasicks
    No. Washington was a very effective runner from day 1. The questions about him were his ability to carry a starter's load with his small frame. Since we had a starting running back who was performing well, Leon was kept in his change of pace role. However he was electric almost every time he got in there and got his hands on the ball.

    McKnight has been "meh" in his change of pace role for two full seasons.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    No. Washington was a very effective runner from day 1. The questions about him were his ability to carry a starter's load with his small frame. Since we had a starting running back who was performing well, Leon was kept in his change of pace role. However he was electric almost every time he got in there and got his hands on the ball.

    McKnight has been "meh" in his change of pace role for two full seasons.
    I loved Leon, hated to see him go, but he also had fumble issues early on in his career.

    Just sayin.

    Let's see what McKnight does this year--this is his time to shine or he'll be gone.

    _

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    Parsec I think but a cool reference nonetheless.
    A Parsec is about 3.26 light-years, which is about 30.9 trillion (3.091013) kilometres or about 19.2 trillion (1.921013) miles.

    That's a bad defense.

    You were right.

    _

  14. #94
    I don't get the coninued hate for McKnight.

    He had his work ethic troubles his rookie season, sure, but he addressed them by workin out with LT and became a significant contributor last year.

    He was asked to bulk up to handle an increase workload and to make it easier for him to break tackles, and he shows up with 15 extra pounds of muscle.

    What I don't get is the people who won't even give him the chance to prove himself and see if he can handle a greater role, like he proved himself after his rookie season?

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    Mike Westhoff has turned a parade of returners into all pros under his Scheme Including chad Morton. If McKnight is unavailable for some reason then history tells us that Mike Westhoff will simply plug someone else into the unit and have great success.
    Still has to have the ability. Guys get cut everyday because they can't even play special teams, even for Westhoff.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtstar View Post
    I don't get the coninued hate for McKnight.

    He had his work ethic troubles his rookie season, sure, but he addressed them by workin out with LT and became a significant contributor last year.

    He was asked to bulk up to handle an increase workload and to make it easier for him to break tackles, and he shows up with 15 extra pounds of muscle.

    What I don't get is the people who won't even give him the chance to prove himself and see if he can handle a greater role, like he proved himself after his rookie season?
    I think there's only one poster in this thread who fits the bold. Everyone else is willing to give him a chance, but he does have some doubters (myself included).

    And except for that one poster, the doubt doesn't come from the fact that he threw up on some day in April in his rookie year. For me at least, it's because he's shown so little impact in the base offense over two full seasons. RBs typically splash in some way out of the gate - it's rare that you see a guy who does little to nothing for two years but then becomes a factor in year 3.

    All that said, the skill-set McKnight possesses is sorely needed on this team. He's going to get every shot this year - let's see what he does.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    I loved Leon, hated to see him go, but he also had fumble issues early on in his career.

    Just sayin.

    Let's see what McKnight does this year--this is his time to shine or he'll be gone.

    _
    I don't recall Leon having fumble issues but I will defer to your recollection on that.

    Otherwise agreed and somewhat agreed. This is time to put up performances but even if he does not then he may still be a cheap insurance policy and special teams ace. Wasn't there even some talk of converting him to DB at one point?

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYJCAP2 View Post
    Still has to have the ability. Guys get cut everyday because they can't even play special teams, even for Westhoff.
    We are saying the same thing. I think he is pretty good to very good on Specials. "Great" is reserved in my mind for people like Deion Sanders or Steve Tasker. Almost great might be Brad Smith who was as good at getting downfield to make a tackle as he was when he was returning kicks. Joe McKnight is pretty darned good on specials but not to the level of those others IMO.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    A Parsec is about 3.26 light-years, which is about 30.9 trillion (3.091013) kilometres or about 19.2 trillion (1.921013) miles.

    That's a bad defense.

    You were right.

    _
    We are agreed. Less than a parsec

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
    I think there's only one poster in this thread who fits the bold. Everyone else is willing to give him a chance, but he does have some doubters (myself included).

    And except for that one poster, the doubt doesn't come from the fact that he threw up on some day in April in his rookie year. For me at least, it's because he's shown so little impact in the base offense over two full seasons. RBs typically splash in some way out of the gate - it's rare that you see a guy who does little to nothing for two years but then becomes a factor in year 3.

    All that said, the skill-set McKnight possesses is sorely needed on this team. He's going to get every shot this year - let's see what he does.
    has he been given a chance, though? it's tough for him to show anything when Greene was carrying the load and LT was getting all the 3rd down snaps.

    it's a chicken-or-the-egg argument, i know, maybe he hasn't done enough to earn that playing time. but fwiw, he's been the team's primary source of offense in the only two games in which he's been the feature back (BUF in '10, DEN last year).

    i do agree with you that we sorely need his skill-set. not only as a change of pace back, but also as that potential home-run threat. hopefully he will make the most of his opportunity this season.

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