Basically if I read this correctly the courts are saying minorities are stupid and need to be graded on a curve. Correct me if i am wrong.
This is an issue I am personally invested in. I have been a volunteer firefighter on and off for 10 years. I know a countless number of guys on the job and personally took two of the three tests mentioned here (2043 and 7029).
I guess I'm coming to you all to see if I am crazy or not. Is there something more to this than a few well-placed goons receiving votes? Am I missing something?
Federal Judge Imposes Racial Quota on FDNY, Responding to Minorities Who Failed Entrance Exams
By Elizabeth Harrington
July 16, 2012
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(CNSNews.com) – A federal judge is ordering the New York City Fire Department to implement racial quotas to address grievances from minorities who failed entrance exams.
On July 5 in Brooklyn, Nicholas G. Garaufis, a Clinton-appointed judge for the Eastern District of New York, issued a ruling that requires two of every five newly hired fireman to be black and one of every five, Hispanic -- until the department has fulfilled the court-ordered quota of 186 black and 107 Hispanic hires.
The ruling allows back pay -- totaling an estimated $128.7 million -- for minorities who failed written tests.
The court order is a response to a lawsuit alleging that two placement exams (Written Exams 7029 or 2043) for the FDNY were discriminatory against blacks and Hispanics, because fewer minorities passed the exam than whites. (See copies of the exams here.)
The Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division is responsible for prosecuting cases under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The DOJ claims the written exams had an “unlawful disparate impact,” causing fewer minorities to be hired.
“Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits not only intentional discrimination, but also employment practices that appear to be fair in form but are discriminatory in operation,” the Department states in a fact sheet on the FDNY case. “A facially neutral employment practice, such as a written examination, that disproportionately excludes individuals from employment opportunities on the basis of their membership in a protected group, such as a particular race or national origin, and cannot be shown to be related to job performance, violates Title VII.”
Judge Garanufis ruled that any black or Hispanic individual who failed either written exam with a score of 25 out of 100 or higher is eligible to receive place on the priority hiring list as well as damages, including “non-economic damages.”
Non-economic damages are intended to compensate for the “lost intangible benefits of being a firefighter.” The intangible benefits include “prestige, job satisfaction, camaraderie, unique excitement, enjoyment of flexible scheduling, unusual employment stability, feeling of security derived from retiring with a full pension and lifetime medical benefits, and the potential for career advancement.”
All new hires must pass an updated test—Exam 2000—as long as it is found to comply with Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, the ruling states.
Further, Judge Garanufis ruled that minorities who were not hired because they failed the entrance exams must be paid a “retroactively higher salary” and receive “retroactive seniority” once they are hired through the new quota system. Retroactive seniority affects accrual of vacation and sick leave, among other benefits.
The Bush Justice Department filed suit against the FDNY in May 2007, challenging the exams that were first administered in 1999 and 2002. In July 2009, Judge Garaufis ruled that New York City had violated Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, and then in 2010 he found the city liable for “intentional discrimination against black applicants,” according to the DOJ.
In a previous ruling, Judge Garaufis accused the FDNY of being a “bastion of white male privilege.”
"While the City's other uniformed services and fire departments across the country have changed to reflect the communities they serve, employment as a New York City firefighter -- arguably 'the best job in the world' -- has remained a stubborn bastion of white male privilege," Garaufis wrote in October 2011.
Basically if I read this correctly the courts are saying minorities are stupid and need to be graded on a curve. Correct me if i am wrong.
You hit the nail on the head. If I knew it was the judges I would let it burn!
25%!?!? WOW. How can a written test be racist?
Do you know why companies/employers started standardized testing?
To make hiring practices "more fair".
Black, white, green, blue everybody takes a test.
So blacks don't score high enough on the tests, so now that's unfair too.
When is this nonsense going to end?
Unless there are questions on a test like this:
1. Joe is a stupid white devil redneck who likes to start fires. If he started 5 last month and 4 this month, how many liberals will he kill after the next Tea Party meeting?
then the test is not racist. More likely, its the Democrat Voter Registration questionnaire.
This premise is ridiculous. Every applicant has the opportunity to prepare for the exam. You're going to lower the standards and impose quotas, adding less-than-qualified candidates to the job. That's going to serve the public perfectly.The court order is a response to a lawsuit alleging that two placement exams (Written Exams 7029 or 2043) for the FDNY were discriminatory against blacks and Hispanics, because fewer minorities passed the exam than whites.
I'd love to hear any reasons why these people failed the test other than "the test is racist / biased". More like, we didnt prepare, we're dumbasses, or similar reasons.
A quick google search shows tons of resources available to help study for the exam. If you failed, you failed for a reason and a pretty valid one.
Last edited by Brooklyn Jet; 07-18-2012 at 10:48 AM.
The FDNY are heroes not racists. The racists are the people that believe that a standardized test needs to be different for each race. That by definition is racism. The racists believe that "minorities" aren't smart enough to answer the same questions as white people. That is a sad display of modern day racism.
Thought this was relevant...
Where is the advantage for white people?
The 10 Most Idiotic Questions from FDNY Entrance Exams
By Steven Thrasher Wed., Dec. 15 2010 at 9:20 AM
While reporting this week's cover story "Hosed," the Voice obtained two FDNY Entrance Exams (identified as "7029" and "2043"). We took all the questions ourselves, and were kind of amazed at how idiotic some of them were. Answering them, we had to wonder: why shouldn't minorities be expected to do as well on these questions as white people? But equally troubling was this thought: is answering these questions correctly really going to make someone a good firefighter?
Here are what we considered the 10 most painfully obvious questions. Take them yourself and let us know what you think.
10. A group of firefighters and their officer respond to a fifth floor apartment in a seven-story building. When they arrive at the apartment, they are told that the contents of a wastepaper basket was on fire, and the fire was extinguished prior to their arrival. The officer instructs the firefighters to ventilate, or remove, the smoke from the apartment by first using a method that will not cause damage to property. Which one of the following would be the most appropriate method for the firefighters to use to remove the smoke?
A) Breaking out all the windows with a crowbar.
B) Pulling down the ceiling with a six-foot hook.
C) Cutting through the floors with an eight-pound axe.
D) Manually opening all the windows and removing the screen.
9. Firefighters are required to operate on the subway tracks during emergencies in the subway stations. Which one of the following would present the greatest threat to the safety of a firefighter working on the subway tracks?
A) A subway platform crowded with people.
B) Rubbish burning in a small garbage can located on a subway platform.
C) A subway car entering a station.
D) A maintenance crew working on the track.
8. Firefighters conduct building inspections to locate potential life-threatening conditions in the even there is a fire. Which one of the following would the most-serious threat to life in the event of a fire?
A) An unlocked front door in a building.
B) A locked basement door in a building.
C) A car in the driveway of a building.
D) A building with a missing fire escape.
7. A fire department instructor is explaining the hazards of operating on a frozen lake to a newly-assigned firefighter. Which of the following is an action that a firefighter should not take in this situation?
A) Put on a personal flotation device.
B) Bring heavy equipment onto the lake.
C) Prohibit civilians from going out onto the lake.
D) Engage firefighter safety line prior to operating on ice.
6. After firefighters are sure that a fire has been extinguished, and that there is no hazard in the building, they begin a salvage operation. Salvage involves moving and covering furniture and other properties, covering broken windows and holes in the building with plastic, and redirecting and cleaning up water to minimize damage. After extinguishing a fire in a high-rise apartment building, firefighters begin salvage operations. Which of the following pieces of property is in the most danger of being damaged?
A) A leather couch that has been burned on one side.
B) A large screen television with a broken screen.
C) An antique painting hanging under a leaking ceiling.
D) A pillow laying [sic] on the floor in a puddle of water.
One of the most idiotic illustrations included in the entrance exam, unrelated to any particular one of these idiotic questions.
5. Firefighters have responded to an apartment for an emergency water leak and are now standing in front of the door to the apartment. Which one of the following actions should the firefighters take first to gain entry into the apartment?
A) Knock loudly on the door and then try the doorknob.
B) Cut a hole in the door with a portable saw.
C) Strike one of the door hinges with the back of an axe.
D) Locate the fire escape and climb into the apartment through a window.
4. A fire department instructor is explaining to a newly-assigned firefighter the hazards of electrical wires that have fallen in the street. Which one of the following is an action that a firefighter should NOT take?
A) Keep people away from the fallen wires.
B) Use caution when working near energized wires.
C) Handle highly-energized wires while standing in a puddle of water.
D) Notify the utility company and tell them to respond to the emergency.
3. Firefighters must stop the flow of traffic in the safest possible manner when operating at the scene of fires or other emergencies located on highways. Firefighters have been assigned to stop traffic at night while operating at the scene of a car fire located on a highway. Which one of the firefighters is the most likely to attract attention of motorists in the safest manner?
A) Firefighter Reilly, who is waving her hands back and forth.
B) Firefighter Chang, who is jumping up and down.
C) Firefighter Ali, who is yelling as loud as she can.
D) Firefighter Diaz, who is waving his flashlight in a back and forth motion.
2. Firefighters are sometimes expected to administer aid to victims who are bleeding. To control bleeding, firefighters must perform the following actions in the order given.
i. Apply direct pressure to the wound by placing a sterile dressing against the wound and applying firm pressure.
ii. If #1 is unsuccessful, elevate the bleeding part of the body above the level of the victim's heart.
iii. If #1 and #2 are unsuccessful, find the nearest artery by the wound and press the artery against the underlying bone.
iv. If #1, #2, and #3 are unsuccessful, use a tourniquet, which should be placed between the heart and the wound. Note: Tourniquets should only be used for severe, life threatening bleeding that cannot be controlled by other means.
Firefighter Jacobs has just come upon a young woman who has just started bleeding profusely from the lower part of her right arm. Which one of the following actions should Firefighter Jacobs take first to control the woman's bleeding?
A) Hold the woman's right arm above her head.
B) Apply a tourniquet just below the woman's right elbow.
C) Press the artery that is closest to the wound against a bone.
D) Use a sterile dressing to apply direct pressure to the wound.
1. While operating at the scene of a car fire on a street, a firefighter was told to inform the officer of any dangerous conditions at the scene. Which one of the following conditions would be considered most dangerous to the firefighter operating at the scene of the car fire?
A) The car is leaking gasoline.
B) The car has four flat tires.
C) Vehicle traffic has come to a complete stop at the scene.
D) The car's windshield is broken.
Answers: 10-D, 9-C, 8-D, 7-B, 6-C, 5-A, 4-C, 3-D, 2-D, 1-A
An idiotic multiple-choice diagram
If I were a minority candidate who did prepare for the exam (and i believe test prep is available in addition to online and text resources), Id be insulted. The test is basically composed of memory questions, reading comprehension, and your ability to retain and understand basic information you need for the job. The courts are saying essentially that minorities need extra slack in those areas.
Letting in unqualified candidates puts additional pressure on veteran firefighters who now need to coach up these new guys even more because they lack the basic knowledge level, putting lives in danger.
Anyone ever check the SAT or ACT scores on college football or basketball players? Especially minorities? How about the graduation rate on minorities?
Check the GPAs of college football and basketbal players (including women BB players) compared to say the cross country teams, volleyball, tennis, golf, swimming, track (distance runners only please), soccer or lacrosse.
It's discrimination I say. Discriminatory to let many minorities into college. They have modest academic preparation. Sorry.
Now, he's a good guy but a bit volatile in his reactions to things, and there's no telling whether his firehouse was typical or not. But from his reports, at least, I'm not surprised by allegations of racist attitudes in the FDNY
I don't know about anyone else, but I want someone strong to carry me out of my burning house god forbid I should ever need it.
Affirmative action fails in this regard. Equal opportunity is important but it should not force the hiring of minorities just for the sake of having minorities.
If I was a minority, I would be insulted by this. I would want to stand on my own merits.
Now this does not mean that the FDNY does not hire racists however the FDNY as an entity is not racist and it's exam is not racist.
Last edited by DDNYjets; 07-18-2012 at 12:27 PM.
Just WTF. i want everyone to get a fair shot but affirmative action, whoch this is on HGH, of course, has done more to hurt this country, including minorities, than nearly any other single practice, imo.
How about a rising tide raises all ships? What does lower the bar continuously do?
I believe it should be if you are looking for 100 people, the top 100 people are offered the job. Period. A combination of mental and physical ability for firemen as an example.
As far as the military, I do NOT believe women belong in combat arms - that's infantry, armor, artillery. Strength and speed are important there. Frankly, some men do not belong in these branches either. Too bad if women are denied "leadership" chances. Pick another career.