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Thread: Sheriff Joe and the "Birther" Argument

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    "Reign of Terror". What a joke.

    Face it, old man - your party so 'courageously' abandoned the responsibility of governing in favor of achieving one goal, Obama must be a one term President, then y'all nominate Mitt Romney to run against him - the John Kerry of the GOP.

    And even if somehow he did win, think of the backlash from GOP congressional tactics the past four years. You don't think the roles will reverse and the D's will block every goddam thing Mitt Romney pushes for?

    Reading conservatives on this site, you would think the President was a King that could pass whatever laws he wanted and that Congress has no power.
    Dumbama doesn't pass any laws he wants - he issues executive orders to circumvent the Constitution.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    It's ridiculous how you equate OWS with Birtherism.

    At least OWS has a bone to pick, several years after a brutal financial crises and a thirty year trend of middle class erosion.

    Birtherism has no basis in reality. That's a lunatic fringe.
    So far, OWSers have been arrested for theft, rape, burglary, and assorted other crimes because they're all a bunch of dirtbags. One woman ran out on her family and shacked up with a waiter. The cream of society.

    Mind your own country, dumass.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    Birtherism has no basis in reality. That's a lunatic fringe.
    How do you explain this book jacket, printed by Obama's literary agent in 1991? When an author gets his work published in a book, he inevitably reviews the book before it goes to press. Don't you think Obama would have caught and corrected such an egregious mistake?


  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    Dumbama doesn't pass any laws he wants - he issues executive orders to circumvent the Constitution.
    So you're referring to one instance, then applying to his whole administration?

    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    So far, OWSers have been arrested for theft, rape, burglary, and assorted other crimes because they're all a bunch of dirtbags. One woman ran out on her family and shacked up with a waiter. The cream of society.

    Mind your own country, dumass.
    Because of some terrible isolated instances happen in a protest, that means their entire message or reason for protesting is suddenly invalid?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakin318 View Post
    How do you explain this book jacket, printed by Obama's literary agent in 1991? When an author gets his work published in a book, he inevitably reviews the book before it goes to press. Don't you think Obama would have caught and corrected such an egregious mistake?

    What's more realistic?

    A mistake in editing/sensationalism to sell a book, or a grand conspiracy throughout the United States government to pretend a non-American elected President is an American?

    It's common f***ing sense.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    What's more realistic?

    A mistake in editing/sensationalism to sell a book, or a grand conspiracy throughout the United States government to pretend a non-American elected President is an American?

    It's common f***ing sense.
    Here's a link to the website of Obama's literary agency, Dystel & Goderich. It's an archived page from 2007. Scroll down to Obama's bio.

    http://web.archive.org/web/200702021...entlist.html#o

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    What's more realistic?

    A mistake in editing/sensationalism to sell a book, or a grand conspiracy throughout the United States government to pretend a non-American elected President is an American?

    It's common f***ing sense.
    I think the most realistic answer is that Obama used whatever birthplace he felt would best suit him at any given time in his early years, prior to his serious political aspirations.

    I don't think this is an editorial mistake that somehow slipped through, I think Obama used his "differentness" as a selling point at various points when it suited his early career goals.

    Noen of which means he wasn't, in fact, born here in the U.S. of course. Dishonesty in PR to sell oneself at an early age does not mean a source document is fraudulent. And on this, I trust that the Federal Govt. did a review of the qualifying documents and found them legitimate.

    It does raise one question though......who in the Federal Govt. does that review of elligibillity source documents? I have to admit, I have no idea.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    I think the most realistic answer is that Obama used whatever birthplace he felt would best suit him at any given time in his early years, prior to his serious political aspirations.

    I don't think this is an editorial mistake that somehow slipped through, I think Obama used his "differentness" as a selling point at various points when it suited his early career goals.

    Noen of which means he wasn't, in fact, born here in the U.S. of course. Dishonesty in PR to sell oneself at an early age does not mean a source document is fraudulent. And on this, I trust that the Federal Govt. did a review of the qualifying documents and found them legitimate.

    It does raise one question though......who in the Federal Govt. does that review of elligibillity source documents? I have to admit, I have no idea.
    Book jacket was 1991. The last link I provided was 2007.

    Who knows what the truth is, but to categorize birthers as "the lunatic fringe" is comical. Obama was a client to multiple literary agencies from the early 90's to as recently as 2007 who clearly stated that he was born in Kenya.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakin318 View Post
    Who knows what the truth is, but to categorize birthers as "the lunatic fringe" is comical.
    Agree to disagree. I mantain that any focus on this "issue" is a net loser at the polls in the section of voters not already wedding to voting (R).

    Obama was a client to multiple literary agencies from the early 90's to as recently as 2007 who clearly stated that he was born in Kenya.
    It's an archived book jacket. It's not going to be edited after the fact, and even if it was, that act too would simply engender more "look, coverup!!!!!" wargarbl.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakin318 View Post
    Here's a link to the website of Obama's literary agency, Dystel & Goderich. It's an archived page from 2007. Scroll down to Obama's bio.

    http://web.archive.org/web/200702021...entlist.html#o
    Again, your proof is literary agents describing their clients.

    My proof is a motherf***ing birth certificate that was released.

    There is no debate on this subject. Either you're batsh*t insane or not.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Agree to disagree. I mantain that any focus on this "issue" is a net loser at the polls in the section of voters not already wedding to voting (R).



    It's an archived book jacket. It's not going to be edited after the fact, and even if it was, that act too would simply engender more "look, coverup!!!!!" wargarbl.
    The website bio was changed in April, 2007 (two months after Obama launched his presidential campaign), but only slightly. In fact, only one single word was changed: "Kenya" suddenly became "Hawaii."

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    Again, your proof is literary agents describing their clients.

    My proof is a motherf***ing birth certificate that was released.

    There is no debate on this subject. Either you're batsh*t insane or not.
    First of all, there is no "proof," either way. There's only evidence. And there's a significant amount of evidence on the birther side of things for inquisitive and intelligent people to wonder if it's something that might be pursued. On the other hand, one could just react angrily and claim "there is no debate" and start name-calling against people who disagree with them.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakin318 View Post
    Book jacket was 1991. The last link I provided was 2007.

    Who knows what the truth is, but to categorize birthers as "the lunatic fringe" is comical.
    no, it isn't. But then, the folks on the lunatic fringe always see themselves as sane. Ask the 9-11 truthers if they are on the "lunatic fringe" and they'd give the same "that's nuts, we're not lunatics, look at all this supporting evidence we have" answer you just gave.

    The lunatic fringe is defined by the center, and the center thinks truthers and birthers are *&^%ing nuts.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    no, it isn't. But then, the folks on the lunatic fringe always see themselves as sane. Ask the 9-11 truthers if they are on the "lunatic fringe" and they'd give the same "that's nuts, we're not lunatics, look at all this supporting evidence we have" answer you just gave.

    The lunatic fringe is defined by the center, and the center thinks truthers and birthers are *&^%ing nuts.
    Generally speaking, agreed.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    no, it isn't. But then, the folks on the lunatic fringe always see themselves as sane. Ask the 9-11 truthers if they are on the "lunatic fringe" and they'd give the same "that's nuts, we're not lunatics, look at all this supporting evidence we have" answer you just gave.

    The lunatic fringe is defined by the center, and the center thinks truthers and birthers are *&^%ing nuts.
    ok, first of all, I'm not necessarily a birther. I think it's just as likely that Obama lied (or allowed others to lie) about his place of birth for whatever academic or monetary gain it served at the time. Lord knows he's proven that he has zero compunction against lying like a rug any time it suits his ambitions.

    As for the 9-11 truthers, the "evidence" they give is almost invariably a skewed and belabored interpretation of incidents and actions that are frankly open to interpretation (as loony as the interpretation might be). The two pieces of evidence I provided are not open to that same interpretation: they clearly state in no uncertain terms -- by two different literary agencies that Barack Obama worked with -- that "Barack Obama was born in Kenya."

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakin318 View Post
    First of all, there is no "proof," either way. There's only evidence. And there's a significant amount of evidence on the birther side of things for inquisitive and intelligent people to wonder if it's something that might be pursued. On the other hand, one could just react angrily and claim "there is no debate" and start name-calling against people who disagree with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by shakin318 View Post
    ok, first of all, I'm not necessarily a birther. I think it's just as likely that Obama lied (or allowed others to lie) about his place of birth for whatever academic or monetary gain it served at the time. Lord knows he's proven that he has zero compunction against lying like a rug any time it suits his ambitions.

    As for the 9-11 truthers, the "evidence" they give is almost invariably a skewed and belabored interpretation of incidents and actions that are frankly open to interpretation (as loony as the interpretation might be). The two pieces of evidence I provided are not open to that same interpretation: they clearly state in no uncertain terms -- by two different literary agencies that Barack Obama worked with -- that "Barack Obama was born in Kenya."
    This is not 2007, where you first heard about the guy and wondered about his history.

    This is 2012, he's been President for four years, released his birth certificate, the Governor of Hawaii confirmed he's American born and there have been countless partisans trying as much they can to "prove" he wasn't born here.

    The inside of a book jacket doesn't mean d*ck compared with all the above, and you know it. But you're just looking to throw sh*t at a political enemy, regardless of whether it's true or not.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakin318 View Post
    they clearly state in no uncertain terms -- by two different literary agencies that Barack Obama worked with -- that "Barack Obama was born in Kenya."
    Which in no way proves he was, and the reasons for doing so are as open to alternative explaination as any of the truthers evidence.

    In any event, the point (for me) is that you'll get vastly better traction amongst undecided voters with issues than with conspiracy theories.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    This is not 2007, where you first heard about the guy and wondered about his history.

    This is 2012, he's been President for four years, released his birth certificate, the Governor of Hawaii confirmed he's American born and there have been countless partisans trying as much they can to "prove" he wasn't born here.

    The inside of a book jacket doesn't mean d*ck compared with all the above, and you know it. But you're just looking to throw sh*t at a political enemy, regardless of whether it's true or not.
    How is providing a link to two pieces of evidence that exist, and that were created by someone Obama worked with, "throwing sh:t?" It's there for you to click on and form your own opinion. I'm not telling you what to think, and frankly I don't give a f-ck what you think.

    You're having the typical angry lib meltdown reaction of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "blahblahblahblahICantHearYoublahblahblah."

    As far as "throwing sh:t at a political enemy, regardless of whether it's true or not" -- you've perfectly defined the Obama campaign here in '012 as defined and executed by David Axelrod and the shameful lapdog media.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakin318 View Post
    How is providing a link to two pieces of evidence that exist, and that were created by someone Obama worked with, "throwing sh:t?" It's there for you to click on and form your own opinion. I'm not telling you what to think, and frankly I don't give a f-ck what you think.

    You're having the typical angry lib meltdown reaction of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "blahblahblahblahICantHearYoublahblahblah."

    As far as "throwing sh:t at a political enemy, regardless of whether it's true or not" -- you've perfectly defined the Obama campaign here in '012 as defined and executed by David Axelrod and the shameful lapdog media.
    You seem to think it's more believable that there's a massive conspiracy, including the US government and the state of Hawaii, to cover up Obama's illegitimacy as President than for the inside of a book jacket to be untrue.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakin318 View Post
    ok, first of all, I'm not necessarily a birther. I think it's just as likely that Obama lied (or allowed others to lie) about his place of birth for whatever academic or monetary gain it served at the time. Lord knows he's proven that he has zero compunction against lying like a rug any time it suits his ambitions.

    As for the 9-11 truthers, the "evidence" they give is almost invariably a skewed and belabored interpretation of incidents and actions that are frankly open to interpretation (as loony as the interpretation might be). The two pieces of evidence I provided are not open to that same interpretation: they clearly state in no uncertain terms -- by two different literary agencies that Barack Obama worked with -- that "Barack Obama was born in Kenya."
    Again there's no arguing with the crypto-liberal mindset.

    It pains them so much to gravitate to Romney they must defend and extend their stupid enabling of B. Hussein by conflating any reasonable inquiry into his opaque past with debunked-from-day-1 trooferism.

    Assocations w/ terrorists, commies and other miscreants foreign and domestic, past and present - None of America's business

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