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Thread: 14 Killed, 50 Wounded in Shooting Colorado Movie Theater

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    They both planned for sheep.

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    too true.

  2. #162
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    I dont think it could have prevented what happened but I wonder it people put signs on the doors of their businesses that said something like "armed guard on premises" if that would deter some robberies. Probably not. They would probably just come with more perps and weapons.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    I dont think it could have prevented what happened but I wonder it people put signs on the doors of their businesses that said something like "armed guard on premises" if that would deter some robberies. Probably not. They would probably just come with more perps and weapons.
    Attempts at larger acts of terrorism have been thwarted.

    It's all about the right people being at the right place, at the right time.

    Unfortunately there was no one there that could have helped minimize the damage.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri_0515 View Post
    I feel naked if I dont have it on me now. It might be weird, and I may be sick in the head for doing it, but I always run scenarios in my head where I go. Going out to eat, the supermarket, movie theatre. I find myself thinking what would happen if a crazed man walks in, from what angle I can take him out, where the exits are. My wife looks at me sometimes and asks me what I'm thinking about. I always tell her nothing.
    +1

    You left out how we always have to sit where we can see the door.


    BTW when you're deep in thought like that you know the wife is wondering if you're thinking about banging the waitress when in reality you're going over tactical options.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotReign View Post
    +1

    You left out how we always have to sit where we can see the door.


    BTW when you're deep in thought like that you know the wife is wondering if you're thinking about banging the waitress when in reality you're going over tactical options.
    My wife and I have a strategy. She knows what I want her to do in case of such an emergency.

    I remind her every once in a while (jokingly), but I do it on purpose. I've been doing it for years now. After the CO shooting, she said "at least we would have had a chance". That's all you can ask for.

  6. #166
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    The police response was fantastic. They got to the scene in something like 90 seconds and didn't hesitate to get into harm's way. Also, they didn't let 'procedure' stop them from using their police cars to transport victims to the hospital.

    With all the negative things we see about cops it is sure nice to read something about them acting decisively and courageously. Well done Coppers.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnails View Post
    The police response was fantastic. They got to the scene in something like 90 seconds and didn't hesitate to get into harm's way. Also, they didn't let 'procedure' stop them from using their police cars to transport victims to the hospital.

    With all the negative things we see about cops it is sure nice to read something about them acting decisively and courageously. Well done Coppers.
    +1,000,000

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnails View Post
    The police response was fantastic. They got to the scene in something like 90 seconds and didn't hesitate to get into harm's way. Also, they didn't let 'procedure' stop them from using their police cars to transport victims to the hospital.

    With all the negative things we see about cops it is sure nice to read something about them acting decisively and courageously. Well done Coppers.
    They also had this nutjob in cuffs within 7 minutes of the first 911 call coming in. Well done in deed.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotReign View Post
    You bring up a reasonable point however we don't have to speculate what would happen if an armed maniac started shooting in a theater full of (apparently) unarmed people....we know what happened.

    A co worker on my job always says that its better to be the sheepdog than the sheep off duty. I used to feel a little goofy when carrying off duty to perform simple errands but that's changed over the years...sadly.
    Feel the same way, although I've gotten a little lax the past couple of years, TBH.

    Personally, I think that had there been someone there with a gun to engage the perp that this could have been a more tragic situation. The chances of hitting someone unintended surely would have been high, to say nothing of the poor tactical disadvantage of firing in rapidly varying light conditions with little cover aside from panicked civilians and movie seats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri_0515 View Post
    I feel naked if I dont have it on me now. It might be weird, and I may be sick in the head for doing it, but I always run scenarios in my head where I go. Going out to eat, the supermarket, movie theatre. I find myself thinking what would happen if a crazed man walks in, from what angle I can take him out, where the exits are. My wife looks at me sometimes and asks me what I'm thinking about. I always tell her nothing.
    It's always on my mind when I don't have it. It's not a case of ego, either. It's pretty much like you described, you start going through tactical scenarios and you realize that you are not equipped to deal with them in a sufficient manner without some iron in your belt.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnails View Post
    The police response was fantastic. They got to the scene in something like 90 seconds and didn't hesitate to get into harm's way. Also, they didn't let 'procedure' stop them from using their police cars to transport victims to the hospital.

    With all the negative things we see about cops it is sure nice to read something about them acting decisively and courageously. Well done Coppers.
    All the talk about how he slipped through the cracks is foolhardy. There is no way to stop this before hand. Are we to arrest every high school nerd that didn't attend the prom or walk with their graduating class?


    I can't imagine having metal detectors at theaters. this could happen in a mall, library etc.

  11. #171
    On the point of civilians carrying firearms. Personally I don't have a lot of experience with hand guns but do a lot of shooting upstate NY with rifles and shot guns. My favorite deer rifle is my Remington 700 .243 cal. w/ 3x9 Leupold scope, nothing special but nice and very accurate. I used to take that to the Huntington range and sight it in every year, and could place all my shots inside a silver dollar @ 100 yards when shooting from a bench with a rest. I always considered myself a very good shot. Many years back I went to California to visit my sister and I go with my brother in law one day to an indoor range to do some shooting. First time I ever fired a handgun. He brought a Glock 9mm and I think it a 32cal. nickel snubnose. Long story short, I embarrassed myself. Big difference, I couldn't believe how much concentration it took just to get on the paper. That night we were kicking back watching Fargo and I remember the scene when Peter Stormare shoots the guy in the as he's running away across the field at night and I just laughed. It isn't like in the movies.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    You dismiss my post as pretty speculative then roll right into your own pretty speculative scenario, no?

    Pretty much every eyewitness account I've heard here so far (and admittedly I havent heard them all) puts this guy as easily identifiable and visible as the shooter, even with the gas.

    My comments do assume one thing; That this coward never would have done this had he thought there was even one person with a gun in that theatre to oppose him, much like I believe Colin Ferguson (another coward) never would have walked methodically through an LIRR car shooting people in the head had he believed there would be another armed person on the train to oppose him. He expected and planned for sheep...and he got them.

    They both planned for sheep.

    -
    We may be disagreeing with different scenarios in mind. An off duty officer or other law enforcement individual in the crowd, or someone similarly trained, sure I wish there had been. Could have saved lives perhaps. The scenario I was envisioning and commenting on is one where many or most of the audience is strapped. This is the same populace, recall, that you and I seem to agree most of which can't navigate a shopping cart down a grocery store aisle without major phail. So the likelihood that they would all have the presence of mind to whip out their pieces and down a bad guy in a dark movie theatre at a midnight showing of a Batman movie with everyone going nuts without causing substantial collateral damage...is in doubt.

    As for the shooter "planning for sheep," I've no doubt he assumed that with the body armor, smoke bombs, and 3 or 4 weapons
    he was carrying he'd be be unopposed ballistically. But christ it was a freaking movie. Why denigrate and deride the dead and wounded as "sheep"? They were kids out to watch a movie. They're supposed to all be carrying guns just in case the movie is invaded by a phsyco with semi automatic weapons?
    Last edited by BushyTheBeaver; 07-22-2012 at 01:32 AM.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by BushyTheBeaver View Post
    We may be disagreeing with different scenarios in mind. An off duty officer or other law enforcement individual in the crowd, or someone similarly trained, sure I wish there had been. Could have saved lives perhaps. The scenario I was envisioning and commenting on is one where many or most of the audience is strapped. This is the same populace, recall, that you and I seem to agree most of which can't navigate a shopping cart down a grocery store aisle without major phail. So the likelihood that they would all have the presence of mind to whip out their pieces and down a bad guy in a dark movie theatre at a midnight showing of a Batman movie with everyone going nuts without causing substantial collateral damage...is in doubt.

    As for the shooter "planning for sheep," I've no doubt he assumed that with the body armor, smoke bombs, and 3 or 4 weapons
    he was carrying he'd be be unopposed ballistically. But christ it was a freaking movie. Why denigrate and deride the dead and wounded as "sheep"? They were kids out to watch a movie. They're supposed to all be carrying guns just in case the movie is invaded by a phsyco with semi automatic weapons?
    You'd be surprised as to the ability an average man has to focus in times of need.

    Although there are officers who are not capable of doing their jobs, just like any profession, dont underestimate someone who is trying to save the life of himself, his friends and his family.

    I'm pretty sure most of the officers on JI would have handled the situation as best as they could, and most would have been successful.

    This kid wasn't a Delta Force Commando. He was a reckless man with a plan.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushyTheBeaver View Post
    We may be disagreeing with different scenarios in mind. An off duty officer or other law enforcement individual in the crowd, or someone similarly trained, sure I wish there had been. Could have saved lives perhaps. The scenario I was envisioning and commenting on is one where many or most of the audience is strapped. This is the same populace, recall, that you and I seem to agree most of which can't navigate a shopping cart down a grocery store aisle without major phail. So the likelihood that they would all have the presence of mind to whip out their pieces and down a bad guy in a dark movie theatre at a midnight showing of a Batman movie with everyone going nuts without causing substantial collateral damage...is in doubt.

    As for the shooter "planning for sheep," I've no doubt he assumed that with the body armor, smoke bombs, and 3 or 4 weapons
    he was carrying he'd be be unopposed ballistically. But christ it was a freaking movie. Why denigrate and deride the dead and wounded as "sheep"? They were kids out to watch a movie. They're supposed to all be carrying guns just in case the movie is invaded by a phsyco with semi automatic weapons?
    The term sheep in this context is simply a reference to their vulnerability not anything else.

    I saw a vid of an armed 70 something who took on and shot 2 armed robbers in an cafe recently so you can't assume that no one would've done anything.

    As far as the POS he offered zero resistance when the police apprhended him at gunpoint. He may have been wearing body armor ONLY because he feared that someone in the crowd would shoot him back as he demonstrated no desire to shoot at the police. I don't think he wore it to engage in a firefight, he likely wore it so no one would hurt him while he was slaughtering people. Further indication that he was a coward is that he booby trapped his apartment to get cops because he was too much of a pvssy to take on anyone directly who were capable of defending themselves.

    I agree that gun owners should be required by law to take training courses although there is nothing to adequately train a civilian for that. As mentioned earlier I and undoubtedly every other cop here have been trained to respond to active shooter scenarios. One of the key aspects of AST is providing supressing fire.

    If a gun carrier happened to be in the theater and started shooting back it may have prevented the carnage from reaching the level that it did. Of course this is speculation but for those who claim an armed theater goer would have somehow made the massacre even worse is borderline illogical. We saw what happened when no resistance was offered in this case- not blaming the victims because as you said they were mostly young people out to enjoy a movie. Having said that I'd rather have an armed secretary in the crowd and risk getting hit with their stray round than turning my back and running from a mass murderer meeting zero resistance.
    Last edited by PatriotReign; 07-22-2012 at 08:27 AM.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotReign View Post
    The term sheep in this context is simply a reference to their vulnerability not anything else.

    I saw a vid of an armed 70 something who took on and shot 2 armed robbers in an cafe recently so you can't assume that no one would've done anything.

    As far as the POS he offered zero resistance when the police apprhended him at gunpoint. He may have been wearing body armor ONLY because he feared that someone in the crowd would shoot him back as he demonstrated no desire to shoot at the police. I don't think he wore it to engage in a firefight, he likely wore it so no one would hurt him while he was slaughtering people. Further indication that he was a coward is that he booby trapped his apartment to get cops because he was too much of a pvssy to take on anyone directly who were capable of defending themselves.

    I agree that gun owners should be required by law to take training courses although there is nothing to adequately train a civilian for that. As mentioned earlier I and undoubtedly every other cop here have been trained to respond to active shooter scenarios. One of the key aspects of AST is providing supressing fire.

    If a gun carrier happened to be in the theater and started shooting back it may have prevented the carnage from reaching the level that it did. Of course this is speculation but for those who claim an armed theater goer would have somehow made the massacre even worse is borderline illogical. We saw what happened when no resistance was offered in this case- not blaming the victims because as you said they were mostly young people out to enjoy a movie. Having said that I'd rather have an armed secretary in the crowd and risk getting hit with their stray round than turning my back and running from a mass murderer meeting zero resistance.
    You'd be surprised what kind of fukc heads I work with. These are incompetent people who are supposed to protect the public. I would rather have my grandmother along side me in a gunfight than some of these guys.

    I'm no commando or anything but I'm part of a SWAT team, so I know a little bit about a little bit. You would think that departments would send ALL of their officers through basic SWAT just to learn the procedures and angles, room entries. It's ridiculous.

  16. #176
    Cops shoud've shot his ass.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri_0515 View Post
    You'd be surprised what kind of fukc heads I work with. These are incompetent people who are supposed to protect the public. I would rather have my grandmother along side me in a gunfight than some of these guys.

    I'm no commando or anything but I'm part of a SWAT team, so I know a little bit about a little bit. You would think that departments would send ALL of their officers through basic SWAT just to learn the procedures and angles, room entries. It's ridiculous.
    A friend of mine is a long time SFPD; shot on duty; he has survived much. He's "Tactical" now.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoastOffensive View Post
    A friend of mine is a long time SFPD; shot on duty; he has survived much. He's "Tactical" now.
    I think I have said here before...I was a big lib when I graduated college. Became a cop, saw "the real world" and changed my tune. Mebbe I had to pull the trigger a time or too, I wont say.

    We....are a complicated, awful collection of sh*tbirds.

    We dress it up, but we are all apes in pants.



    -
    Last edited by 32green; 07-22-2012 at 11:29 PM.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    I think I have said here before...I was a big lib when I graduated college. Became a cop, saw "the real world" and changed my tune. Mebbe I had to pull the trigger a time or too, I wont say.

    We....are a complicated, awful collection of sh*tbirds.

    We dress it up, but we are all apes in pants.



    -
    You're a good egg, 32. Even when we disagree.

    Concur we are all apes in pants. But for the kids' sake, I'm not ready to give up on the notion we can aspire to be more.
    Last edited by BushyTheBeaver; 07-23-2012 at 01:07 AM.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    I think I have said here before...I was a big lib when I graduated college. Became a cop, saw "the real world" and changed my tune. Mebbe I had to pull the trigger a time or too, I wont say.

    We....are a complicated, awful collection of sh*tbirds.

    We dress it up, but we are all apes in pants.



    -
    Yes, liberals don't see the "the real world"

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