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Thread: Revisiting Gun Laws in the U.S.

  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    As opposed to those who think the only people who should have guns are the Government? We can trust them, right?

    Because History shows how well THAT idea works.

    Americans do not like the idea of having the rights and freedoms revoked by the state on the flimsiest of reasons, and with respect, the mass murder of 20 little kids by ONE crazy chuckle**** with a host of other issues and factors, is not cause to revoke in part or in full, the rights of the 2nd Amendment for tens of millions of law abiding people.

    If it were, the same folks demanding gun control today would have wholesale support for Voter ID laws. Of course, they don't....

    I'm well aware some folks are desperate to give all their rights to the glorious State, who can then dole those rights back out as it sees fit "fairly" to those who "deserve" them under the tenants of "social Justice", etc, etc, etc. But you're going to have to live with the fact that many think THAT is a far greater danger than the guns in the first place.

    A disarmed populace is a powerless populace.
    You took a statement in which I pointed out a simple irony and launched straw man argument. I haven't haven't voiced support for any of the things you mentioned.


    I favor some very simple reforms. I actually believe I've heard you voice support for some if not all of them. So it may be that we agree more than we disagree. But the NRA, I'm sure, will violently opposed to all of them, I'm sure.

    1. Continued ban on automatic weapons.

    2. Criminal and mental health background check on gun buyers.

    3. Ban on sales of high-volume magazines. I realize there will be a debate on the definition of "high volume". Maybe 12-15. At the very least, I see no reason a civilian needs 30 shell mags.

    4. Minimum age 21 to purchase semi-automatic weapons and ammunition for such.

    5. Five day waiting period to buy a weapon from a registered dealer.

    6. Closing of the gun show loop, by which I mean the ability of criminals or straw buyers to obtain weapons with no checks whatsoever. Confess I don't have the quick answer here, but it shouldn't be too hard.

    Also, just as auto-manufacturers have been required to show progress towards higher gas mileage vehicles, I'd like to see weapons manufactures show commitment and progress towards safer guns (e.g, reduce accidental discharge, harder to convert semi-auto to auto).
    Last edited by BushyTheBeaver; 12-22-2012 at 03:55 PM.

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushyTheBeaver View Post
    You took a statement in which I pointed out a simple irony and launched straw man argument. I haven't haven't voiced support for any of the things you mentioned.


    I favor some very simple reforms. I actually believe I've heard you voice support for some if not all of them. So it may be that we agree more than we disagree. But the NRA, I'm sure, will violently opposed to all of them, I'm sure.

    1. Continued ban on automatic weapons.

    2. Criminal and mental health background check on gun buyers.

    3. Ban on sales of high-volume magazines. I realize there will be a debate on the definition of "high volume". Maybe 12-15. At the very least, I see no reason a civilian needs 30 shell mags.

    4. Minimum age 21 to purchase semi-automatic weapons and ammunition for such.

    5. Five day waiting period to buy a weapon from a registered dealer.

    6. Closing of the gun show loop, by which I mean the ability of criminals or straw buyers to obtain weapons with no checks whatsoever. Confess I don't have the quick answer here, but it shouldn't be too hard.

    Also, just as auto-manufacturers have been required to show progress towards higher gas mileage vehicles, I'd like to see weapons manufactures show commitment and progress towards safer guns (e.g, reduce accidental discharge, harder to convert semi-auto to auto).
    ================================================

    Some thoughts.

    1. the ban on full automatic weapons will never expire, since the 20's there has always been a ban with the exception of class 3 weapons dealers and individuals who go through an extensive federal check and a 6 month wait, these guns start out around $10,000 because you can only buy an old gun, it is illegal to produce any more.

    2. Criminal and mental back ground checks, the loop hole here is in some states you are allowed to buy guns at gun shows with out a back ground check. And in most states face to face sales between residents of the same state who are not FFL dealers can buy and sale with out a BG check.
    Other wise you must go through a criminal BG check which includes a check for mental issues that have been reported. HIPPA precludes most of these mental issues from being reported.
    As a private citizen I am not allowed under federal law and neither are licensed dealers, to sale to any one I suspect is not a legal resident of my state, may be crazy, a felon, has pending felony charges, is a criminal.

    3. High capacity magazines. No constructive comment

    4. MInimum age to purchase semi auto weapons and ammo. Semi autos, bolt action, lever action, revolvers, single shot firearms use the same ammo as a rule.

    5. Waiting period for purchase. No constructive comment.

    6. Closing of the gun show loop holes. Easy enough to do, as most states have already done so.

  3. #423
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    So....what would constitute a legitimate mental health reason to deny someone a firearm?

    Would purchasing a semiautomatic weapon because you're afraid of the outcome of an election and then keep them unattended in your house constitute a good reason to deny someone a firearm?


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  4. #424
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    ARM THE TEACHERS UNIONS!

  5. #425
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    Piers Morgan is such a Gomer, then on the other hand we have Terrible Ted a true American Patriot.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA7f3BZslmc

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharrow View Post
    ARM THE TEACHERS UNIONS!
    **** yeah!!

    More guns!!!


    Pew! Pew! Pew!


    You feeling lucky punk?


    Woot!


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  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnails View Post
    ================================================

    6. Closing of the gun show loop holes. Easy enough to do, as most states have already done so.
    Howso?

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushyTheBeaver View Post
    Howso?
    ================================================== =

    In Oregon, any gun sale initiated at a gun show, must be processed through a FFL (Federal Firearm Licensed Dealer), this has eliminated private sales at gun shows almost completely.

    So in Oregon I can sale a gun to a licensend dealer at a gun show, if I want to sale to a regular Joe at a gun show, then I would have to mosey over to a FFL booth and pay them a fee to process the paper work ($25 to $75).

    Whereas in the old days, almost any one could rent a table and sell from his personal collection and it would be considered a face to face sale.
    Last edited by gunnails; 12-22-2012 at 07:06 PM.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnails View Post
    Piers Morgan is such a Gomer, then on the other hand we have Terrible Ted a true American Patriot.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA7f3BZslmc
    What? Back in my college days (70s) we had every issue of High Times Magazine in my suite. There was an interview with Ted and how he orchestrated an incredible, and inadvertently hilarious, way to get out of going to Vietnam.

    Over the years, through fawning sycophants, "The Nuge" has rehabilitated his persona into one that bleeds nothing but red, white, and blue. Don't tell that to all the dead and wounded service personnel from the Vietnam era. Not directed at you, guns, but Nugent is the consummate fraud,

    From High Times:

    High Times:How did you get out of the draft?

    Ted Nugent: Ted was a young boy, appearing to be a hippie but quite opposite in fact, working hard and playing hard, playing rock and roll like a deviant. People would question my sanity, I played so much. So I got my notice to be in the draft. Do you think I was gonna lay down my guitar and go play army? Give me a break! I was busy doin’ it to it. I had a career Jack. If I was walkin’ around, hippying down, getting’ loaded and pickin’ my ass like your common curs, I’d say “Hey yeah, go in the army. Beats the poop out of scuffin’ around in the gutters.” But I wasn’t a gutter dog. I was a hard workin’, mother****in’ rock and roll musician.

    I got my physical notice 30 days prior to. Well, on that day I ceased cleansing my body. No more brushing my teeth, no more washing my hair, no baths, no soap, no water. Thirty days of debris build. I stopped shavin’ and I was 18, had a little scraggly beard, really looked like a hippie. I had long hair, and it started gettin’ kinky, matted up. Then two weeks before, I stopped eating any food with nutritional value. I just had chips, Pepsi, beer-stuff I never touched-buttered poop, little jars of Polish sausages, and I’d drink the syrup, I was this side of death, Then a week before, I stopped going to the bathroom. I did it in my pants. poop, piss the whole shot. My pants got crusted up.

    See, I approached the whole thing like, Ted Nugent, cool hard-workin’ dude, is gonna wreak havoc on these imbeciles in the armed forces. I’m gonna play their own game, and I’m gonna destroy ‘em. Now my whole body is crusted in poop and piss. I was ill. And three or four days before, I started stayin’ awake. I was close to death, but I was in control. I was extremely antidrug as I’ve always been, but I snorted some crystal methedrine. Talk about one wounded motherf*cker. A guy put up four lines, and it was for all four of us, but I didn’t know and I’m vacuuming that poop right up. I was a walking, talking hunk of human poop. I was six-foot-three of sin. So the guys took me down to the physical, and my nerves, my emotions were distraught. I was not a good person. I was wounded. But as painful and nauseous as it was – ‘cause I was really into bein’ clean and on the ball – I made gutter swine hippies look like football players. I was deviano.

    So I went in, and those guys in uniform couldn’t believe the smell. They were ridiculin’ me and pushin’ me around and I was cryin’, but all the time I was laughin’ to myself. When they stuck the needle in my arm for the blood test I passed out, and when I came to they were kicking me into the wall. Then they made everybody take off their pants, and I did, and this sergeant says, “Oh my God, put those back on! You f*cking swine you!” Then they had a urine test and I couldn’t piss, But my poop was just like ooze, man, so I poop in the cup and put it on the counter. I had poop on my hand and my arm. The guy almost puked. I was so proud. I knew I had these chumps beat. The last thing I remember was wakin’ up in the ear test booth and they were sweepin’ up. So I went home and cleaned up.

    They took a putty knife to me. I got the street rats out of my hair, ate some good steaks, beans, potatoes, cottage cheese, milk. A couple of days and I was ready to kick ass. And in the mail I got this big juicy 4-F. They’d call dead people before they’d call my ass. But you know the funny thing about it? I’d make an incredible army man. I’d be a colonel before you knew what hit you, and I’d have the baddest bunch of motherf*ckin’ killers you’d ever seen in my platoon. But I just wasn’t into it. I was too busy doin’ my own thing, you know?

  10. #430
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    Longer this debate goes on the stupider it gets. Banning guns, School Commando Guards - both are gigantic waste of time and resources.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnails View Post
    Piers Morgan is such a Gomer, then on the other hand we have Terrible Ted a true American Patriot.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA7f3BZslmc
    Ted Nugent sucks. Mr Tough Guy Commando does nothing but endorse Draft Dodgers like Bush Jr, Cheney and Romney. I support gun rights and hunting but I can't stand this friggin tool he thinks he's sooooo clever.

  12. #432
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    Ted Nugent is to guns what Gary Busey is to mental health.

    Lolz


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  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnails View Post
    ================================================== =

    In Oregon, any gun sale initiated at a gun show, must be processed through a FFL (Federal Firearm Licensed Dealer), this has eliminated private sales at gun shows almost completely.

    So in Oregon I can sale a gun to a licensend dealer at a gun show, if I want to sale to a regular Joe at a gun show, then I would have to mosey over to a FFL booth and pay them a fee to process the paper work ($25 to $75).

    Whereas in the old days, almost any one could rent a table and sell from his personal collection and it would be considered a face to face sale.
    Be good to see more states adopt this. Of course, if you introduce a five day waiting period that would pretty much put gun shows out of business anyway.

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushyTheBeaver View Post
    Be good to see more states adopt this. Of course, if you introduce a five day waiting period that would pretty much put gun shows out of business anyway.
    =============================================

    I've only been to a couple of gun shows and they are pretty lame if you are expecting to find a deal,
    But they are not just for buying guns, they sell accessories, jerky, dog collars, ammo, knives and swords, memorbilia, etc.

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnails View Post
    =============================================

    I've only been to a couple of gun shows and they are pretty lame if you are expecting to find a deal,
    But they are not just for buying guns, they sell accessories, jerky, dog collars, ammo, knives and swords, memorbilia, etc.
    I do the fishing shows, both as a vendor and a customer. Same thing regarding deals...not many unless you go in with a specific shopping list, know just what you're looking for, and what constitutes a good price. But it's a good venue for manufacturers, lodges, etc. to show off their products. And there are demos and stuff that are sometimes informative. Plus what the hell else are you gonna do on a Saturday morning in February?

  16. #436
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    Why not armed guards at the schools. They don't have show their gun to the kids. They would be undercover. The Libs have easy answers to everything another law.

  17. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by MnJetFan View Post
    Why not armed guards at the schools. They don't have show their gun to the kids. They would be undercover. The Libs have easy answers to everything another law.
    You're drunk off yer ass, aren't you?

  18. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    Assuming the cause is just then yes I would say so.
    I wish i shared your optimism. Everyone thinks there cause is just. I have a hard time differentiating the "cause" of the south in the civil war, and the colonies in the revolutionary war.

    No, i don't think the purity of your cause has much to do with victory in warfare. It all comes down to how much power you can bring to bare (bear?).

  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    So....what would constitute a legitimate mental health reason to deny someone a firearm?
    If you trust an individual to feed, and clothe themselves. Make decisions for themselves, and live their life freely in society, you ought to also trust them to make decisions regarding their own defense.

    So essentially. Keep guns out of the mental institutions, and call it a day.

  20. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by MnJetFan View Post
    Why not armed guards at the schools. They don't have show their gun to the kids. They would be undercover. The Libs have easy answers to everything another law.
    Like 21 Jump Street? Awesome!

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