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Thread: Revisiting Gun Laws in the U.S.

  1. #101
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    Once upon a time people with mental illness were locked up in institutions to protect them and society from harm.

    In the last 25 years that has changed where mental patients are treated primarily as outpatients and left free to do whatever they feel compelled to do.

    Since those changes, there has been a dramatic increase in events like today.

    To say the killer was not a mental case would be a absurd argument, because so mentally sane person would do what he did.

    Rather than talking about gun control, maybe the discussion should be what to do with psychopaths.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    Guns will never be banned in this country. I could care less about the far-right's paranoia. Obama, who everyone keeps telling me is a communist dictator, has done NOTHING to further regulate or ban guns as President.

    Outright banning of guns and even some gun control laws are unconstitutional. 2nd amendment is what it it is. That said, I love how conservatives are more outraged about people calling for gun control then they are about 26 innocent people getting killed.
    I too am a supporter of the 2nd amendment...however, I do not own a gun. I never fired a weapon prior to my military service and haven't fired one since I left the military decades ago....it was a vow I made. Today saddens me because there are no easy answers...you will get your nut jobs from the left and right arguing their case...it goes deeper then gun laws in my opinion.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    My definition of an assault weapon is a semi-auto rifle that can be modified to become fully automatic. AK-47, AR-15, etc.

    I agree with your points, I do not think this will prevent these tragedies from happening but at this point I think we should just try it out. There is very little downside to this. People can still hunt and buy regular rifles or shotguns for home defense.
    ==============================================

    It is my understanding that full auto guns are good for laying down suppressing fire but not for accurate fire. if you want to hit what you are aiming at, you need a semi auto, lever or bolt action.

    AK's, AR's military versions are mostly select fire which means they can shoot full auto or semi auto.

    The civilian versions of the AK and AR which we can buy are semi auto only, and would require a good degree of skill and tools to convert to full auto.

    Not trying to be argumentative, just saying.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by NIGHT STALKER View Post
    I too am a supporter of the 2nd amendment...however, I do not own a gun. I never fired a weapon prior to my military service and haven't fired one since I left the military decades ago....it was a vow I made. Today saddens me because there are no easy answers...you will get your nut jobs from the left and right arguing their case...it goes deeper then gun laws in my opinion.
    No one can ever argue with the language of the 2nd amendment or the fact that founders' intent can be indicated by fact that just about every home in this country in the late 18th century had a firearm.

    That said where were all these constitutionalists when the Bush Administration and a Republican-controlled House and Senate through the 4th Amendment of the US Constitution out the window?

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetman67 View Post
    Once upon a time people with mental illness were locked up in institutions to protect them and society from harm.

    In the last 25 years that has changed where mental patients are treated primarily as outpatients and left free to do whatever they feel compelled to do.

    Since those changes, there has been a dramatic increase in events like today.

    To say the killer was not a mental case would be a absurd argument, because so mentally sane person would do what he did.

    Rather than talking about gun control, maybe the discussion should be what to do with psychopaths.
    ===========================================

    +1

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnails View Post
    ==============================================

    It is my understanding that full auto guns are good for laying down suppressing fire but not for accurate fire. if you want to hit what you are aiming at, you need a semi auto, lever or bolt action.

    AK's, AR's military versions are mostly select fire which means they can shoot full auto or semi auto.

    The civilian versions of the AK and AR which we can buy are semi auto only, and would require a good degree of skill and tools to convert to full auto.

    Not trying to be argumentative, just saying.
    Anything that can at least have selector switch placed on burst (2+ rds per trigger squeeze) is considered semi-auto.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    You cannot be serious. You want kids and teachers carrying rubber bullets and mace?

    The whole fake cowboy argument of the right that guns should be made more available as a preventive measure is asinine. I've seen highly trained and experienced members of the military have all kinds of accidents/negligent discharge etc. So some teacher with no military or law enforcement background, a 10 safety course and maybe 1 trip to an indoor range should be packing heat?


    I am opposed to gun control and believe in the Constitutionally mandated right to bear arms but making guns more available than they already as some sort of safety measure is stupid is as stupid does.
    First I never said arm the kids or mace or rubber bullets.

    But I unfortunately do say we may have to arm some teachers or get guards.
    Not the apparent do nothing you seem just advocated of course if the polls change then the left and you may get on board.

    Yes some of the right do feel you can not guarantee a no weapon zone for the nut jobs of the country. The crazies always attack weakness what don't you understand about that?


    I am for gun control and do not own a gun. .

    The development of non lethal weapons is possible.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    Anything that can at least have selector switch placed on burst (2+ rds per trigger squeeze) is considered semi-auto.
    ============================================

    Correct, and any gun that is capable of firing full auto is illegal regardless if it can be fired in semi auto mode also.

    You can own a full auto/machine gun in most states if you go through a bunch of federal checks, hoops and pony up the dollars.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by cedk View Post
    First I never said arm the kids or mace or rubber bullets.
    You said non-lethal weapons. So did you mean kids and teachers should be packing billy clubs and brass knuckles? And how would that stop a psycho with a gun?

    Quote Originally Posted by cedk View Post
    But I unfortunately do say we may have to arm some teachers or get guards..
    Oh hells no.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnails View Post
    ============================================

    Correct, and any gun that is capable of firing full auto is illegal regardless if it can be fired in semi auto mode also.

    You can own a full auto/machine gun in most states if you go through a bunch of federal checks, hoops and pony up the dollars.
    No one is using full auto to commit a crime. Now some of these kids growing up today playing these retarded first person shooter games and living on facebook and twitter are so stupid they might actually try it but then they'd probably screw it up.

  11. #111
    [QUOTE=detjetsfan;4725479]No one can ever argue with the language of the 2nd amendment or the fact that founders' intent can be indicated by fact that just about every home in this country in the late 18th century had a firearm.

    [QUOTE]

    They deny the 2nd amendment all the time all day and with ease are you clueless to that fact.



    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    You said non-lethal weapons. So did you mean kids and teachers should be packing billy clubs and brass knuckles? And how would that stop a psycho with a gun?
    You make dumber statements each time you are arming the kids.Nothing I said.I give up on your reading comprehension
    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    [

    Oh hells no.
    Yes, do nothing and leave the kids to rot. worthless
    Last edited by cedk; 12-14-2012 at 08:21 PM. Reason: s

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    You cannot be serious. You want kids and teachers carrying rubber bullets and mace?
    Good God, no.

    .45 calibers with Hydra-shock +P hollowpoints.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCBNY View Post
    Time for stricter regulation.
    Once again, before the bodies are even cold.

    What a predictable ploy.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    No one is using full auto to commit a crime. Now some of these kids growing up today playing these retarded first person shooter games and living on facebook and twitter are so stupid they might actually try it but then they'd probably screw it up.
    ================================================

    I guess my whole point is that fully auto guns would not be the weapon of choice for someone on a killing spree. Unless they were just trying to cause panic. And that fully auto weapons are not problem/issue in these mass shootings nor as a whole in the US.

    That's all I was trying say.

  15. #115
    This conversation happens every 6 months in the USA - nothing changes regardless until the next tragedy.

    Thoughts with family and friends, what an inconcievable situation they are in.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by jetman67 View Post
    Once upon a time people with mental illness were locked up in institutions to protect them and society from harm.

    In the last 25 years that has changed where mental patients are treated primarily as outpatients and left free to do whatever they feel compelled to do.

    Since those changes, there has been a dramatic increase in events like today.

    To say the killer was not a mental case would be a absurd argument, because so mentally sane person would do what he did.

    Rather than talking about gun control, maybe the discussion should be what to do with psychopaths.
    Yet in other countries where the same changes have taken place in regards to those with "mental illness", the number of these types of events is miniscule compared to the USA.

    Your solution is to wind the clock back and lock up all the crazies? What about all the issues to do with these instititions that led to them being disbanded in the first place?

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by freestater View Post
    Once again, before the bodies are even cold.

    What a predictable ploy.
    Actually, this is the perfect time to talk about it. This country suffers from ridiculous short term memory loss. In a week it's Christmas and then new years and all of a sudden it's gone from the national conversation and we're talking about Anne Hathaway flashing her crotch again.

    And at this rate, we're never going to have "cold bodies"

    You have to go all the way back to Tuesday to find the last mass shooting in this country.

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/12/justic...ing/index.html

    Yes, ultimately the individual is responsible for the acts. The guns didn't shoot themselves. Yes, this waste of life and coward was a psychopath. Maybe he would have committed violence some other way. But I don't understand why treating mental illness and reforming gun laws are conversations that are mutually exclusive. We can talk about both.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by freestater View Post
    Once again, before the bodies are even cold.

    What a predictable ploy.
    Pot meet kettle. While the reports of the shooting were still just filtering in the Hampur thread on the shooting were visited by several members of the don't take away our toys posse who had to be reminded repeatedly to take the politics elsewhere.

  19. #119
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    Heard a radio interview tonight with an expert on gun violence/mass killings tonight. A few points he made worthy of note:

    - Contrary to popular belief, most mass killers don't "just snap one day." For almost all of them, there is a long process taking months that build toward the final act. The Columbine killers took 13 months to prepare.

    - Again, contrary to popular belief, mass killing are not on the rise in the US. The number of victims of these killing sprees has remained fairly constant of the past few decades, roughly 100 to 150 victims per year.

    - The numbers of victims of mass homicide by gun annually (100-150) pales in comparison to the average number of individual gun homicides (15,000).

  20. #120
    wtf are you hammerheads talking about regarding "auto" weapons?

    you know what...there is a HUGE misconception about this subject. heres the deal:

    when you hear the term "automatic" or "assault rifles" , 99.999999% of these weapons are SEMI-automatics meaning you pull the trigger once per bullet. They are not "machine guns"

    "fully automatic" is the correct term for what you see on TV where you hold the trigger down and the weapon keeps firing until its out. THESE weapons, are VERY rare. There are only a HANDFUL of states that allow these and it involves TONS of paperwork and fees and background checks.

    so please get it right. in 99.99999999999% of the cases, "automatic" pistols and "assault rifles" ARE SEMI AUTOMATIC

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