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Thread: This is the most talented Jets team in 30 years...

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    Please explain how the Pats, Steelers, and Ravens have "more talent" and where?

    The Pata without Brady has average talent, sure they have a couple of studs in Gronk, Hernandez, Wilfork, etc, but where are they more talented elsewhere? Same with the Steelers? The Steelers lost several key players to retirement, they are also old in many places, much like the Ravens? This Jets team has a lot of talent, some of it unproven, or still developing, but this same team is off of two AFCCG's in the last 3 years, if not for an implosion last year, a dysfunctional locker room due to an offensive coaching staff that lost the team, this Jets team are back in the playoffs.

    The jets certainly added talent this year in FA, via trade, and through the draft, the talent is there and certainly on par with any of those other teams.
    Between our QB and skill players, we are weak on offense compared to the teams I listed. Our RB corps is average to below average. We have a guy in Greene that scouts around the league seem to think is just another guy and his performance through 3 years reflects that. Behind him at RB, we are unproven and possibly very bad. Our WR corps is below average, that cannot even be questioned. Holmes would not be a #1 on many teams around the league. Behind him, we are completely unproven and possibly very bad, just like our RB situation. Schillens coming off injury, never been very productive. Hill a rookie 2nd round pick with limited college production. Kerley a slot WR and 2nd year player. Keller is an average TE, behind him nothing but question marks. There isn't anyone in the league who would take the Jets combo of QB and skill players over their counterparts on the Pats, Steelers, Ravens, and Texans. Our o-line is probably an advantage over Steelers and Texans, but Pats and Ravens are right there with us.

    On D, the Ravens, Texans, and Steelers have every reason to believe their D will be as good as ours was, if not better. The Ravens and Texans unquestionably had better Ds than us last year. Steelers were comparable to us. We've added rookies and a couple of safeties with question marks. So we're automatically way better? I know you want to use the rookies to argue, but if we get to assume all our rookies will be studs, then the Pats, Steelers, Texans, and Ravens get to assume all their rookies are studs too when we compare the teams. I think if I were a Texans and Ravens fan, I would expect to have a better D than the Jets this season. Steelers fans given their history and strong performances on D throughout the years probably could reasonably expect that too. The Pats D is definitely worse than ours, but they have a few good players and went way heavy on D in their draft. They made the SB and went 13-3 with the 32nd ranked D last year, let's say their D improves to 20th or so (not unreasonable), should they expect to do worse as a team if that happens?

    You're just incapable of looking at this team through anything but the thickest of green lenses. Sorry to say....

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by First DOWN! View Post
    Most talented team in the past 30 years? COme on man. We added Landry, Bell, and some unproven rookies to a very flawed team. I don't know if the OP was a serious post or was a troll bait.

    If serious, reality's gonna hit you like
    He's trolling heavy. The team with Favre was the most talented. Sure it was a fail but we're talking talent here. I'd say our team 2 years ago was up there as well and that 98 team with Curtis, Key, Aaron Glenn, etc.... That team was loaded as well. Just 2 years ago our receivers were Braylon, Holmes, & Cotch. We may have a better defense on PAPER but offensively this is the worst we've looked since Penny was battling for a starting job.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    Between our QB and skill players, we are weak on offense compared to the teams I listed. Our RB corps is average to below average. We have a guy in Greene that scouts around the league seem to think is just another guy and his performance through 3 years reflects that. Behind him at RB, we are unproven and possibly very bad. Our WR corps is below average, that cannot even be questioned. Holmes would not be a #1 on many teams around the league. Behind him, we are completely unproven and possibly very bad, just like our RB situation. Schillens coming off injury, never been very productive. Hill a rookie 2nd round pick with limited college production. Kerley a slot WR and 2nd year player. Keller is an average TE, behind him nothing but question marks. There isn't anyone in the league who would take the Jets combo of QB and skill players over their counterparts on the Pats, Steelers, Ravens, and Texans. Our o-line is probably an advantage over Steelers and Texans, but Pats and Ravens are right there with us.

    On D, the Ravens, Texans, and Steelers have every reason to believe their D will be as good as ours was, if not better. The Ravens and Texans unquestionably had better Ds than us last year. Steelers were comparable to us. We've added rookies and a couple of safeties with question marks. So we're automatically way better? I know you want to use the rookies to argue, but if we get to assume all our rookies will be studs, then the Pats, Steelers, Texans, and Ravens get to assume all their rookies are studs too when we compare the teams. I think if I were a Texans and Ravens fan, I would expect to have a better D than the Jets this season. Steelers fans given their history and strong performances on D throughout the years probably could reasonably expect that too. The Pats D is definitely worse than ours, but they have a few good players and went way heavy on D in their draft. They made the SB and went 13-3 with the 32nd ranked D last year, let's say their D improves to 20th or so (not unreasonable), should they expect to do worse as a team if that happens?

    You're just incapable of looking at this team through anything but the thickest of green lenses. Sorry to say....
    couldnt have said it any better

  4. #164
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    Jets definitely have the best, funnest, most passionate HC in 30 years.

    Sure, Tuna and his dream team staff did a hit & run but none of them stayed the course.

    Rex is our Bill Cowher/Jeff Fisher - here for the long haul.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    Between our QB and skill players, we are weak on offense compared to the teams I listed. Our RB corps is average to below average. We have a guy in Greene that scouts around the league seem to think is just another guy and his performance through 3 years reflects that.
    First, understand that the Jets are still developing investments made at the QB and RB position in the draft, in Sanchez the #5 overall pick. Obviously, this puts the Jets behind when comparing to a team like the Pats and Steelers, no duh. But Sanchez can still be easily evaluated as a player with promise and potential to still be a franchise QB, he's on the right path, no matter how you want to break down last year's stats, and this is a big year for him.

    Labeling our RB's average to below average just isn't fair. They have 4 players they've drafted, a player in Greene who despite your comments, still hasn't played a full season as a starter, so his stats the last 3 years should factor in the fact he hasn't been the featured or premeir player, and really, I want a rotation at the position, unless you have a horse, you want your RB's fresh by the end of the year. I think the Jets have madea commitment to this approach since Curtis Martin retired.

    That said, Greene DOES have talent, how can anybody question his stats from last year? On 250 carries, still not a full-time role, he had over a 4.2 ypc, and put up 1,000 yds. Greene's weaknesses have always been his receiving ability and pass protection. If he works on that and develops that this year, he can be a full time player, and based on comments from his RB coach this training camp, it seems the team believes he's ready to make the next step. Greene's peak as a player is still unknown, the talent is there.

    Behind him at RB, we are unproven and possibly very bad.
    Behind Greene, we have a player in McKnight who is already a top KR, has abilitya s a receiver, and when given opportunities, especially last year, has shown promise to do the job. How is this "very bad?" Powell is a complete unknown, not "very bad," but an "unknown," but he is sure turning heads so far this camp. Then we have Ganaway, another player who put up big numbers at a good program. We are inexperienced, yes, but we have talent, and we are not at all "very bad" or "below average."

    Our WR corps is below average, that cannot even be questioned.
    Say's who? Why can't it be questioned? From an experience standpoint, sure, the team got much younger this year, they are inexperienced, but saying they have "below average talent," pure hogwash. There is a lot of "raw" talent, I agree, but not below average.

    Holmes would not be a #1 on many teams around the league.
    Why not? He has the ability to put up big numbers, I'm very interested to see how Holmes performs under Sparano in his offense, I have a feeling Holmes was stunted by Schottenheimer last year, it obviously wasn't a good fit, and Schotty lost the team, not just Holmes. Holmes appears to be rejuvenated, ecstatic even, about the changes on offense this year and especially Sparano, it's promising, but he has talent, he has top 20 talent.

    Behind him, we are completely unproven and possibly very bad, just like our RB situation. Schillens coming off injury, never been very productive. Hill a rookie 2nd round pick with limited college production. Kerley a slot WR and 2nd year player. Keller is an average TE, behind him nothing but question marks. There isn't anyone in the league who would take the Jets combo of QB and skill players over their counterparts on the Pats, Steelers, Ravens, and Texans. Our o-line is probably an advantage over Steelers and Texans, but Pats and Ravens are right there with us.
    Behind Holmes, yes, we are unproven. But again, "very bad" doesn't even come close to applying here. Hill has very high upside, he's raw, but certainly not devoid of talent. He'll probably need a year to develop to really have a strong impact, but I think he will contribute this year, a 600-700 yd season with 7 Td's isn't unreasonable. A player like Schilens has a lot of talent, his issue has always been injuries and staying healthy and on the field. You don't find many 6'4 players with his size and speed. Had he stayed healthy, he is probably still in Oakland, they had high hopes for him. He started to come on at the end of last year. A rotation of Hill and Schilens and Hill with Holmes has a lot of potential, but yes, agreed, there is an unkown factor.

    Kerley has very solid talent, a lot of good ability in the slot, he showed he can be very effective in this role, and showed some of his versatility when asked to run the wildcat formations last year.

    Patrick Turner is a big target, a promising young player who was Sanchez' target at USC. A former 3rd round pick. He has talent, size, and he started to emerge last year. He's been solid in camp, and we know he's already a very good ST's player.

    The kid White we drafted caught 120 balls last year, insane numbers, another candidate in a #3 or #4 role and in the slot.

    The Jets have talent at these positions, it's a matter of experience and development.

    There isn't a team in the AFC that outshines the Jets WR unit, even the overhyped Pats. The Pats have average and aging WR's, but on a team with Brady, they are that much better. The same would hold true if team's swapped players at the position. I would think players like Holmes, Hill, and Kerley would do rather nicely with Brady spinning the ball. Lloyd IMO is overrated, he had one solid season, but otherwise has been a bust. He's now what, 31/32? Welker is a head shot away from being Chrebet'd. There is a reason why the Pats didn't give him an extension, they were actually smart not doing so. Welker is now over 30 as well, for a player his size in the NFL, they just don't last. Miami? Umm no. Buffalo? They have a nice player in Johnson, but what else?

    On D, the Ravens, Texans, and Steelers have every reason to believe their D will be as good as ours was, if not better. The Ravens and Texans unquestionably had better Ds than us last year. Steelers were comparable to us. We've added rookies and a couple of safeties with question marks. So we're automatically way better? I know you want to use the rookies to argue, but if we get to assume all our rookies will be studs, then the Pats, Steelers, Texans, and Ravens get to assume all their rookies are studs too when we compare the teams. I think if I were a Texans and Ravens fan, I would expect to have a better D than the Jets this season. Steelers fans given their history and strong performances on D throughout the years probably could reasonably expect that too. The Pats D is definitely worse than ours, but they have a few good players and went way heavy on D in their draft. They made the SB and went 13-3 with the 32nd ranked D last year, let's say their D improves to 20th or so (not unreasonable), should they expect to do worse as a team if that happens?

    You're just incapable of looking at this team through anything but the thickest of green lenses. Sorry to say....


    Seems you're more than incapable of looking at the talent on the team you supposedly root for.

    You mention last year, we aren't talking about last year, this thread highlights the potential of THIS year's team. The Jets are loaded with talent on D, some unproven because they are young players, players drafted, or players who once had a lot of potential and the Jets are trying to find out if they can reclaim that potential. There is no denying the Jets talent on D. The Pats? Hell no. Ravens? They are getting very old, and fast. Reed almost didn't come back this year. Lewis is 37? Suggs will be out for most of the year, the Ravens have some talent up front, still a solid group, but "far better than the Jets?" Hell no. Again, the statement I'm defending is that these other teams are "far more talented" than the Jets, it's crap.

    The Steelers? As I said, they lost several key veterans to retirement/injury, and are old with their remaining key players. LaBeau will always field a strong unit, but it is in no way unreasonable to suggest the Jets are at least on par with their talent, which is what I was defending.
    Last edited by Ray Ray19; 08-01-2012 at 04:12 PM.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt39 View Post
    couldnt have said it any better
    Yeah I mean, not to be negative, but if this is the most talent the Jets have had in 30 years, that's kind of a sad indication of the type of franchise we've been considering there are a number of teams throughout the league with better rosters.

    It's just not true. For one, we were definitely better in 2010, and that's just in Rex's time here.

    Good thing about the NFL is you just never know. Giants fans were not thinking SB before last season. But before the homers go crazy with that one, remember that Eli threw for around 5,000 yards last season and they had 2 of the top 12 WRs in football in what is clearly a passing-oriented league

  7. #167
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    Ray Ray taking it to a whole new level, must feel euphoric

  8. #168
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    Brady will throw for 25 TD's max this year, and at least 15 picks. Then we'll see where the scrubs really are.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    This thread is over the top.
    Yes, this thread was begging for ridicule...imagine if the OP is right and we're about to go on a run of Lombardi's...Maybe he's Jetstrodamus

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYJ37/12 View Post
    The bad defense did not get the Pats to the SB, Brady got the Pats to the SB. There's nothing wrong with that, just stop thinking the Pats are loaded with talent that everyone wants. Two guys off your team that everyone wants, Brady then Gronk, thats it.
    Couldn't have said it better myself

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    None of the running backs or receivers are even close to top-tier players, Sanchez has a lot to prove, and the offensive line has a few holes.

    Defense is loaded though.
    Holmes isn't a top tier player? LMAO

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greensleeves View Post
    Holmes isn't a top tier player? LMAO
    If Santonio Holmes is top tier, does that mean the top 20-30 WRs in the league are top tier?

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greensleeves View Post
    Holmes isn't a top tier player? LMAO
    Serious question. How do you define top tier?

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    Yeah I mean, not to be negative, but if this is the most talent the Jets have had in 30 years, that's kind of a sad indication of the type of franchise we've been considering there are a number of teams throughout the league with better rosters.

    It's just not true. For one, we were definitely better in 2010, and that's just in Rex's time here.

    Good thing about the NFL is you just never know. Giants fans were not thinking SB before last season. But before the homers go crazy with that one, remember that Eli threw for around 5,000 yards last season and they had 2 of the top 12 WRs in football in what is clearly a passing-oriented league
    Most talented defense I'd buy. Most talented team overall? Not a chance in hell...

    the offense from the outside looking in(basically anyone who isnt a total homer) looks like a mess. And the returning players arent that talented to begin with. Keller- average, Greene- below average, Holmes- above average but a malcontent....and of course, Sanchez- below average so far.

  15. #175
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    [QUOTE=eaglenj;4530605]
    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post

    Like I said, in no way am I not giving Brady his due.

    But are you honestly saying Revis has never won a game for us when he holds Pro Bowl WRs to 2 catches? Or how about Mangold, when he keeps an unbelievable player like your own wilfork in check all game.

    I throw the question right back to you. What games has aaron hernandez or jarod mayo ever won for the pats?

    Also, there isnt a single player on your entire defense, aside from wilfork, that the pats wouldnt deal straight up for wilkerson in a heartbeat.

    Yea Gronk, welker and brady are great playmakers and wilfork is a great lineman. But mangold is a great lineman and revis is a great playmaker.
    I agree with most of your post, but:

    "Also, there isnt a single player on your entire defense, aside from wilfork, that the pats wouldnt deal straight up for wilkerson in a heartbeat."

    is pretty questionable. If the Patriots wanted Wilkerson they could have had him, but passed on him not once, but twice before the Jets drafted him. I'm not saying he is not a good, but he is no where near elite at the moment. He is a good, young player and looks like he is poised to take strides forward.

    As to the OP..... No. Just no.

  16. #176
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    I admit I was pessimistic this offseason, but after spending Saturday-Monday in Cortland, my optimism has increased. I've gone from thinking this is a 8-9 win football team to a 10-11 win football team. Time will tell, but the team right now is certainly being overlooked and undervalued in my and many others' opinions. Then again, this is practice. We'll see what happens on the field.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by EternalChampion View Post
    Brady will throw for 25 TD's max this year, and at least 15 picks. Then we'll see where the scrubs really are.
    +1. Brady is a lot like Kerry Collins during his Raiders years, except with less talent around him. Expect 20 TD's max and 20 INT's and a 4-12 record this year.

  18. #178
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    Well Jets had an off season last year. Hopefully they will bring it in 2012. Every coach has an off season every once in awhile.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    Between our QB and skill players, we are weak on offense compared to the teams I listed. Our RB corps is average to below average. We have a guy in Greene that scouts around the league seem to think is just another guy and his performance through 3 years reflects that. Behind him at RB, we are unproven and possibly very bad. Our WR corps is below average, that cannot even be questioned. Holmes would not be a #1 on many teams around the league. Behind him, we are completely unproven and possibly very bad, just like our RB situation. Schillens coming off injury, never been very productive. Hill a rookie 2nd round pick with limited college production. Kerley a slot WR and 2nd year player. Keller is an average TE, behind him nothing but question marks. There isn't anyone in the league who would take the Jets combo of QB and skill players over their counterparts on the Pats, Steelers, Ravens, and Texans. Our o-line is probably an advantage over Steelers and Texans, but Pats and Ravens are right there with us.

    On D, the Ravens, Texans, and Steelers have every reason to believe their D will be as good as ours was, if not better. The Ravens and Texans unquestionably had better Ds than us last year. Steelers were comparable to us. We've added rookies and a couple of safeties with question marks. So we're automatically way better? I know you want to use the rookies to argue, but if we get to assume all our rookies will be studs, then the Pats, Steelers, Texans, and Ravens get to assume all their rookies are studs too when we compare the teams. I think if I were a Texans and Ravens fan, I would expect to have a better D than the Jets this season. Steelers fans given their history and strong performances on D throughout the years probably could reasonably expect that too. The Pats D is definitely worse than ours, but they have a few good players and went way heavy on D in their draft. They made the SB and went 13-3 with the 32nd ranked D last year, let's say their D improves to 20th or so (not unreasonable), should they expect to do worse as a team if that happens?

    You're just incapable of looking at this team through anything but the thickest of green lenses. Sorry to say....
    You may think this is keepin' it real, but it's a totally pessimistic and NOT realistic view. Ravens D is one year older and without their best player. How on earth does that make them better? Pittsburgh has all kinds of question marks with their D this year and the Texans may be better than our D if our young guys don't pan out, or maybe even if they do.

    If our QB cuts down on his mistakes and still makes the same amount of plays our O is much better than last year. Why doesn't anyone think one of the receivers will be productive aside from Holmes? Hill could be an amazing player and Schillens is very productive when he is on the field. Keller should be better as well.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Serious question. How do you define top tier?
    Top Tier Receiver: Great hands, speed, clutch, strong route runner, strong will to win

    How many catches would Holmes have if he played with a pass happy O? Too much analysis leaves out the QB when judging receivers. The ability to up their game when it matters most in the 4th quarter in playoff games.

    What a top tier receiver is not: someone who is rated by a bunch of analysts in a magazine

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