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Thread: he Official Green-White scrimmage thread

  1. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choon328 View Post
    Ummm, smart guy, over the past two seasons in Tebows 14 starts he has a sub 50% completion percentage and his rating is 75.9. Do you just totally ignore Tebows stats b/c you believe he is better then what he is? I know you said over the past 3 years but lets take Sanchez' statistics each for each year he has played. Sanchez has never had a sub 50% completion percentage in any year. And the only year he had a lower QB rating then what Tebow has averaged over his 14 starts is his rookie season. Other then that his second year was 75.2 and last year was 78.2 compared to Tebows 72.9.

    I think it's a joke that you are trying to make the case that Tebow is great but then try to compare him to a QB who has been average at best in the NFL to make your point about Tebow being great. It makes no sense.
    Nobody is saying Tebow is great. I'm saying Sanchez is not. In fact I'm saying he's among the worst in the league. Therefore he should not be on the field no matter what. My other point is that if Tebow can get the job done in Denver where he was thrown on the field in the middle of the season turning a 1-4 team around in an offense that he had no business playing in, then how is it possible that he can not get the job done here in a way better situation, on a way better team? How does that even make sense? I still haven't gotten a response to this. Actually I don't get any responses from the Sanchez fanboys trying to correct me. Like the other guys that thought it was retarded that I said over the last 3 years they wont be able to find a starting QB with worse stats than Sanchez. Meanwhile turns out I was right.

    And just because I think Tebow deserves a chance to lead this team if Sanchez doesnt get the job done, doesnt mean I hate Sanchez or I love Tebow. If Tebow cant get the job done he should be benched as well. I want whoever helps this team get the job done. Whether its Sanchez, Tebow, McElroy, I dont care. Sanchez will get the first crack at it, if he messes up he needs to be benched ASAP. Then its Tebows time, if he gets the job done he should be the starter next year as well. Either that or get a new franchise QB. Because Mark wont do it if he cant get it done this year.
    Last edited by DaBallhawk; 08-05-2012 at 07:36 AM.

  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    Thats what these Sanchez Fanboys dont get, I'm not arguing whether Tebow is a great passer. My point is, if Tebow is so incredibly bad that he should the 5th QB on our depth chart, or even a FB like some of the Sanchez Fanboys suggest, how come a QB with a worse career QB rating (Sanchez) who is arguably the worst starting QB in the league over the last 3 years, is considered so good that he should be starting no matter what? And if its not about stats with Sanchez, why is it about stats with Tebow? Yes his completion % is bad, but he gets the job done. He got it done with a bad team last season, what makes people think he cant do it with a very good team? For the record: Sanchez is a better thrower than Tebow. That doesnt mean he's a better QB, it doesn't mean he gives us the best chance to win. Orton was a way better thrower than Tebow, yet the Broncos went 1-4 with him at QB. Tebow came in and they went like 7-1 the next 8 games. So lets forget about who has better mechanics, that doesnt guarantee you anything if the guy is missing the rest.
    If we go by how Tebow and Sanchez are as players now, which is what should determine who should be the QB of this team, IMO there is no comparison. You keep saying Sanchez is the worst QB in the league yet last year he had a better completion %, more yards per game, more td's per game, and a significantly better rating then Tebow had last year. If he is the worst then where is Tebow ranked?

    And your right, Tebow went 7-1 over his next 8 games, but how convenient that you left out that he lost his last 3 games of the season, just like Sanchez did.

    Tebows final 3 games of the regular season:

    41% comp
    146 yds/game
    1 td 4 int

    Marks final 3 games

    56 % comp
    205 yds/game
    5 tds 7 int

    Wow, Tebow is soooooooo much better and soooooooo much more clutch then Sanchez.

  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    Oh, that's easy. Just pull something out of your ass and and then try to make it look like a fact.

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    Nobody is saying Tebow is great. I'm saying Sanchez is not. In fact I'm saying he's among the worst in the league. Therefore he should not be on the field no matter what. My other point is that if Tebow can get the job done in Denver where he was thrown on the field in the middle of the season turning a 1-4 team around in an offense that he had no business playing in, then how is it possible that he can not get the job done here in a way better situation, on a way better team? How does that even make sense? I still haven't gotten a response to this. Actually I don't get any responses from the Sanchez fanboys trying to correct me. Like the other guys that thought it was retarded that I said over the last 3 years they wont be able to find a starting QB with worse stats than Sanchez. Meanwhile turns out I was right.

    And just because I think Tebow deserves a chance to lead this team if Sanchez doesnt get the job done, doesnt mean I hate Sanchez or I love Tebow. If Tebow cant get the job done he should be benched as well. I want whoever helps this team get the job done. Whether its Sanchez, Tebow, McElroy, I dont care. Sanchez will get the first crack at it, if he messes up he needs to be benched ASAP. Then its Tebows time, if he gets the job done he should be the starter next year as well. Either that or get a new franchise QB. Because Mark wont do it if he cant get it done this year.
    You do realize that last year the Broncos changed their entire offense so that Tebow wouldn't have to throw the ball much at all. If he was even a starting quality NFL QB why would you change your offense into a run 80% of the time offense? I wouldn't call that having a successful season as a QB, maybe as a player, but not as a QB. And statistically Sanchez was much better. If you leave Tebow in a pro style offense where you have to depend on his arm he is below average for a back up QB. That's the problem. The Jets will not tailor the offense around him like the Broncos did. The Broncos attempted to hide his sh*tty arm by running 80% of the time. It got to the point where they were running on 3rd and longer then 5 yards. The odds of making that are not good and that's why Tebow led the league in 3 and outs.

  5. #325
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    Read my last paragraph again. And it goes without saying that Tebow's stats were the worst in terms of completion % last season. I was responding to people that said Tebow was the worst QB in the league. So if Sanchez is the worst or 2nd worst QB in the league, how come they view him like some sort of Legend who should be allowed to play no matter what? Thats not right. Tebow is not that bad that he cant come in and win games for us. And if Sanchez cant do that Tebow should be on the field instead. Thats it.

    Also Tebow has some solid excuses for his stats last season. He wasnt allowed to do anything the first 3 quarters. He was thrown into the fire in the middle of the season. He played in an offense that he had no business playing in, his receivers sucked and the defense was among the worst as well. Plus he also had close to 700 rushing yards, another thing people try to ignore. Whether he throws a 10yd pass or runs for 10yds doesnt matter, its still a 1st down. Sanchez didnt have any of that. Clear cut starter from day one for 3 straight years, its his offense, he has a great defense and a good offense. He did have ****tenheimer but Tebow had Fox as well, so theyre square there.

    Now, all that doesnt excuse some of the terrible ducks he throws every once in a while. His mechanics are bad, and if he couldnt win games, if he had a 3 TD to 24 INT ratio I would never want to see him on the field. But the fact is that his passing numbers are decent enough to give him a shot, and he wins games, all that paired with his ability to run, his ability to open up the entire running game (for all the backs) etc. things that Sanchez doesnt bring. And with a great defense and a good running game, why would it be stupid to let Tebow lead this team if Sanchez fails? If you want Sanchez out there no matter what then you are not a Jets fan. That would be like me saying I want Tebow out there no matter what. Thats retarded. If you struggle you have to be benched.

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choon328 View Post
    You do realize that last year the Broncos changed their entire offense so that Tebow wouldn't have to throw the ball much at all. If he was even a starting quality NFL QB why would you change your offense into a run 80% of the time offense? I wouldn't call that having a successful season as a QB, maybe as a player, but not as a QB. And statistically Sanchez was much better. If you leave Tebow in a pro style offense where you have to depend on his arm he is below average for a back up QB. That's the problem. The Jets will not tailor the offense around him like the Broncos did. The Broncos attempted to hide his sh*tty arm by running 80% of the time. It got to the point where they were running on 3rd and longer then 5 yards. The odds of making that are not good and that's why Tebow led the league in 3 and outs.
    The Broncos did change their offense after a few games, they tweaked it a little bit. Its not like they changed a lot or turned it into a wildcat offense. But thats when Tebow started to shine, the Broncos won 6 straight games and Tebow threw only 1 pick in 7 games. Late in the season for whatever reason he made a lot more mistakes, fumbling and throwing a couple INTs (3 vs Buffalo). But he still finished with 12 TD and only 7 picks. 0 picks in the playoffs, 3 total TDs vs the Steelers. But thats his inconsistency. But with a great defense and a good running game it won't cost us games, not more than a couple at best. Thats just my take on it.

    And again, im not saying he should be the #1 from day one. Sanchez is the starter, I hope he gets the job done. But if we start the season 2-3 or 3-4 or something like that they better get his ass off the field. Something needs to change at that point. We've been through that stuff way too long. Sanchez is 26-20 as a starter, thats not acceptable if you look at how good this team is and has been the last 3 years. I dont think Tebow would have been any worse as a starter. In fact he was 8-6 with the Broncos.

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    Read my last paragraph again. And it goes without saying that Tebow's stats were the worst in terms of completion % last season. I was responding to people that said Tebow was the worst QB in the league. So if Sanchez is the worst or 2nd worst QB in the league, how come they view him like some sort of Legend who should be allowed to play no matter what? Thats not right. Tebow is not that bad that he cant come in and win games for us. And if Sanchez cant do that Tebow should be on the field instead. Thats it.

    Also Tebow has some solid excuses for his stats last season. He wasnt allowed to do anything the first 3 quarters. He was thrown into the fire in the middle of the season. He played in an offense that he had no business playing in, his receivers sucked and the defense was among the worst as well. Plus he also had close to 700 rushing yards, another thing people try to ignore. Whether he throws a 10yd pass or runs for 10yds doesnt matter, its still a 1st down. Sanchez didnt have any of that. Clear cut starter from day one for 3 straight years, its his offense, he has a great defense and a good offense. He did have ****tenheimer but Tebow had Fox as well, so theyre square there.

    Now, all that doesnt excuse some of the terrible ducks he throws every once in a while. His mechanics are bad, and if he couldnt win games, if he had a 3 TD to 24 INT ratio I would never want to see him on the field. But the fact is that his passing numbers are decent enough to give him a shot, and he wins games, all that paired with his ability to run, his ability to open up the entire running game (for all the backs) etc. things that Sanchez doesnt bring. And with a great defense and a good running game, why would it be stupid to let Tebow lead this team if Sanchez fails? If you want Sanchez out there no matter what then you are not a Jets fan. That would be like me saying I want Tebow out there no matter what. Thats retarded. If you struggle you have to be benched.
    Well I guess you are happy now, you finally had some people take your bait. Must have a been another sleepless night for you thinking about how poor Tebow played last night, we could tell it was killing you, you were trying so hard to pick a fight last.

  8. #328
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    I like Tebow. Maybe not as a QB, but as a football player and a general good guy. I plan on rooting for him when he's on the field.

    You're making me not like him. You should back off.

  9. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gastineau99 View Post
    It's live football, moron.
    Wow!

    I still don't think you wreck your number one receiver.

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    Read my last paragraph again. And it goes without saying that Tebow's stats were the worst in terms of completion % last season. I was responding to people that said Tebow was the worst QB in the league. So if Sanchez is the worst or 2nd worst QB in the league, how come they view him like some sort of Legend who should be allowed to play no matter what? Thats not right. Tebow is not that bad that he cant come in and win games for us. And if Sanchez cant do that Tebow should be on the field instead. Thats it.

    Also Tebow has some solid excuses for his stats last season. He wasnt allowed to do anything the first 3 quarters. He was thrown into the fire in the middle of the season. He played in an offense that he had no business playing in, his receivers sucked and the defense was among the worst as well. Plus he also had close to 700 rushing yards, another thing people try to ignore. Whether he throws a 10yd pass or runs for 10yds doesnt matter, its still a 1st down. Sanchez didnt have any of that. Clear cut starter from day one for 3 straight years, its his offense, he has a great defense and a good offense. He did have ****tenheimer but Tebow had Fox as well, so theyre square there.

    Now, all that doesnt excuse some of the terrible ducks he throws every once in a while. His mechanics are bad, and if he couldnt win games, if he had a 3 TD to 24 INT ratio I would never want to see him on the field. But the fact is that his passing numbers are decent enough to give him a shot, and he wins games, all that paired with his ability to run, his ability to open up the entire running game (for all the backs) etc. things that Sanchez doesnt bring. And with a great defense and a good running game, why would it be stupid to let Tebow lead this team if Sanchez fails? If you want Sanchez out there no matter what then you are not a Jets fan. That would be like me saying I want Tebow out there no matter what. Thats retarded. If you struggle you have to be benched.
    First of all this worst QB in the league stuff is ridiculous, and your attempts at sounding objective after that are lost. At worst Sanchez 23rd as Jaws has him. At best he's from 16-23. The team fell apart the last 3 games, and the OC is gone. Now the team is learning a new offense. If they struggle you leave him in there for at least a few games to see improvement, depending on why he's struggling. If the line can't block then I guess it would make sense to put Tebow in, and run the wishbone. If he's just trying to get teh reads, and timing down with the receivers then you leave him in. If it's because he's inaccurate, then what sense would it make to put the most inaccurate QB in history in the game? If we put in Tebow he's guaranteed to struggle. Every game he's been in has been a struggle. I'd rather see what McElroy, or Simms can do.

  11. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfine350z View Post
    Not impressed. Seasons already over to be honest....by the way did you get any pics of Tebow blowing his nose or eating dinner? Im dying to know his diet...
    Now thats what I like to see, a positive attitude...well done!

  12. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Well I guess you are happy now, you finally had some people take your bait. Must have a been another sleepless night for you thinking about how poor Tebow played last night, we could tell it was killing you, you were trying so hard to pick a fight last.
    Poor play? He had 3 pass attempts I believe and a few good rushes. One bomb went right through the receivers hands. Something Sanchez is not able to do. But paint the picture the way you want it if it makes you feel better.

  13. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post

    Also Tebow has some solid excuses for his stats last season. He wasnt allowed to do anything the first 3 quarters. He was thrown into the fire in the middle of the season. He played in an offense that he had no business playing in, his receivers sucked and the defense was among the worst as well. Plus he also had close to 700 rushing yards, another thing people try to ignore. Whether he throws a 10yd pass or runs for 10yds doesnt matter, its still a 1st down. Sanchez didnt have any of that. Clear cut starter from day one for 3 straight years, its his offense, he has a great defense and a good offense. He did have ****tenheimer but Tebow had Fox as well, so theyre square there.

    You're very moved by his rushing yards, saying they are as good as passing yards. But if you look at total yards/game, it's not the same at all.

    Tebow averaged 47.1 Y/G rushing last season and 123.5 Y/G passing. So his combined production per game, even with his not-quite-pre-arrest-Vick-like rushing numbers was 170.6 Y/G.

    Sanchez' numbers? 6.4 and 217.1 for a combined 223.5. All-pro? No. 50+ Y/G better than Tebow? Yes. And the 2011 Jets offense was no more loaded at skill positions than the Broncos. Also, that Y/G number is better than any number Eli posted in his third, fourth and fifth seasons.

    So if the guy is rushing because he can't find a WR, that's not good. It didn't work for Vick (until he passed for 250 Y/G in 2010) and it's just not likely to work for anyone the way the game is structured. The Broncos started winning because their defense started giving up <15 pts/G.

    If we had a kid who looked like Aaron Rodgers stuck behind Favre waiting on the bench, I'd be all over it. But I'm still rooted in reality and I'd rather have the passer who won 4 playoff games in his first two years behind Center until further notice. Bring in Tebow on 3rd and short situations? Sure, I can get excited for that sometimes. But starting? No way.

  14. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    First of all this worst QB in the league stuff is ridiculous, and your attempts at sounding objective after that are lost. At worst Sanchez 23rd as Jaws has him. At best he's from 16-23. The team fell apart the last 3 games, and the OC is gone. Now the team is learning a new offense. If they struggle you leave him in there for at least a few games to see improvement, depending on why he's struggling. If the line can't block then I guess it would make sense to put Tebow in, and run the wishbone. If he's just trying to get teh reads, and timing down with the receivers then you leave him in. If it's because he's inaccurate, then what sense would it make to put the most inaccurate QB in history in the game? If we put in Tebow he's guaranteed to struggle. Every game he's been in has been a struggle. I'd rather see what McElroy, or Simms can do.
    Sanchez barely has a higher completion % than Tebow, so when you knock Tebows completion % you are knocking Sanchez as well. Also Tebow's style is different, he stretches the field a lot, of course he's not gonna connect all those balls. Demaryius Thomas is averaging close to 20yds per catch. Sanchez meanwhile throws less deep balls than anybody else, and he completes less deep balls than anybody else. And hes not even accurate with those short throws he makes. Anything under 65% with those short throws is not acceptable. And he's at 55% I believe. Thats good enough if you are Vick and you stretch the field a lot.

  15. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    Thats what these Sanchez Fanboys dont get, I'm not arguing whether Tebow is a great passer. My point is, if Tebow is so incredibly bad that he should the 5th QB on our depth chart, or even a FB like some of the Sanchez Fanboys suggest, how come a QB with a worse career QB rating (Sanchez) who is arguably the worst starting QB in the league over the last 3 years, is considered so good that he should be starting no matter what? And if its not about stats with Sanchez, why is it about stats with Tebow? Yes his completion % is bad, but he gets the job done. He got it done with a bad team last season, what makes people think he cant do it with a very good team? For the record: Sanchez is a better thrower than Tebow. That doesnt mean he's a better QB, it doesn't mean he gives us the best chance to win. Orton was a way better thrower than Tebow, yet the Broncos went 1-4 with him at QB. Tebow came in and they went like 7-1 the next 8 games. So lets forget about who has better mechanics, that doesnt guarantee you anything if the guy is missing the rest.
    When did I say it wasn't about numbers?

    He got WHAT done? Their offense didnt score, he sucked and their defense dominated in many of the games they won. They won in spite of terrible play from Tim quite often.

    And yes Sanchez is a better QB. Sanchez is better for this team as well. Tebow is a dead end proposition.. bc if Sanchez gets benched and Tebow comes in, the Jets will win enough where they wont be in position to draft another blue chip QB next year. And the Jets might delude themselves into thinking Tebow is a long term answer..

    In short, the QB long term for this team is either Sanchez or still in college. There isn't a chance in hell you're winning anything of significance with Tebow under center.

    This isn't about Mark. Im not attached to him. This is about your irrational love for Tebow (you wouldnt be arguing EVERY SINGLE DAY about him if it wasnt) and the fact that I disagree that Tebow is a viable option at QB. He ain't.. imo.

  16. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycdan View Post
    You're very moved by his rushing yards, saying they are as good as passing yards. But if you look at total yards/game, it's not the same at all.

    Tebow averaged 47.1 Y/G rushing last season and 123.5 Y/G passing. So his combined production per game, even with his not-quite-pre-arrest-Vick-like rushing numbers was 170.6 Y/G.

    Sanchez' numbers? 6.4 and 217.1 for a combined 223.5. All-pro? No. 50+ Y/G better than Tebow? Yes. And the 2011 Jets offense was no more loaded at skill positions than the Broncos. Also, that Y/G number is better than any number Eli posted in his third, fourth and fifth seasons.

    So if the guy is rushing because he can't find a WR, that's not good. It didn't work for Vick (until he passed for 250 Y/G in 2010) and it's just not likely to work for anyone the way the game is structured. The Broncos started winning because their defense started giving up <15 pts/G.

    If we had a kid who looked like Aaron Rodgers stuck behind Favre waiting on the bench, I'd be all over it. But I'm still rooted in reality and I'd rather have the passer who won 4 playoff games in his first two years behind Center until further notice. Bring in Tebow on 3rd and short situations? Sure, I can get excited for that sometimes. But starting? No way.
    So I take it you rather continue to lose with Sanchez then? Im glad Rex probably sees it different.

    Also, Sanchez is not Favre. We dont need the best QB in football on the bench for Sanchez to get out of the starting lineup.

  17. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    Sanchez barely has a higher completion % than Tebow, so when you knock Tebows completion % you are knocking Sanchez as well. Also Tebow's style is different, he stretches the field a lot, of course he's not gonna connect all those balls. Demaryius Thomas is averaging close to 20yds per catch. Sanchez meanwhile throws less deep balls than anybody else, and he completes less deep balls than anybody else. And hes not even accurate with those short throws he makes. Anything under 65% with those short throws is not acceptable. And he's at 55% I believe. Thats good enough if you are Vick and you stretch the field a lot.
    If you only throw 7 passes per game you should be at 80%.

  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    So I take it you rather continue to lose with Sanchez then? Im glad Rex probably sees it different.

    Also, Sanchez is not Favre. We dont need the best QB in football on the bench for Sanchez to get out of the starting lineup.
    2 out of three seasons into the AFCCG? Not the worst 3-year stretch I've seen. I actually think we can win with Sanchez because I've seen it happen.

    And you misunderstood my Rodgers reference. I'm saying Tebow isn't Rodgers so I have no urgency to see him play.

    Final thought. I'm convinced the Broncos HAD to sign Peyton as the only way they thought they could get rid of Tebow. He's that much of a PR problem (not his fault). The worst thing that could happen IMO is that Tebow actually does start. Then, as you said, we are stuck with a ceiliing that almost ensures limited upside until we can find a way to move him.

    You're trying to defend a shaky position and the fact that almost everyone else posting is telling you you're way out there on this one should at least give you pause, no? It's fine to believe what you believe but believing it to the point where you think everyone else is nuts is...well...usually nuts.

  19. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    So I take it you rather continue to lose with Sanchez then? Im glad Rex probably sees it different.

    Also, Sanchez is not Favre. We dont need the best QB in football on the bench for Sanchez to get out of the starting lineup.
    Wow, not sure this is worth jumping in since your mind is set.

    1. 26 passing td's and 6 rushing is far from one of the worst in the NFL

    2. The Jets have won 31 games including playoffs in three years, not bad since in that mix were two AFC championship games. For a fan like myself who had to wait from 82' until 98 to see another, two in a row was special.

    3. Sanchez is the qb, get over it.

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post

    "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" playing on the PA.


    SAR I
    Perfect theme song for the Jets.

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