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Thread: John Clayton - Reflecting on training camp travels

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    John Clayton - Reflecting on training camp travels

    Reflecting on training camp travels

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp1...g-camp-travels

    I shortened it to just the Jets points.

    After visiting 11 training camps in 10 days, there's a lot to digest.

    Initially, I worried about the impact of the new collective bargaining agreement on the camp tour. As it turned out, the one-practice-a-day mandate offered a more conducive schedule and more chances to see more teams. I was able to hit the Browns and Bills on the same day and the Jets and Eagles the next day.

    Here are 10 reflections from the camp visits, which covered 2,433 miles driven.

    1. Tebowmania can only hurt Mark Sanchez: The idea of replacing Sanchez with Tim Tebow in the red zone will only diminish Sanchez's reputation as a quarterback. In three seasons, Sanchez has proven he's more about the wins than the stats, but look at the statistical impact of taking Sanchez off the field in scoring situations. Last year, Sanchez completed 56.7 percent of his passes and had 26 touchdowns and 18 interceptions. I know the idea is to create a dual threat with Tebow as a runner and a thrower, but 12 of Sanchez's touchdown passes came in goal-to-go situations, according to ESPN Stats & Information. He completed 16 of 33 passes and had one interception on those plays. Take away those numbers and you have a starting quarterback with 14 touchdown passes and 16 interceptions. Even worse, he'll probably feel more compelled to gamble on a few throws from outside the 10-yard line that might end up being picked off, making his numbers worse. Twenty-one of his 26 touchdown passes were in the red zone. If you're going to be a playoff quarterback, shouldn't you have a chance to complete the drive?

    2. Who came up with the idea of making Tebow bigger? When Tebow took off his jersey during that rainy Saturday in Cortland, N.Y., you should have seen the reaction in Broncos camp. Broncos officials couldn't believe the Jets allowed Tebow to bulk up so much. He looked more like a fullback than a quarterback. "Name me a quarterback who is encouraged to get that big," a Broncos official said. "He came out of college weighing around 230 pounds." It's fine for the 6-foot-5 quarterbacks to weigh 250 pounds or more, but Tebow is little under 6-3. How can 15 extra pounds help his throwing?


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    are the Jets really going to put Tebow in for Sanchez in the redzone? I think that's a little bit of a smokescreen that EVERY media outlet believes is written in stone. I think Tebow is going to be more of a short yardage, so if the Jets are inside the 2, then maybe Tebow gets the call. Sparano is going to see the flow of the game to where Tebow gets snaps.

    But to everyone who thinks Tebow is going to be the redzone QB, you are wrong. looking in your direction expert John Clayton and most every other writer/analyst out there.

    Do they really think the Jets are going to tell everyone how they are going to use Tebow and be 100% honest with everything?

    As for Tebow getting bigger: hey Broncos, suck it. Maybe the Jets plan on being more creative and use his skills better than you did. worry about your own QB, the one who hasn't played in a year and a half and is coming off 4 neck surgeries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Reflecting on training camp travels

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp1...g-camp-travels

    I shortened it to just the Jets points.
    I am not a physiologist, but I know there are exercises that allow qbs to bulk up and not affect the throwing motion, the question is how much did he work out in that manner when he was 230#. If he was already at max, then the extra bulk will detract.

    Sanchez should not care who scores the points as long as they go up under the work Jets on the scoreboard. He has a 3 year contract for big bucks.
    A lot of the Short td passes last year went to Burress who is not hear now and the team has to get those points somehow.

    The only thing I don't like with Tebow coming in on the goal line is off side penalities and bad center exchanges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaJets View Post
    are the Jets really going to put Tebow in for Sanchez in the redzone? I think that's a little bit of a smokescreen that EVERY media outlet believes is written in stone. I think Tebow is going to be more of a short yardage, so if the Jets are inside the 2, then maybe Tebow gets the call. Sparano is going to see the flow of the game to where Tebow gets snaps.

    But to everyone who thinks Tebow is going to be the redzone QB, you are wrong. looking in your direction expert John Clayton and most every other writer/analyst out there.

    Do they really think the Jets are going to tell everyone how they are going to use Tebow and be 100% honest with everything?

    As for Tebow getting bigger: hey Broncos, suck it. Maybe the Jets plan on being more creative and use his skills better than you did. worry about your own QB, the one who hasn't played in a year and a half and is coming off 4 neck surgeries.
    I hated the Tebow trade, but this is a good post.

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    All of this is debatable. I don't think we can dismiss any criticisms b.c right now I don't even think the Jets are sure that this is going to work out or how they are going to handle it.

    I wonder if the Broncos official he is referring to is John Elway. I think he might know what he is talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaJets View Post
    are the Jets really going to put Tebow in for Sanchez in the redzone? I think that's a little bit of a smokescreen that EVERY media outlet believes is written in stone. I think Tebow is going to be more of a short yardage, so if the Jets are inside the 2, then maybe Tebow gets the call. Sparano is going to see the flow of the game to where Tebow gets snaps.

    But to everyone who thinks Tebow is going to be the redzone QB, you are wrong. looking in your direction expert John Clayton and most every other writer/analyst out there.

    Do they really think the Jets are going to tell everyone how they are going to use Tebow and be 100% honest with everything?

    As for Tebow getting bigger: hey Broncos, suck it. Maybe the Jets plan on being more creative and use his skills better than you did. worry about your own QB, the one who hasn't played in a year and a half and is coming off 4 neck surgeries.
    What does it matter what the jets say or don't now. Assuming they have 20 specific plays for Tebow, by the 4th game the whole NFL would have seen 90% of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaJets View Post
    are the Jets really going to put Tebow in for Sanchez in the redzone? I think that's a little bit of a smokescreen that EVERY media outlet believes is written in stone. I think Tebow is going to be more of a short yardage, so if the Jets are inside the 2, then maybe Tebow gets the call. Sparano is going to see the flow of the game to where Tebow gets snaps.

    But to everyone who thinks Tebow is going to be the redzone QB, you are wrong. looking in your direction expert John Clayton and most every other writer/analyst out there.

    Do they really think the Jets are going to tell everyone how they are going to use Tebow and be 100% honest with everything?

    As for Tebow getting bigger: hey Broncos, suck it. Maybe the Jets plan on being more creative and use his skills better than you did. worry about your own QB, the one who hasn't played in a year and a half and is coming off 4 neck surgeries.
    Lets not get carried away with media references to the "Red Zone".

    Will tebow come in on first and 10 at the 18....NO.

    Will he come in on first and goal at the 2 or 3 yard line....Id think yes.

    The good thing is this will hopefully eliminate our passes on 2nd and goal from the 2 that schotty always loved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Lets not get carried away with media references to the "Red Zone".

    Will tebow come in on first and 10 at the 18....NO.

    Will he come in on first and goal at the 2 or 3 yard line....Id think yes.

    The good thing is this will hopefully eliminate our passes on 2nd and goal from the 2 that schotty always loved.
    I think the Jets will use him as the flow of the game dictates. Likely a lot in short yardage and times to keep the defense off balance.

    but, as a former sports media member, it really frustrates me to read some of the things these guys write.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    What does it matter what the jets say or don't now. Assuming they have 20 specific plays for Tebow, by the 4th game the whole NFL would have seen 90% of them.
    yes, its foolish.

    the jets might as well just tell the rest of the league exactly how they will use Tebow.

    same old Jets, amirite? I mean, no other team would even think of holding back information on offensive strategy during preseason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    The good thing is this will hopefully eliminate our passes on 2nd and goal from the 2 that schotty always loved.
    ugh...

    don't forget the empty backfield. Gotta make sure the defense is aware that we're going to pass, so they can prepare accordingly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    What does it matter what the jets say or don't now. Assuming they have 20 specific plays for Tebow, by the 4th game the whole NFL would have seen 90% of them.
    the whole NFL knew all Tebow's plays last season and he still ran for 5.4 per carry. The year before, 5.3 ypc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtstar View Post
    ugh...

    don't forget the empty backfield. Gotta make sure the defense is aware that we're going to pass, so they can prepare accordingly.
    Ha! Thats my favorite....not to mention, we split keller out on those, so the defense knew we had 5 lineman and were passing. Time to get in a track stance and full speed ahead, i wonder why Dbrick and Hunter had so much trouble (and yes Hunters skill level didnt help). But hanging guys out to dry was schottys MO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaJets View Post
    I think the Jets will use him as the flow of the game dictates. Likely a lot in short yardage and times to keep the defense off balance.

    but, as a former sports media member, it really frustrates me to read some of the things these guys write.
    I really think the media guys are in a tough spot. 10-20 years ago, writers had to develop trust in order to get good stories, and if you printed something that was wrong or supposed to be kept under wraps, you simply lost your access.

    Now NO ONE has to substantiate their stories, so guys can post anything they want. Plus, if you stick to the old school way, you simply wont have enough to report, wont get "twitter hits", or page views on your articles and you will be out of a job.

    It really is amazing how good jenny is at this though....hopefully she sticks to her guns and gets rewarded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I really think the media guys are in a tough spot. 10-20 years ago, writers had to develop trust in order to get good stories, and if you printed something that was wrong or supposed to be kept under wraps, you simply lost your access.

    Now NO ONE has to substantiate their stories, so guys can post anything they want. Plus, if you stick to the old school way, you simply wont have enough to report, wont get "twitter hits", or page views on your articles and you will be out of a job.

    It really is amazing how good jenny is at this though....hopefully she sticks to her guns and gets rewarded.
    you nailed it. I am young (didn't use a typewriter), but just got out of it. I guess my biggest peeve is the fans/audience only see what the media wants you to see -- for the most part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtstar View Post
    ugh...

    don't forget the empty backfield. Gotta make sure the defense is aware that we're going to pass, so they can prepare accordingly.
    Uggh, that had to be what I hated about Schitty the most....going empty inside the 10...sure, let's tell the defense they don't have to even consider the run, brilliant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtstar View Post
    ugh...

    don't forget the empty backfield. Gotta make sure the defense is aware that we're going to pass, so they can prepare accordingly.
    I bet the slant will work right here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaJets View Post
    the whole NFL knew all Tebow's plays last season and he still ran for 5.4 per carry. The year before, 5.3 ypc
    +1

    This isn't Tecmo Bowl where is you pick the correct play on D, the ball carrier gets crushed. In the NFL you still have to execute to stop a play. At this point, most teams know all the opponents running plays, yet teams still run the ball. With Tebow running Gator, the D is at a disadvantage already because it has an extra player/blocker to account for. The only real way to stop it consistently is to commit Safties to stopping the run and coming up hard to fill the alley... That's great, but you are going to open yourself up for some deep balls over the top.

    Do you remember how hard it was for us to stop Ronnie Brown a few years back? If he could throw at all, he would have been able to burn us deep at will, and I'd you keep your Safties back an extra second, the jets will grind out 3 to 6 yard gains at will, and bust a few big ones as well.

    The biggest difference is that teams will have to prepare for 2 different game plans. If they neglect to put enough time in on Stopping Tebow, the Jets can ground and pound them into submission. If they focus too much on Tebow, Sanchez might be able to make a few more big plays.

    I really don't see how adding te element of Tebow to our gameplan can be a bad thing. Yes you might have fans calling for Tebow if Mark struggles, but the fans are going to boo him if he struggles regardless.

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    Why would you let a QB get so big? He's not a QB. I agree with Eagle. 2 yard line is Tebow zone. It won't hurt Mark any if Tebow takes away a few of his runs/handoffs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gastineau99 View Post
    +1

    This isn't Tecmo Bowl where is you pick the correct play on D, the ball carrier gets crushed. In the NFL you still have to execute to stop a play. At this point, most teams know all the opponents running plays, yet teams still run the ball. With Tebow running Gator, the D is at a disadvantage already because it has an extra player/blocker to account for. The only real way to stop it consistently is to commit Safties to stopping the run and coming up hard to fill the alley... That's great, but you are going to open yourself up for some deep balls over the top.

    Do you remember how hard it was for us to stop Ronnie Brown a few years back? If he could throw at all, he would have been able to burn us deep at will, and I'd you keep your Safties back an extra second, the jets will grind out 3 to 6 yard gains at will, and bust a few big ones as well.

    The biggest difference is that teams will have to prepare for 2 different game plans. If they neglect to put enough time in on Stopping Tebow, the Jets can ground and pound them into submission. If they focus too much on Tebow, Sanchez might be able to make a few more big plays.

    I really don't see how adding te element of Tebow to our gameplan can be a bad thing. Yes you might have fans calling for Tebow if Mark struggles, but the fans are going to boo him if he struggles regardless.
    +100000000000000

    Unless it is obviously take rhythm away from Sanchez.

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    Is there some reason why Clayton had to actually be at camp to come up with these brilliant observations? Did he happen to mention anything about what he saw at camp and, compare that to other camps he visited?

    The Jets were already good in the red zone.

    Tebow looks too big running topless in the rain.

    I'm sure Clayton dissected that game film intensively, but he didn't need to visit camp for that.

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