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Thread: patrick turner

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARodFLKeysJetsFan View Post
    Turner can be a good 4th receiver, very underrated.
    You don't keep people around because they can be a 4th WR. You kep guys as your 4th WR because you think they CAN become your number 1 or 2 WR someday.

    Turner's problem is no upside. On a team without offensive playmakers, that is a problem.

    Holmes - slightly above avg starter - not a star
    Hill - rookie WR's struggle, but a potential star
    Kerley - potential good slot WR in the league

    Turner - jag with low upside
    Schillens - not optimistic, but potential upside.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    You don't keep people around because they can be a 4th WR. You kep guys as your 4th WR because you think they CAN become your number 1 or 2 WR someday.

    Turner's problem is no upside. On a team without offensive playmakers, that is a problem.

    Holmes - slightly above avg starter - not a star
    Hill - rookie WR's struggle, but a potential star
    Kerley - potential good slot WR in the league

    Turner - jag with low upside
    Schillens - not optimistic, but potential upside.
    Well it really comes down to Schillens, White & Turner - I don't think Schillens can stay healthy, White is a rookie & also has injury concerns, unless one of these other UDFA rookie WR's (and there are a few of them) - or White - comes out of nowhere and lights the world on fire in the next few weeks. I have no confidence in Schillens whatsoever, but, maybe he can stay healthy & prove me wrong, who knows.

    Turner is a big red zone target who could fill the roll of Plax, he has been here and has a rapport with Sanchez going back to their college days & realistically has the best chance of sticking around in my opinion. It was also Turner that caught the 60 yd bomb from Tebow in practice.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ARodFLKeysJetsFan View Post
    Well it really comes down to Schillens, White & Turner - I don't think Schillens can stay healthy, White is a rookie & also has injury concerns, unless one of these other UDFA rookie WR's (and there are a few of them) - or White - comes out of nowhere and lights the world on fire in the next few weeks. I have no confidence in Schillens whatsoever, but, maybe he can stay healthy & prove me wrong, who knows.

    Turner is a big red zone target who could fill the roll of Plax, he has been here and has a rapport with Sanchez going back to their college days & realistically has the best chance of sticking around in my opinion. It was also Turner that caught the 60 yd bomb from Tebow in practice.
    I think people have written off Turner too fast because of his struggles early on in his career. Turner was the #1 wr in the nation coming out of high school and was a third round pick by the Dolphins in 2009.

    He is never going to blow the top off the defense or take it the distance on a run after catch, but he can definitely be a big reliable target who can move the chains.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maury77 View Post
    I think people have written off Turner too fast because of his struggles early on in his career. Turner was the #1 wr in the nation coming out of high school and was a third round pick by the Dolphins in 2009.

    He is never going to blow the top off the defense or take it the distance on a run after catch, but he can definitely be a big reliable target who can move the chains.
    Yes. People that say Turner has no upside, or that he's a JAG must not know much about him. He does have attributes that are certainly not run of the mill.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maury77 View Post
    I think people have written off Turner too fast because of his struggles early on in his career. Turner was the #1 wr in the nation coming out of high school and was a third round pick by the Dolphins in 2009.

    He is never going to blow the top off the defense or take it the distance on a run after catch, but he can definitely be a big reliable target who can move the chains.
    The part in bold is exactly why he is a JAG. The fact that he is likely to make the roster (I agree he is probably the best option for a 4th receiver) is a testament to Tanny's failures with respect to the offense.

    1) RB Corp - average at best, only Powell might have great upside (not counting Ganaway b/c he is raw).
    2) TE Corp - only Keller isn't a complete failure. No upside in the remaining cast.
    3) WR Corp - see prior post
    4) QB Corp - Sanchez is average to above average NFL starter. Tebow can't throw and the third QB has a noodle arm.
    5) Offensive Line - average at best. No Depth

    - No gamebreakers ready to go now.
    - Few players with the upside to become gamebreakers

  6. #26
    If you have done SQUAT with your time in the league (Turner), then you are a JAG. I don't care what he did in High School! He is by defibation a JAG.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    The part in bold is exactly why he is a JAG. The fact that he is likely to make the roster (I agree he is probably the best option for a 4th receiver) is a testament to Tanny's failures with respect to the offense.

    1) RB Corp - average at best, only Powell might have great upside (not counting Ganaway b/c he is raw).
    2) TE Corp - only Keller isn't a complete failure. No upside in the remaining cast.
    3) WR Corp - see prior post
    4) QB Corp - Sanchez is average to above average NFL starter. Tebow can't throw and the third QB has a noodle arm.
    5) Offensive Line - average at best. No Depth

    - No gamebreakers ready to go now.
    - Few players with the upside to become gamebreakers
    Really? So Keyshawn was a JAG? Cotch? Welker? How much time do you have, I can keep going.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    The man makes no diiference on the field. We need playmakers at WR, not good blockers.
    I heard Matt Jones is coming out of retirement...




  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Maury77 View Post
    Really? So Keyshawn was a JAG? Cotch? Welker? How much time do you have, I can keep going.
    +1

    And I'm sure we can list 4.2 guys that did squat in the NFL too

    Jets WR Dexter Jackson (an ex 2nd round pick of TB) one to start...If Digetydog even knows who he is

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maury77 View Post
    Really? So Keyshawn was a JAG? Cotch? Welker? How much time do you have, I can keep going.
    If you think Turner is in the same discussion as Welker, I don't think you understand the WR position in the NFL.

    Turner is big (a plus), has below average speed (a negative) for a WR, and has average hands (even).
    - In 2011, he had EIGHT catches.
    - In 2010, he had 2 receptions. That is only two more than me!!!

    His career best game involved 3 receptions for 36 yards. He hasn't even had a 100 season much less a 100 yard game in a 4 year career. He is what he is - nothing special.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    If you keep a WR just because he can block, you need to get your priorities in order as a franchise. WR's a on teams to be Playmakers - not blockers. Good franchises stockpile guys who are playmakers or who can develop into one. Turner never will be special.

    The Jets offense is starved for playmakers. Holmes is not a top 10 WR and Hill is a rookie. Instead of wasting the roster spot on Turner, they should be giving it to guys who can be Victor Cruz or Miles Austin!
    Please just stop, you contradict yourself in your post and just make yourself look even worse than you already have. You want the Jets to stockpile talent that can develop into playmakers, yet in the same sentence you bash Hill for being a rookie. Last time I checked Hill was a tremendous talent that can become a great playmaker. Victor Cruz and Miles Austin were considered longshots who developed into great players after a few seasons. Maybe just maybe you should give our guys time to develop. Screw player development, if they aren't all pro after two weeks of camp and one preseason game they will never be any use to the team ever.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    The part in bold is exactly why he is a JAG. The fact that he is likely to make the roster (I agree he is probably the best option for a 4th receiver) is a testament to Tanny's failures with respect to the offense.

    1) RB Corp - average at best, only Powell might have great upside (not counting Ganaway b/c he is raw).
    2) TE Corp - only Keller isn't a complete failure. No upside in the remaining cast.
    3) WR Corp - see prior post
    4) QB Corp - Sanchez is average to above average NFL starter. Tebow can't throw and the third QB has a noodle arm.
    5) Offensive Line - average at best. No Depth

    - No gamebreakers ready to go now.
    - Few players with the upside to become gamebreakers
    Throwing the label on someone as a JAG is a convenient way to denigrate a player, but its not always a negative. I think everyone concedes that he's a #4 type WR who isn't going to be setting the world on fire. That's not his role - no one expects that. We need a guy that can run a decent route, get open in the intermediate range, especially when he's being covered man to man by a nickel/dime back, someone who has the sense to find a soft spot in a zone and catch a ball for a first down.

    He's not getting 50 snaps a game - he may get 10. Your #4 WR is going to be a JAG. If he isn't, he's not going to be a #4, but rather a #2 somewhere for decently high bucks. In Turner's case, his lack of speed is what keeps him from being any higher on the depth chart. But, his height and his developing rapport with Sanchez makes him valuable in his role. At least valuable enough to mostly guarantee him a roster spot and real playing time.

    Niche guys like this often times can make a difference. He may not have a catch all game and then come in and make a key conversion or two and even go up for one in the end zone.

    I've got some real problems with the potential make up of this team. I have no problems with Patrick Turner.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Led Halen View Post
    Please just stop, you contradict yourself in your post and just make yourself look even worse than you already have. You want the Jets to stockpile talent that can develop into playmakers, yet in the same sentence you bash Hill for being a rookie. Last time I checked Hill was a tremendous talent that can become a great playmaker. Victor Cruz and Miles Austin were considered longshots who developed into great players after a few seasons. Maybe just maybe you should give our guys time to develop. Screw player development, if they aren't all pro after two weeks of camp and one preseason game they will never be any use to the team ever.
    I am not bashing Hill for being a rookie. He has enormous upside and has the potential to develop into something special. I hope he turns into a great pick.

    Nevertheless, the facts are simple: rookie WRs (even really good ones) don't typically have great rookie years in the NFL. I hope Hill is the exception (and there are exceptions - Randy Moss).

    BUT - the majority of great WR's breakout in their 2nd and 3rd year. Just to name a few, Megatron, Larry Fitzgerald, Jerry Rice, and TO. In each case, their production essentially doubled in their 2nd year.

    I hope Hill follows their path.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    Turner is a JAG. Just a Guy who takes up roster space without making a rea difference. Need an upgrade.
    I agree 100%

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    Throwing the label on someone as a JAG is a convenient way to denigrate a player, but its not always a negative. I think everyone concedes that he's a #4 type WR who isn't going to be setting the world on fire. That's not his role - no one expects that. We need a guy that can run a decent route, get open in the intermediate range, especially when he's being covered man to man by a nickel/dime back, someone who has the sense to find a soft spot in a zone and catch a ball for a first down.

    He's not getting 50 snaps a game - he may get 10. Your #4 WR is going to be a JAG. If he isn't, he's not going to be a #4, but rather a #2 somewhere for decently high bucks. In Turner's case, his lack of speed is what keeps him from being any higher on the depth chart. But, his height and his developing rapport with Sanchez makes him valuable in his role. At least valuable enough to mostly guarantee him a roster spot and real playing time.

    Niche guys like this often times can make a difference. He may not have a catch all game and then come in and make a key conversion or two and even go up for one in the end zone.

    I've got some real problems with the potential make up of this team. I have no problems with Patrick Turner.
    You made some very good points. My problems with Turner are not personal.

    Mostly, my problem with with Tanny for not investing in the offensive talent around Sanchize.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    You made some very good points. My problems with Turner are not personal.

    Mostly, my problem with with Tanny for not investing in the offensive talent around Sanchize.
    Such as?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    If you think Turner is in the same discussion as Welker, I don't think you understand the WR position in the NFL.

    Turner is big (a plus), has below average speed (a negative) for a WR, and has average hands (even).
    - In 2011, he had EIGHT catches.
    - In 2010, he had 2 receptions. That is only two more than me!!!

    His career best game involved 3 receptions for 36 yards. He hasn't even had a 100 season much less a 100 yard game in a 4 year career. He is what he is - nothing special.
    No, I think you don't understand how to articulate or understand a point. You said that if a player is not a deep threat he is a JAG. My point is that there are countless wr who are not deep threats but are very valuable contributors to their team.

    I'm not saying that Turner is the next Al Toon, but he is a big body that can catch. If he can catch 30 to 40 passes this year as a backup WR, that is a very good thing. I would prefer to rely on him than signing another washed up WR, a la Derrick Mason.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maury77 View Post
    No, I think you don't understand how to articulate or understand a point. You said that if a player is not a deep threat he is a JAG. My point is that there are countless wr who are not deep threats but are very valuable contributors to their team.

    I'm not saying that Turner is the next Al Toon, but he is a big body that can catch. If he can catch 30 to 40 passes this year as a backup WR, that is a very good thing. I would prefer to rely on him than signing another washed up WR, a la Derrick Mason.
    First of all, there are(have been) plenty of WR's who are not deep threats that are outstanding WR's.

    Second, unless he improves (and I hope he does), there is no way that he will force his way into the rotation so that 30-40 receptions becomes likely.

    IMHO - the only way he catches 30+ balls is if someone in front of him gets hurt.

    At this point, he just isn't anything special.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    You made some very good points. My problems with Turner are not personal.

    Mostly, my problem with with Tanny for not investing in the offensive talent around Sanchize.
    JMO - if you want to make the case that the RT position and the #2 WR are unsettled - I think you have a legit argument. But, I don't have a problem with the likes of Turner, Schilens and J. White filling out the back end of our WR cadre. Having Stephen Hill asked to be our #2 WR in his rookie year, however, might be a bit much to ask for, however.

    But assuming Holmes, Kerley and Keller are healthy to start the year, I think we should be OK as far as receiving options. I'd like to see Kerley and Holmes get into the Giant game though. It would go a long way to putting everyone's fears at ease - at least to some extent.

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