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Thread: Tebow under center.

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demosthenes9 View Post
    Good lord. The overall point that I was making was that Elway wanted a "stand in the pocket and throw it passer" That was his big fight with Reeves.



    If you don't like the source, here it is from a news outlet in Denver:




    Or how about the Chicago Sun Times ?

    http://www.suntimes.com/sports/footb...arting-qb.html




    The FACT is that Tebow's style is very similar to Elway's. Tebow runs the ball more of course, but if Elway saw 10 open yards in front of him, he'd tuck it down and run as well. Both guys would scramble away from the "protection schemes" and try to extend plays.

    Elway was a much better passer of course, and had a much stronger arm, but they were indeed very similar.
    “Hopefully, I can teach him what I learned over my 16-year career,” Elway said, “to be able to tell him what I learned in Year 10, hopefully get that to him in year 3 or 4.”
    [/QUOTE]

    Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

    Tebow is not a pocket passer and probably never will be.

    Elway WAS a pocket passer who had scrambling ability.

    This is why no one likes discussing anything with you.

    You come back with more spin when the whole premise of your point is nonsense. And you argue points that have little to no relevance to the topic at hand.

    Elway didn't want Tebow. Probably because he realized he'd never be a pocket passer. If he thought for one second he could transform him into one, he would have kept him. And he may have kept him otherwise due to his athletic football abilities, which no one denies. But I believe that Elway didn't want the distraction THAT IS Tim Tebow. The distraction that we, as Jets fans (I said "we," not you), are now ALL to familiar with.

    It has NOTHING to do with how John Elway played and John Elway is NO WAY a hypocrite for not wanting Tim Tebow. Which is pretty much what you are implying with your little Dan Reeves story.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Gotta love when we voice an opinion on why Elway did something--based upon numerous reports and rumors--we get asked "Did Elway call you?"

    Yet Demo actually has to make up stuff that NO ONE has ever heard about, nor even THOUGHT about, to make his point.

    A rift in the lockeroom?

    Embarrassing.

    _
    The problem is, YOU haven't based a damned thing on "numerous reports and rumors". All you've done is stated your over inflated opinion, and you haven't backed any of it up with a farking thing.

    That's your standard MO though, so it's not surprising.

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post

    Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

    Tebow is not a pocket passer and probably never will be.

    Elway WAS a pocket passer who had scrambling ability.

    This is why no one likes discussing anything with you.

    You come back with more spin when the whole premise of your point is nonsense. And you argue points that have little to no relevance to the topic at hand.

    Elway didn't want Tebow. Probably because he realized he'd never be a pocket passer. If he thought for one second he could transform him into one, he would have kept him. And he may have kept him otherwise due to his athletic football abilities, which no one denies. But I believe that Elway didn't want the distraction THAT IS Tim Tebow. The distraction that we, as Jets fans (I said "we," not you), are now ALL to familiar with.

    It has NOTHING to do with how John Elway played and John Elway is NO WAY a hypocrite for not wanting Tim Tebow. Which is pretty much what you are implying with your little Dan Reeves story.


    God, you're in full denial mode. I just posted multiple sources talking about how Elway wasn't a "pocket passer" until later in his career, and how he said that he wanted to help Tebow learn what took him so many years, and you just ignore it and say "Elway was a pocket passer".

    ****ing amazing.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    It has NOTHING to do with how John Elway played and John Elway is NO WAY a hypocrite for not wanting Tim Tebow. Which is pretty much what you are implying with your little Dan Reeves story.

    And no, I'm NOT implying that Elway was being a hypocrite. That's your own farked up interpretation.

    What I did point out was the irony of the situation.

  5. #365
    Don't worry, guys. In a year when Tebow is traded, we won't have to put up with this nonsense anymore.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by McGinley View Post
    Don't worry, guys. In a year when Tebow is traded, we won't have to put up with this nonsense anymore.
    Hmm, let's look at what you are referring to as nonsense.

    JStokes says that the players hated Tebow. Some of you all laughed at such a silly statement, and I demonstrated that he was wrong.

    Jordy put forth the notion that Elway was always a pocket passer, and I posted articles and quotes showing that Elway himself disagreed with that. That it wasn't until later in his career that he actually became "a pocket passer".

    You all keep coming up with a bunch of bull**** or personal opinions that you can't back up, other than to say "yeah, because I think so", while I've put forth facts and documentation.

    Yet I'm the one spouting nonsense huh ?? That's pretty funny.

  7. #367
    This kid really likes trying to talk up Tebow.

    Tim is trash as a QB and everyone (including Elway) knows it. Case closed. Stay mad.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by McGinley View Post
    This kid really likes trying to talk up Tebow.

    Tim is trash as a QB and everyone (including Elway) knows it. Case closed. Stay mad.
    Do you put a lot of stock in what John Elway has shown as GM?

    Did you get treated well at his dealership, and assume he will be equally as brilliant as a GM of an NFL team?

    Why is his opinion higher than anybody else in the NFL?

    1/2 the QB's in the NFL were on the fence when Peyton Manning came available.

    The only thing horse face has shown for certain is that he does a great job of talking out of both sides of his mouth.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demosthenes9 View Post
    God, you're in full denial mode. I just posted multiple sources talking about how Elway wasn't a "pocket passer" until later in his career, and how he said that he wanted to help Tebow learn what took him so many years, and you just ignore it and say "Elway was a pocket passer".

    ****ing amazing.
    LOL.

    You took ONE quote from Elway that was reported in multiple sources.

    You're hanging your hat on that ONE quote.

    Let me tell you, I watched Elway at Stanford and I watched Elway from Day 1 in the NFL.

    Elway WAS a pocket passer at Stanford. He was also very athletic and was able to scramble. But he was a pocket passer. They didn't run spread offenses. They ran from a pro-style offense.

    Elway was a pocket passer in the NFL his entire career. To say he wasn't or to compare his style to Tebow in ANY way whatsover is laughable.

    Elway's problem early on was that he had a terrible offensive line and he had mediocre talent around him at the skill positions. THIS is what led Elway to scramble and not stay in the pocket. He was running for his life. When guys like Gary Zimmerman came along, the OL started to become more stable and allowed Elway to stay in the pocket longer. Yes he "moved around" more than Reeves wanted him too, but that's a FAR CRY from what Tebow is doing.

    To argue that Reeves wanted Elway to stay in the pocket doesn't translate into Elway not being a pocket passer. You are taking that quote from Elway and the "rift" between Elway and Reeves and turning it into something it's not.
    Last edited by Jordy; 08-17-2012 at 11:19 AM.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demosthenes9 View Post
    The problem is, YOU haven't based a damned thing on "numerous reports and rumors". All you've done is stated your over inflated opinion, and you haven't backed any of it up with a farking thing.

    That's your standard MO though, so it's not surprising.
    Oh, I'm sorry, you've spent all that time in the lockerroom and on the phone with Elway and all the Broncos players so you must know better.

    Here's what we (NFL football fans) "heard" over the years, reports, rumors, speculation, media driven crap. Not the hard evidence that you've been throwing out there, because you're so tied into the Broncos--being a huge fan for 2 years, just like you're a big Jet fan now. We just hear what gets reported by the media or gets talked about on sports talk radio or in the tabloids--because we're not following a player around to all his teams looking for evidence to back up your spin.

    Coming out of college, most reports were that his throwing motion and mechanics would cause him to have a real problem making consistent NFL quality throws. That has proven to be true.

    Tebow was projected as a 3rd or 4th rounder unless someone was stupid enough to take a chance on him in the first. So that idiot Josh McDaniels drafted him IN THE FIRST ROUND--and proceded to get him self fired--not because of Tebow, but his idiocy has proven to be true.

    Most experts/pundits/analysts STILL think Tewbow's throwing motion and mechanics are screwed up. Are there a handful of folks that think they can be fixed? Yeah, probably the same guys who have been saying they can be fixed for 6 years now--and NOTHING has been fixed. That has proven to be true.

    All reports were that John Elway couldn't stand Tebow from the start--because he didn't think he could ever be turned into a legitimate NFL QB AND because of the massive cluster-f*ck his circus was bringing to the Bronocos organization. He couldn't even commit to Tebow being the started for this year after his miraculous road to the playoffs (including his playing like sh*t his last 3 games to clinch that final spot). The look on Elways face during the Pitt playoff win looked like the fakest most painful smile in NFL history because he KNEW he was going to have to pull out a miracle to dump him--enter Peyton Manning like manna from heaven.

    So he dumped him at the first possible moment for basically nothing. Not because of a possible "rift" (which is comical) or because he wanted a pocket passer due to his early rifts with Reeves (equally comical). There was no feeling out period or seeing if something could work--he wanted him GONE as fast as possible. That has been proven to be true.

    Most resports out of Bronco-land were that MANY players--mostly on the defense--were chapped by Tebow getting all the recognition and platitudes for winning games that the defense had basically held in check thoughout all Tebow's league leading 3 and outs, only to win by some fluke at the end of the game. You may care not to believe it, but it's what was being said all over the league.

    Most reports out of Bronoco-land were that the receiver corps couldn't stand the guy because, well, he couldn't throw.

    Most of the reports out of Bronco-land were that Tebow's whole circus act following was wearing thin with the players.

    Look, you may choose to think Tebow is going to eventually be a great QB in the NFL. You may choose to beleive his mecahincs can be fixed. You may choose to believe that Elway traded him for positive reasons. You may choose to believe he was universally loved in that lockeroom. You may even find a tweet or a report or and article or a quote by a player here, a FO person there, a media person somewhere--hell Skip Bayless LOVES the guy--that supports your views. You realize nobody wants to put there name to truly negative stuff about other players--but tweeting a platitutde usually is sent out there to make the tweeter look like the good guy.

    You can choose to believe all that.

    It's delusional.

    We didn't invent the rumors/reports/analysis--it's just out there. Want me to find the quotes? Nah, I have too many better things to do than sit around all day and search for quotes and tweets to prove some delusional point on a rival teams message board. That's what YOU do.

    Why don't you do what you always do--cut this post up into 30 little bits--address them one-by-one--add tweets and old articles and reports that as outliers in your mind will prove the norm--also add some red shiny letters, that's always a good childish trick. [Btw, I've explained this before--when someone on the internet says "all" or "everyone", they don't mean literally 100% of the people--it's a colloquial statment used to imply almost everyone or nearly everyone or an overwhelming majority].

    Seriously, go ahead, get the last word. Nothing I've said here is true--YOU'VE go the inside scoop on ALL the rea levidence--but your opinions and reasons are delusional. I'm sure YOU believe them.

    _

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdJETSetter View Post
    Do you put a lot of stock in what John Elway has shown as GM?

    Did you get treated well at his dealership, and assume he will be equally as brilliant as a GM of an NFL team?

    Why is his opinion higher than anybody else in the NFL?

    1/2 the QB's in the NFL were on the fence when Peyton Manning came available.

    The only thing horse face has shown for certain is that he does a great job of talking out of both sides of his mouth.
    So I take this to mean you're a big Tebow fan?
    Last edited by Jordy; 08-17-2012 at 10:47 AM.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Oh, I'm sorry, you've spent all that time in the lockerroom and on the phone with Elway and all the Broncos players so you must know better.

    Here's what we (NFL football fans) "heard" over the years, reports, rumors, speculation, media driven crap. Not the hard evidence that you've been throwing out there, because you're so tied into the Broncos--being a huge fan for 2 years, just like you're a big Jet fan now. We just hear what gets reported by the media or gets talked about on sports talk radio or in the tabloids--because we're not following a player around to all his teams looking for evidence to back up your spin.

    Coming out of college, most reports were that his throwing motion and mechanics would cause him to have a real problem making consistent NFL quality throws. That has proven to be true.

    Tebow was projected as a 3rd or 4th rounder unless someone was stupid enough to take a chance on him in the first. So that idiot Josh McDaniels drafted him IN THE FIRST ROUND--and proceded to get him self fired--not because of Tebow, but his idiocy has proven to be true.

    Most experts/pundits/analysts STILL think Tewbow's throwing motion and mechanics are screwed up. Are there a handful of folks that think they can be fixed? Yeah, probably the same guys who have been saying they can be fixed for 6 years now--and NOTHING has been fixed. That has proven to be true.
    So what ? It's not a question of whether his mechanics are screwed up, rather, it's of whether or not they can be fixed.


    BTW, add another name to the list of people who think that Tebow CAN fix his mechanics, that of HoF'er Steve Young.



    All reports were that John Elway couldn't stand Tebow from the start--because he didn't think he could ever be turned into a legitimate NFL QB AND because of the massive cluster-f*ck his circus was bringing to the Bronocos organization. He couldn't even commit to Tebow being the started for this year after his miraculous road to the playoffs (including his playing like sh*t his last 3 games to clinch that final spot). The look on Elways face during the Pitt playoff win looked like the fakest most painful smile in NFL history because he KNEW he was going to have to pull out a miracle to dump him--enter Peyton Manning like manna from heaven.
    The reports were that Elway wanted a traditional pocket passer. YOUR ignorant view is that Elway couldn't stand him.


    Most resports out of Bronco-land were that MANY players--mostly on the defense--were chapped by Tebow getting all the recognition and platitudes for winning games that the defense had basically held in check thoughout all Tebow's league leading 3 and outs, only to win by some fluke at the end of the game. You may care not to believe it, but it's what was being said all over the league.
    That's pure, unmitigated BULL****. What you are probably thinking about is players on OTHER TEAMS not being happy about all the pub he was getting.


    Most reports out of Bronoco-land were that the receiver corps couldn't stand the guy because, well, he couldn't throw.

    Most of the reports out of Bronco-land were that Tebow's whole circus act following was wearing thin with the players.
    Again, total bull****.


    We didn't invent the rumors/reports/analysis--it's just out there. Want me to find the quotes? Nah, I have too many better things to do than sit around all day and search for quotes and tweets to prove some delusional point on a rival teams message board. That's what YOU do.
    The reason you won't find and post the quotes is because you CAN'T. Example, you claim that there were "all these reports", right ? Remember after Tebow was traded and Demaryius Thomas did his little radio interview ? Why was it such a big deal that he seemed to "diss" Tebow ? Because he was the first to say anything of the sort. Even then, he clarified his comments.

    You said that ALL the players disliked him. Then, when I called your dumb ass on that, you went on and on about how "all" didn't really mean "all", that perhaps there were exceptions.

    Guess what ? You haven't demonstrated that even a handful on the entire roster disliked Tebow. But no, I'm the clueless one huh ? I'm the one who doesn't get it.

    What you have done is to project your own beliefs onto those players in the locker room. You are so convinced that your dumb assed beliefs are correct, that anyone who dares challenge them, and point out just how ****ed up they are, must be delusional.


    Why don't you do what you always do--cut this post up into 30 little bits--address them one-by-one--add tweets and old articles and reports that as outliers in your mind will prove the norm--also add some red shiny letters, that's always a good childish trick. [Btw, I've explained this before--when someone on the internet says "all" or "everyone", they don't mean literally 100% of the people--it's a colloquial statment used to imply almost everyone or nearly everyone or an overwhelming majority].
    Yep, there it is. Again, YOU HAVE NO FREAKING PROOF OF THIS and HAVEN'T OFFERED A SINGLE BIT OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT. The only thing you have is your ****ed up, over inflated opinion.


    The reason that I cut up the posts and address the points one by one is because you POST SO MANY ****ED UP, BULL**** STATEMENTS. I take them one at a time and demonstrate, rather clearly, that YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE **** YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
    Last edited by Demosthenes9; 08-17-2012 at 03:28 PM.

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demosthenes9 View Post

    Yep, there it is. Again, YOU HAVE NO FREAKING PROOF OF THIS and HAVEN'T OFFERED A SINGLE BIT OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT. The only thing you have is your ****ed up, over inflated opinion.
    Blahblahblahblah.

    _

  14. #374
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    What is it with the Jets and QBs who can't throw? First Chad, now this guy....

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    Ok boys... Lets get back to talking about actual football please.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    LOL.

    You took ONE quote from Elway that was reported in multiple sources.

    You're hanging your hat on that ONE quote.
    I posted the one quote because my GoogleFu isn't up to par right now for finding more quotes.


    Let me tell you, I watched Elway at Stanford and I watched Elway from Day 1 in the NFL.

    Elway WAS a pocket passer at Stanford. He was also very athletic and was able to scramble. But he was a pocket passer. They didn't run spread offenses. They ran from a pro-style offense.

    Elway was a pocket passer in the NFL his entire career. To say he wasn't or to compare his style to Tebow in ANY way whatsover is laughable.
    I'm not saying that Elway couldn't or didn't throw from the pocket. Vick and Steve Young could stand in the pocket and throw as well, yet they weren't considered "pocket passers" in their early careers. The main difference between them and Elway is that when they didn't see anyone open, and they felt some pressure, they would pretty much take off down field.

    Elway did both. IF there was open field, he would take off. If there wasn't, he would scramble around and try to buy time and make a play. It drove Reeves crazy.



    Elway's problem early on was that he had a terrible offensive line and he had mediocre talent around him at the skill positions. THIS is what led Elway to scramble and not stay in the pocket. He was running for his life. When guys like Gary Zimmerman came along, the OL started to become more stable and allowed Elway to stay in the pocket longer. Yes he "moved around" more than Reeves wanted him too, but that's a FAR CRY from what Tebow is doing.

    To argue that Reeves wanted Elway to stay in the pocket doesn't translate into Elway not being a pocket passer. You are taking that quote from Elway and the "rift" between Elway and Reeves and turning it into something it's not.
    Look, Elway himself said that he HAD TO LEARN that you win championships from the pocket. Why would he have to LEARN that if he was a "pocket passer" ? He had to learn to stay in the pocket and throw the ball.

    You are right about one thing here, and that is the difference in degree. Tebow does take off downfield more than Elway did. He scrambles more than Elway did. Not going to deny that at all.

    BTW, back at that time, "scrambling" QBs were differentiated just like "running QBs" are now. I don't know of many people who would consider Fran Tarkington to have been a "pocket passer" even though he did in fact throw most of his passes from the pocket.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Blahblahblahblah.

    _
    Blah, blah, blah. You made a stupid statement. It happens. Just man up, say "probably should have just said that some of his teammates didn't like him" and go on.

    But no, you have to double, triple and quadruple down on something that is soooo obviously wrong.

  18. #378
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    Just a Bleacher Report, just one guys opinion, but it expresses my views on Elway view of Tebow spot on.

    But you were there, you were in the huddle and in the front office and talking to Elway, so you know better.

    Btw, one of my co-workers for 9 years HATED Tebow and the whole circus--was ecstatic that they dumped him. But hey, what would he know, he's been a Denver fan since he was 7, his family has had season tickets for 25 years and he regularly flies to 4-5 games out there every year. Even HE admitted Tebowmania was getting to a lot of the players--and this is a BRONCO fan--not a Tebow teabagger. I think I'd take his opionion over yours any day.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ues-post-trade

    Tim Tebow: His Icy Relationship with John Elway Continues After Trade to Jets By Ross Bentley(Featured Columnist) on March 23, 2012
    So Tim Tebow is a New York Jet, and his two tumultuous seasons with the Denver Broncos are finally over. In all the shuffle that has come about this week in Denver, Peyton Manning is in, Tim Tebow out, and it is all thanks to one man: Denver's most heralded son, John Elway.

    Since he took over as the executive vice president of football operations, one thing about Elway was very clear: He was no fan of Tim Tebow.

    Tebow's lack of quarterbacking skills are well-documented. He is inaccurate, has terrible mechanics and often cannot read coverage. But he was winning games. Tebow took over as the starter last year when Denver had a 1-4 record; with Tebow at the helm the Broncos went 7-4 in the regular season and won the AFC West. They followed that up with a stunning home playoff victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers in the AFC Wild Card Round.

    But even when Tebow was leading all of those fourth-quarter comebacks, Elway still disapproved. Elway was reluctant to say that Tebow would be the long-term starter; you could see he was extremely uncomfortable with the success Tebow was having. At times it even felt like Elway wanted Tebow to fail, so he had a reasonable excuse to replace him in the offseason.

    Through it all Tebow ignored it and continued to do what he could to lead the Denver Broncos toward a Super Bowl.

    But when Denver fell to the New England Patriots in the AFC Divisional Round, it was clear Elway still wanted to replace Tebow if at all possible. With all the popularity Tebow had and the wins he had stacked up, that was going to be very difficult to do.

    Elway even went as far as to say he hoped Tebow would be the Broncos quarterback for a "long, long time" in February (per ESPN), but even the most clueless of observers knew that was a lie.

    There were few free-agent quarterbacks Elway could replace Tebow with and not completely lose the fanbase. Peyton Manning was one of them. When Manning decided to sign with the Broncos, it was clear that Tebow's time as a Bronco was over, and Elway got his wish.

    So now Tebow is a Jet, but just how he ended up in New York is still highly up in the air.

    The Broncos and Jets originally announced the trade that would send Tebow to the Jets for a fourth- and sixth-round pick. However, just hours later there was an apparent delay in the trade when the two squads disagreed about just how much of Tebow's contract the Jets would pick up, which allowed other teams to get back in the mix, specifically the Jacksonville Jaguars.

    For a solid hour, it was completely unclear whether Tebow was going to be a Jet or a Jaguar next season. It was reported by ESPN's Adam Schefter that Tebow had his choice of which of the two teams he wanted to go to. By the time the dust had settled, the Jets and Broncos completed the trade despite Jacksonville reportedly offering a fourth-round pick and the willingness to pay more of Tebow's contract then New York ended up agreeing to.

    The question that has to be asked is what happened? Did Tebow really pick to be the Jets backup over heading back to his home state and playing for the Jags? If you ask John Elway, the answer is yes...well, sorta.

    When asked if Tebow was given a choice in the trade during an interview with ESPN Radio in Denver, Elway said the following (via The Denver Post), "We did. There was more (offered) from Jacksonville, but we looked at it and it was close enough and we were in contact with Tim throughout the day and talked to him. He knew what was going on the whole time, so the reports that he was not involved are not accurate."

    So Tebow really did pick the Jets, according to Elway. Interestingly enough Tebow himself must have forgot about being contacted about which team he would have preferred because when he was asked if he had a choice Tebow was quoted as saying, via The Denver Post, "Ultimately, I really didn't have any because the Broncos had all that power."

    Based on that, there is really no way around it: somebody is lying.

    What benefit would Tebow have to throw the Broncos under the bus if he really did choose the Jets? If Tebow really wanted to play in New York, he would have come out and said, "Yes, this was my choice" and stated his reasons for doing so. But why would he choose the Jets?

    Say whatever you want about Mark Sanchez; he still is more of an established and experienced starter then Blaine Gabbert in Jacksonville, and Tebow knew that, by going there, he would have a chance to become the starter. Plus he would be able to go back to Florida, play in front of his home crowd and ignite a fire in the organization that has been lacking for years.

    It just doesn't makes sense. So why would Elway claim Tebow had a choice if he really didn't?

    Elway clearly hasn't liked Tebow from the start and maybe this was just one last send-off or maybe he is just dangerously uninformed. Whatever the reason, it looks sloppy. I don't think Elway hates Tebow, or vice versa. But it was clear from the start John Elway wanted Tim Tebow as far away from Denver as possible and, thanks to Peyton Manning, he got exactly what he wanted.
    _

  19. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhyan66 View Post
    Ok boys... Lets get back to talking about actual football please.
    QFT

  20. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demosthenes9 View Post
    Blah, blah, blah. You made a stupid statement. It happens. Just man up, say "probably should have just said that some of his teammates didn't like him" and go on.

    But no, you have to double, triple and quadruple down on something that is soooo obviously wrong.
    You have made some of the stupidest statements in the history of JI in this thread.

    Tebow is like a young Elway or Young?

    Tebow would have created a rift in the lockeroom--with Peyton Manning?

    Elway didn't like Tebow because of how Dan Reeves treated him?

    YOU should just man up and go away. It's all opinion and your man-love for the guy ain't changing why Elway dumped his ass.

    _

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