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Thread: Tebow under center.

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    His feet left the ground pat. Doesn't matter where he hit him.
    Yes it does, there is no rule saying a defender has to have a foot on the ground when making a tackle. If a receiver is in the act of making a catch, the defender can not launch himself at the receiver. The rule only applies when in the act of catching the ball. What you said would infer that a tackler can never even dive at a runner. In this case the player is no longer considered a reciever but a runner.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by McGinley View Post
    I'm not a Sanchez fan. Maybe you'll get that at some point.

    Silly Tebowites can't manage to use things like common sense and logic. Oh well.
    The Sanchezites are just as delusional the guy can't complete 50% of his passes even though he supposed to be a passing QB. Neither of them can throw accurately but at least Tebow can run and lead. He not someone who has to be babied like the Sanchize.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunnie View Post
    I don't think any intelligent football fan would say either is even a 'good' QB ....

    Tebow

    He is a leader
    He can keep plays alive by running when the OL breaks down
    He has a strong, albeit inaccurate arm and throws downfield
    Physically imposing to other teams
    Plays well in 4th quarter
    His Mechanics are improving

    Sanchez

    Plays well under Pressure in big games
    He CAN be a leader, but reverts into sulking body language when down.
    Has MUCH better Mechanics than Tebow
    NEVER throws downfield ... Captain Checkdown
    Limited Escapability. ... Throws very well on the run ... Sometimes better than in the pocket.
    Not very accurate
    Not improving ... So far ... From our limited sample set this year

    These guy are both 2nd tier QBs .... Which is why I say ... Whoever moves the chains better .... Regardless of method .... Should be the QB ....

    Am I crazy ?
    Great post.

    Sanchez fans will get their panties in a not over it but you couldn't be anymore on the money. The bold in particular could not have been said any better.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whichfan View Post


    See the 2.25% in the INT column? I know its hard to accept, since Tebow isn't supposed to be at the top in any type of QB category, but facts are facts.
    LMAO

    Jake Locker is 1st so I guess he's an MVP candidate next season right?

    And I love how you just leave out the little detail that Tebow had way less attempts than Mark or any other full time starter in the NFL

    Cut it out please

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by carlito1171 View Post
    LMAO

    Jake Locker is 1st so I guess he's an MVP candidate next season right?

    And I love how you just leave out the little detail that Tebow had way less attempts than Mark or any other full time starter in the NFL

    Cut it out please
    I didn't leave it out it's the first column on the left. And Jake locker had 66 attempts. But he did play last year so he was on there.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whichfan View Post
    I didn't leave it out it's the first column on the left. And Jake locker had 66 attempts. But he did play last year so he was on there.
    point being is that the chart you posted really doesn't mean much....if you give Tebow the same amount of attempts as Sanchez, Brady, Big Ben, Flacco, etc in a "traditional" NFL offense his INTS would skyrocket....Tebow's number of attempts makes the stat misleading....

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by carlito1171 View Post
    Jake Locker is 1st so I guess he's an MVP candidate next season right?

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whichfan View Post
    That's why there are percentages. Not totals. Total attempts doesn't matter as long as its a large enough number.

    If you're going to use that as an argument then Sanchez has 1500 and Brady has 7900 and few quarterbacks will ever be near each other. Go back and look at Brady's first 1000 and his percentage isn't that far off from his career total.

    And my point was Tebow doesn't have an interception problem. He may have a lot of other issues but that's not one of them considering he's averaging in the top 5% in the NFL.

    It's ridiculous to see so many people pick that play apart because it's the only thing they can really pick apart from his first game.
    Let's try this again with small words.

    If an NFL QB looks ONLY at his PRIMARY receiver and if that receiver is covered, and said QB takes off on the run, then he should NEVER throw an INT.

    If Rogers or Brady or Brees ONLY looked at their primary receiver and if said receiver was covered, and they pulled the ball down and dove forward for a yard THEY WOULD LITERALLY NEVER THROW AN INTERCEPTION. If Sanchez ONLY looked at his primary receiver--HE would have only thrown 6 INTs. But he also wouldn't have thrown 26 TDs.

    The fact that Tebow still throws interceptions--even 6--is awful.

    He's not looking at 2nd and 3rd and 4th options when the field is swimming with defenders--not seeing defenders cutting over from different zones or leaving their man to double another reciever--that cluttered mess that leads to INTs--he is either MISSING his first option at an astronomical rate or he is taking off as almost option 1A.

    Your "percentage" argument is full of pfail.

    In other words, you don't know what the f*ck you are talking about.

    _



    _

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Let's try this again with small words.

    If an NFL QB looks ONLY at his PRIMARY receiver and if that receiver is covered, and said QB takes off on the run, then he should NEVER throw an INT.

    If Rogers or Brady or Brees ONLY looked at their primary receiver and if said receiver was covered, and they pulled the ball down and dove forward for a yard THEY WOULD LITERALLY NEVER THROW AN INTERCEPTION. If Sanchez ONLY looked at his primary receiver--HE would have only thrown 6 INTs. But he also wouldn't have thrown 26 TDs.

    The fact that Tebow still throws interceptions--even 6--is awful.

    He's not looking at 2nd and 3rd and 4th options when the field is swimming with defenders--not seeing defenders cutting over from different zones or leaving their man to double another reciever--that cluttered mess that leads to INTs--he is either MISSING his first option at an astronomical rate or he is taking off as almost option 1A.

    Your "percentage" argument is full of pfail.

    In other words, you don't know what the f*ck you are talking about.

    _



    _
    Yes, Tebow can't scan the field. That's why he always extends plays and scrambles around until he finds an open target. You sound like you really know what you're talking about.

    And considering Sanchez doesn't throw any deep balls his completion % should be in the 65-70's. Under 65 would be bad for somebody who is basically just asked to complete short passes. But 55 is just flat out awful. And that's all Sanchez brings to the table. That dink & dunk offense. And he can't even do that at a somewhat decent level.

    At least with Tebow you get the occasional bomb, the scrambling around and so on. With Sanchez you either get an incompletion, interception or a sack if he can't complete his many 3-4 yard throws.

  10. #90
    Has using Tebow in a split back formation been brought up at all? I don't even know if he could handle all the rolls but, Pass Protection for Sanchez, Block for Greene, Wildcat, Put in motion into TE. There's just so many options without Sanchez ever leaving the field.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    "modern" offenses do not place the qb in the shotgun unless it is a pass, very seldom do you run out of the shotgun. Teams are passing more hence more shotgun use. However the basic pro set when they are 2 wr, 1 te, and 1 rb is still under center even on the Pats.

    By a traditional offense I would think Fox meant one that passes slightly more than runs,

    You run the shotgun to give the qb more time to read the defense nothing to do with footwork, it makes setting a pocket easier on the center as he does not need to worry about being pushed back at the snap.

    No body is going to do anything different than what they did late last year against Tebow.

    He will be defended just as Vick, Randall Cunnigham, Grogan, Bobby Douglas or any other running qb in the league. But with a heavier emphasis against the run to reflect his skill level at the nfl passing game.

    Why is the option or wildcat hard to stop? It is no longer a surprise. Teams stopped Tebow at the end of last year. Why do you think Rex called it a gimmick that whose time had passed, why do you think other teams quit running it.

    Last year in Camp and the first year in camp in Denver he worked under center. During the season he was not under center because the ran the option.

    You put a lot of thought in this post, but your basic premise is wrong IMO.

    Then I guess you need to tell that to Carolina Panthers, Patriots, Green Bay, etc. And by traditional Fox meant "under center".

    Fox's idea of a traditional offense is exactly what the Jets have been running with Mark up until this past year. But even less passing.

    The spread option being hard to stop has little to do with it being a surprise. The Wildcat is easier to stop because the term "Wildcat" implies you have a running back who isn't much of a passing threat back there taking a direct snap. He may pass sometimes, but he doesn't understand much about dissecting defenses and playing the game as a quarterback would. Most often he will just run. The spread option, which is what Tebow runs, is its entire offense, and considering it's ruling college football and has been for years, while more recently moving up into the NFL, it's thriving. It's hard to stop because it gives you a 1 man advantage in man to man coverage over a traditional offense. Surprise or not, you still have to dedicate a defensive player to cover the rushing threat of a QB.

    You kind of answered your own question. Team's usually pass out of the shotgun, because the shotgun is inherently designed as a passing play. So when you line up in it, and you also throw a rusher at a defense....you get the idea.

    PS: Sparano's Wildcat was actually copied from John Fox in Carolina, when he ran it with our running back Deangelo Williams back in 2006. It's basically the equivalent of the Special Olympics compared to the spread option or read option that Tebow can run.
    Last edited by Whichfan; 08-14-2012 at 10:05 AM.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by RI Jets View Post
    The Sanchezites are just as delusional the guy can't complete 50% of his passes even though he supposed to be a passing QB. Neither of them can throw accurately but at least Tebow can run and lead. He not someone who has to be babied like the Sanchize.
    First of all QBs in the NFL are passing QBs. It's Tebow that can't complete 50%, and he's just not a QB yet. He's working on it. Oh and Rhode Island isn't even an island.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunnie View Post
    I don't think any intelligent football fan would say either is even a 'good' QB ....

    Tebow

    He is a leader
    He can keep plays alive by running when the OL breaks down
    He has a strong, albeit inaccurate arm and throws downfield
    Physically imposing to other teams
    Plays well in 4th quarter
    His Mechanics are improving

    Sanchez

    Plays well under Pressure in big games
    He CAN be a leader, but reverts into sulking body language when down.
    Has MUCH better Mechanics than Tebow
    NEVER throws downfield ... Captain Checkdown
    Limited Escapability. ... Throws very well on the run ... Sometimes better than in the pocket.
    Not very accurate
    Not improving ... So far ... From our limited sample set this year

    These guy are both 2nd tier QBs .... Which is why I say ... Whoever moves the chains better .... Regardless of method .... Should be the QB ....

    Am I crazy ?
    Yes, when you make up stupid stuff.

    When you say he "playes well in the 4th quarter", you pfail to mention he plays like SH*T in the first three quarters. Also, played like SH*T in the 4th quarter of the last 3 regular season games last year when defenses figured him out.

    His mechanics are NOT improving. Not sure where this is coming from, but he's the same guy he was in college and at the Broncos when everyone said he needs to completely change his mechanics. Elway saw this and would have dumped him for a garbage can filled with used tampons, couldn't believe someone gave him a 4th.

    So you are giving Tebow credit for something that (i) isn't true and (ii) is the MOST important thing for him to be even a mediocre NFL QB,

    Mark Sanchez threw downfield perfectly fine in 2009 and 2010--you should have seen him play back then had you been a Jet fan. There are a whole bunch of youtube videos from those seasons with beatiful long downfield throws to Braylon and Holmes and Kellers and Cotch--you should go and watch them. Most Jet fans will back me up on this. In 2011 he COULDN'T throw down field--go look at the youtube video of the very FIRST play from scrimmage last year and you'll see what I mean.

    His escapability is actually pretty good--when he's not getting drilled in 1.5 seconds. Go look at the youtube video of the very FIRST play from scrimmage last year and you'll see what I mean.

    He did score 6 rusing TDs, the guy is athletic and can move--clearly not like Tebow--have to hand that one to TT.

    He has improved EVERY year--marginally, but he has--but THIS year all we've heard is platitudes about how much better he is than years past--bigger, stronger, better zip on his ball, better leader, more serious and mature--what the f*ck are you talking about "hasn't improved"? From all accounts Tebow is throwing WORSE than he's thrown in the past--you neglect to mention that yet pull something out of your ass that Sanchez isn't improving?

    And you're using that to prove a point?

    That's called sophistry.

    You, Sir, are a sophist. Not the good intelligent kind, the bullsh*tty kind.

    _

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    Yes, Tebow can't scan the field. That's why he always extends plays and scrambles around until he finds an open target. You sound like you really know what you're talking about.

    And considering Sanchez doesn't throw any deep balls his completion % should be in the 65-70's. Under 65 would be bad for somebody who is basically just asked to complete short passes. But 55 is just flat out awful. And that's all Sanchez brings to the table. That dink & dunk offense. And he can't even do that at a somewhat decent level.

    At least with Tebow you get the occasional bomb, the scrambling around and so on. With Sanchez you either get an incompletion, interception or a sack if he can't complete his many 3-4 yard throws.
    Hey TeBallsawk, he doens't scan the field--if his first receiver is covered he pulls it down and runs.

    You really need to watch tape of your new savior. Or read up on what folks in Denver thought of him.

    You think Sanchez struggles in reading defenses?

    Tebow couldn't read a defense if it was written in crayon.

    _

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whichfan View Post
    Then I guess you need to tell that to Carolina Panthers, Patriots, Green Bay, etc. And by traditional Fox meant "under center".

    Fox's idea of a traditional offense is exactly what the Jets have been running with Mark up until this past year. But even less passing.

    The spread option being hard to stop has little to do with it being a surprise. The Wildcat is easier to stop because the term "Wildcat" implies you have a running back who isn't much of a passing threat back there taking a direct snap. He may pass sometimes, but he doesn't understand much about dissecting defenses and playing the game as a quarterback would. Most often he will just run. The spread option, which is what Tebow runs, is its entire offense, and considering it's ruling college football and has been for years, while more recently moving up into the NFL, it's thriving. It's hard to stop because it gives you a 1 man advantage in man to man coverage over a traditional offense. Surprise or not, you still have to dedicate a defensive player to cover the rushing threat of a QB.

    You kind of answered your own question. Team's usually pass out of the shotgun, because the shotgun is inherently designed as a passing play. So when you line up in it, and you also throw a rusher at a defense....you get the idea.
    You're confusing me again with these technical terms. Explain to me again what a "shotgun" is, and is it similar to the "pistol"? Do you still need to hit your target in this offense, or can you just throw the ball in the dirt?

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    You're confusing me again with these technical terms. Explain to me again what a "shotgun" is, and is it similar to the "pistol"? Do you still need to hit your target in this offense, or can you just throw the ball in the dirt?
    You throw the ball in the dirt when you throw it away so idiots think you can't accurately make a 5 yard pass. Then you get to surprise everyone the next week. You complete pin point accurate 30-40 yard passes and you sit back and watch the show of a bunch of people logically try to explain how a guy who can't pass is making pin point accurate passes.

  17. #97
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    These posts are due a bump:

    Quote Originally Posted by escamoter2 View Post
    I always love how Tebow only looks at one guy the whole time. Usually, if he can't find that guy, he just runs for his life. The Broncos basically said he was an idiot when it comes to football IQ.
    Quote Originally Posted by escamoter2 View Post

    Quote

    Former coach says throw away idea Tebow can pass
    Jets Blog
    By PAUL SCHWARTZ
    Last Updated: 8:46 AM, March 23, 2012
    Posted: 2:35 AM, March 23, 2012


    More Print

    There is nothing about the way Tim Tebow throws the football that suggests he will ever be more than a novelty act in the NFL, a career understudy, unless he dramatically alters his mechanics.
    So says a John Elway-confidant who has spoken with the Hall of Fame quarterback about Tebow’s time with the Broncos.
    “I think there’s things you can fix,’’ said the source, who did not want his name attached to any Tebow-bashing.
    UPDATES FROM OUR JETS BLOG
    WHY DID TEBOW PICK THE JETS?
    Elway, the Broncos executive vice president of football operations, instigated the signing of Peyton Manning, a move that instantly ushered in the end of Tebow’s short-lived Rocky Mountain high. Elway threw the bait in the water and the Jets were hooked, giving up two draft picks and $2.5 million to acquire Tebow and all the hysteria that comes with him, saying they will make him the backup to Mark Sanchez.
    Unless the requirements for the No. 2 quarterback include virtually no passing the Jets might be in trouble.
    “I’ve talked to John Elway several times about him, I told him you got all these guys working with him but trust me, they’re on the wrong path,’’ the source, a former NFL coach, told The Post. “His biggest problem is he carries the ball too high, when he carries the ball high on the back shoulder he has a long release, which means when he cocks the ball and throws it that ball is moving a lot, which is not going to help his accuracy, it’s going to hurt it. Nobody’s corrected that in him.
    “And he’s got a loose wrist, when he comes back with his wrist the ball is moving all over the place. You watch that ball, the nose is forward and then it’s sideways and then it’s up and it’s down, you can’t throw the ball that way. It’s correctable.’’
    The awkward throwing motion is not the only issue with Tebow, who starred in college at Florida using his formidable athletic gifts and the superior talents of those around him.
    “The guy is not the sharpest tool in the shed,’’ the source said. “He’s a great leader, 10 out of 10 as a leader, energy, work ethic, everything you want in a quarterback but he doesn’t see the field.
    “It’s hard for him to go back and think a progression through: If this is the coverage go to this guy, if this is the coverage go to that guy. He doesn’t do that very well. That’s the difference with college football and pro football. It’s so much more sophisticated and he’s limited that way.’’
    Used strictly for a handful of plays in the Wildcat offense, Tebow can excel — as long as the package of plays remains small and limited in scope.
    “If you practice them all the time you can get good at ’em,’’ the source said. “Where you get the upper hand is the defense has played eight games and they haven’t seen the Wildcat yet. They’ve got to use a number of plays on their practice schedule that week to the Wildcat and they may see a lot of it and they may not see it at all. But this isn’t some offense that can’t be stopped.’’
    paul.schwartz@nypost.com


    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/jets/...#ixzz23TB8Hho8


  18. #98
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    why all the fuss over a personal protector on punts?

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whichfan View Post
    You throw the ball in the dirt when you throw it away so idiots think you can't accurately make a 5 yard pass. Then you get to surprise everyone the next week. You complete pin point accurate 30-40 yard passes and you sit back and watch the show of a bunch of people logically try to explain how a guy who can't pass is making pin point accurate passes.
    WHAT?

    So all those throws into the dirt in front of wide open receivers are "throw-aways"?

    And you're just doing that to "surprise" people the following week?

    Are you f*cking joking?

    You make the real Tebow-teabaggers look smart.


    _

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Hey TeBallsawk, he doens't scan the field--if his first receiver is covered he pulls it down and runs.

    You really need to watch tape of your new savior. Or read up on what folks in Denver thought of him.

    You think Sanchez struggles in reading defenses?

    Tebow couldn't read a defense if it was written in crayon
    .

    _
    Exactly. Two turds on the same team

    They both suck, and fwiw, i dont think it is a good "point" to say Tebow locks on to 1 reciever. This has been Sanchez problem since day one. Let me guess, he has improved, and worked on eye movement at jetsWest.

    LOL

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