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Thread: Offense Idea: Wildcat 2.0

  1. #1
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    Offense Idea: Wildcat 2.0

    Here was a thought that I had about a possible offense that minimizes some of our weaknesses. We are weak at WR and RB. So here is a lineup I would suggest: 5 OL, 2 TE/1WR (Keller/Cumberland/Holmes), then at RB we have Greene and Tebow.

    Shotgun. Greene and Tebow flank Sanchez on each side. Sanchez hands to Tebow on a sweep action with Greene leading. Now you can have a college option play, a straight sweep with Tebow, or a pass (I think that since we don't have great blocking TE, we could to try to mimic the New England strategy of using both TE as difficult matchups in the passing game). You could even have Sanchez sneak out the back side and possibly become a receiver once every few weeks.

    If teams stack the box you would need to be able to win a one-on-one with the WR or have the TE get open. I think Holmes can do that. Alternatively, put Hill out there and try to get the ball down the field.

    It was just a thought I had, but it was different because it has Sanchez AND Tebow on the field, using both of their strengths SIMULTANEOUSLY, rather than alternatively. In any case, I'm sure the Jets do have something different planned than standard Wildcat fare. It'll be interesting to see just what that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DBarrett=all<3 View Post
    ...because it has Sanchez AND Tebow on the field, using both of their strengths SIMULTANEOUSLY...
    Bingo.

    Would not be surprised in the least if the majority of times Tebow is used it's when him and Sanchez are on the field at the same time...and not with some dumb formation where Sanchez is lined up as a receiver.


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    I think the hybrid ideas are very important.

    Personally Id like to see us with the following group:, Hill, Holmes, Keller, Tebow, Greene and Sanchez.

    We can run a traditional “wildcat” with sanchez out at WR.

    Or we can put Tebow in the slot. If a LB steps out to cover him, we can hopefully get an advantage running the ball. If a safety were to come down on him, we can attack wherever the ensuing single coverage is….on Holmes, Hill or Keller and keep Greene in as extra pass protection.

    At the very least, we can get a good idea of defensive responsibilities and try to attack the most advantageous matchups.

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    I would replace Greene with McKnight....he's the only home-run hitter we have......

    And depending on Hill's development during the season, I would replace Holmes for him....

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post

    We can run a traditional “wildcat” with sanchez out at WR.
    What makes Tebow difficult to defend is he's an 11th player to defend where traditional QB's you really defending 10 players on offense

    I like the OP idea. Sanchez at WR is just dumb.

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    In order for it to be considered a "Wildcat" in the traditional sense, you really need a running back who can throw back there and not a QB.

    But the advantage of the spread option is 11 on 11 football. Mark handing it off to Tebow isn't that and destroys that advantage unless you let Mark ride and decide.

    Handing it off to Tebow, THEN, having Tebow play spread option QB just slows down the action. It's more of a trick play. Something you would use every once in awhile. Good idea for a trick play, but not a standard offense. It will get blown up in one possession.

    I say how about they continue testing both Tebow and Sanchez in a generic traditional NFL offense in the pre-season, and if Tebow shows he can provide similar passing ability as Sanchez, then give him the job which he would have earned fair and square since he also provides the superior rushing threat. Then get behind him 100% and just let him run the spread option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whichfan View Post
    In order for it to be considered a "Wildcat" in the traditional sense, you really need a running back who can throw back there and not a QB.

    But the advantage of the spread option is 11 on 11 football. Mark handing it off to Tebow isn't that and destroys that advantage unless you let Mark ride and decide.

    Handing it off to Tebow, THEN, having Tebow play spread option QB just slows down the action. It's more of a trick play. Something you would use every once in awhile. Good idea for a trick play, but not a standard offense. It will get blown up in one possession.

    I say how about they continue testing both Tebow and Sanchez in a generic traditional NFL offense in the pre-season, and if Tebow shows he can provide similar passing ability as Sanchez, then give him the job which he would have earned fair and square since he also provides the superior rushing threat. Then get behind him 100% and just let him run the spread option.
    wouldn't you just love that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shuler82 View Post
    wouldn't you just love that?
    Of course I would. I wanna see someone design an offense from the ground up around Tebow, get behind him, then see what he can do.

    And while I might like Tebow, I think that's the best way to go no matter who you go with. Sanchez OR Tebow. I am very skeptical towards this dual QB idea. If they can somehow pull this off, then they will have turned football into baseball, and next year every team is going to want to have a "relief" QB or "closer".

    We'll see....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whichfan View Post
    Of course I would. I wanna see someone design an offense from the ground up around Tebow, get behind him, then see what he can do.

    And while I might like Tebow, I think that's the best way to go no matter who you go with. Sanchez OR Tebow. I am very skeptical towards this dual QB idea. If they can somehow pull this off, then they will have turned football into baseball, and next year every team is going to want to have a "relief" QB or "closer".

    We'll see....
    There's no 'duel' QB idea... except for maybe inside your brain.. you know, the same brain that has you "getting behind" Tebow in every city he comes to play for..

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    Quote Originally Posted by shuler82 View Post
    There's no 'duel' QB idea... except for maybe inside your brain.. you know, the same brain that has you "getting behind" Tebow in every city he comes to play for..
    What do you call substituting Sanchez out to have Tebow punch it in the rezone? Who else does that?

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    Won't be surprised if they run 25% of the offense with both QBs.

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    The is a bad idea. The only real advantage a "Wildcat" offense gives you is that you gain an extra blocker. By having Sanchez on the field you negate the biggest advantage this formation gives us.

    By the way, the Jets aren't going to run a true "Wildcat" offense as it was designed by the Dolphins in 2008. At least I hope to god it isn't that one. Because, while it effectively beat the Patriots early in the year, it didn't work nearly as well the 2nd time around with was a Dolphin loss. And by 2009 most defenses had caught up with it and its effectiveness dwindled to almost nothing. It became just the gimmick formation a that few teams use on the GL and in short yardage,to very mixed success.

    The best offense to utilize Tebow's skill set is more like the Florida spread option. It was a modified spread option that the Broncos used last season, not the Miami Wildcat. The Panthers use some of the aspects of the spread option in their package for Cam Newton.

    If he could pass it would be a valid full time offence for a team with Tebow at the helm. But right now he can't, so for the Jets (at least this season) it will remain a gimmick offense that may or may not have some value in short yardage and/or inside the 10.

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    it's going to be a creative offense. a handful or more per game but enough to keep the defense off balance. Now, we just need to execute when the "tebow package" plays are called

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    Quote Originally Posted by HardKnocks View Post
    The is a bad idea. The only real advantage a "Wildcat" offense gives you is that you gain an extra blocker. By having Sanchez on the field you negate the biggest advantage this formation gives us.

    By the way, the Jets aren't going to run a true "Wildcat" offense as it was designed by the Dolphins in 2008. At least I hope to god it isn't that one. Because, while it effectively beat the Patriots early in the year, it didn't work nearly as well the 2nd time around with was a Dolphin loss. And by 2009 most defenses had caught up with it and its effectiveness dwindled to almost nothing. It became just the gimmick formation a that few teams use on the GL and in short yardage,to very mixed success.

    The best offense to utilize Tebow's skill set is more like the Florida spread option. It was a modified spread option that the Broncos used last season, not the Miami Wildcat. The Panthers use some of the aspects of the spread option in their package for Cam Newton.

    If he could pass it would be a valid full time offence for a team with Tebow at the helm. But right now he can't, so for the Jets (at least this season) it will remain a gimmick offense that may or may not have some value in short yardage and/or inside the 10.

    I second that. It's driving me nuts every time I hear that phrase. I blame it on Sparano since he's the one that used it first when it came to Tebow, but he sounded like an old school idiot considering the fact Tebow can run the entire spread option, not just a few plays. It's like taking a starting receiver, and using him only to block.

    However, I believe it to be a smoke screen because using the term spread option...would cause too much controversy, since its an entire offensive philosophy, and most teams use it as a base offense. Wildcat implies a few plays as part of a traditional NFL offense. I think that's why he's been adamant on using that term. Just so people don't get the idea that the Jets are designing a spread option offense around Tebow in the off season.

    The Panthers are running a spread option based off of Air Coryel. Rather than shotgun, they use the pistol formation, which all it means is Cam's lined up 4 yards behind center rather than 7, which is the traditional shotgun. They are all just different variations of the spread option though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whichfan View Post
    I second that. It's driving me nuts every time I hear that phrase. I blame it on Sparano since he's the one that used it first when it came to Tebow, but he sounded like an old school idiot considering the fact Tebow can run the entire spread option, not just a few plays. It's like taking a starting receiver, and using him only to block
    . On this we agree.

    However, I believe it to be a smoke screen because using the term spread option...would cause too much controversy, since its an entire offensive philosophy, and most teams use it as a base offense. Wildcat implies a few plays as part of a traditional NFL offense. I think that's why he's been adamant on using that term. Just so people don't get the idea that the Jets are designing a spread option offense around Tebow in the off season.
    You must think most NFL coaches are idiots. No one is going to be looking for Tebow to run anything but what they saw him do last season. Sparano has nothing to gain by hiding this fact.

    Here's the main problem I see with Tebow from the beginning. The idea of splitting offenses and trying to run both a standard offense, and a "Wildcat one" is that you end up doing neither well.

    Yes its true that team will have to devote time to defending the "Wildcat", but it also means the Jets have less time to working on their own standard offense. It cuts both ways.

    My biggest fear is that the Jets end up with 2 offenses that don't really serve either QB, and both are less effective than they could be if we simply picked one and went with it.

    Creating a consistently effective offense is difficult to begin with. You only have to look at the first game success (or lack thereof) of the Pats, Saints, and Packers. It takes a lot of time and hard work to get an offense in sync to the point where it becomes machine like.... consistently.

    How can we expect our team to master 2 distinct offenses, when the best offenses in the league have trouble mastering just one.

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    Not a bad idea, but there's one major problem.

    Yet again, the Jets have no depth at TE. Nobody worth putting on the field as a 2nd TE.

    I've been saying this for like 3 years now. Stop trying to put some scrub TE out there who can't catch and is a marginal blocker. Just drop that and put another OT in there, someone who actually excels at run blocking.

    The coaches surely know much more about football than I do, and I'm sure there is a reason why they don't do what I'm suggesting... but I'd like to hear why because it seems like a pretty obvious solution to their personnel problem.

    Get the best players on the field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HardKnocks View Post
    . On this we agree.

    You must think most NFL coaches are idiots. No one is going to be looking for Tebow to run anything but what they saw him do last season. Sparano has nothing to gain by hiding this fact.

    Here's the main problem I see with Tebow from the beginning. The idea of splitting offenses and trying to run both a standard offense, and a "Wildcat one" is that you end up doing neither well.

    Yes its true that team will have to devote time to defending the "Wildcat", but it also means the Jets have less time to working on their own standard offense. It cuts both ways.

    My biggest fear is that the Jets end up with 2 offenses that don't really serve either QB, and both are less effective than they could be if we simply picked one and went with it.

    Creating a consistently effective offense is difficult to begin with. You only have to look at the first game success (or lack thereof) of the Pats, Saints, and Packers. It takes a lot of time and hard work to get an offense in sync to the point where it becomes machine like.... consistently.

    How can we expect our team to master 2 distinct offenses, when the best offenses in the league have trouble mastering just one.
    I agree with some of your concerns but not with the idea that it takes away.

    If Mark is indeed supposed to be the immovable starter, there is no problem with designing a traditional drop-back offense for Mark. The only difference is that a few plays that go to Tebow and the Wildcat. But teams do this all the time anyway, they just let the same guy do both and they are usually running shotgun. There isn't a single traditional NFL offense today that doesn't include some form of shotgun or spread option elements, so this really doesn't do anything other than simplifying Mark's responsibility.

    No team suffers from having shotgun plays as part of their traditional offense unless the quarterback is a total idiot who can't do it. If Tebow wasn't here, they would simply have more shotgun plays but have Mark run it. Either way they would still have to include them in there unless the Jets planed on winding the clock back 20 years.

    I don't think that's an issue at all. The issue is the fact they are swapping them in the first place. With Tebow as a full time stater it would be pretty much mandatory to make some sort of spread option, the base offense with him only running a few plays from under center. With Mark it's probably the exact opposite.

    Therein lies the problem. With taking an offense and making it so specialized it means neither one of your quarterbacks can run the full thing, and God forbid one gets hurt. You need a back-up for each or you will get stuck with a dumbed down, partial offense in week 4 of the regular season, having to add a whole bunch of plays one of your QB's didn't really practice.

    I think both Tebow and Sanchez can run the spread though, and I honestly expected the Jets to go into that direction, and make the spread the base offense.

    But it seems to me Sparano just doesn't have enough confidence and isn't willing to stick his neck out there and go full out. So he's just dabbing his feet in it.

    That's the part I dont like. What they are doing, requires both guys to stay healthy the entire season, low egos(which so far seemed to work) and a change in how the quarterback position is handled at the NFL level. I don't particularly like to support the old saying that just because "it's never been done" it can't work, but it can easily turn into a hack job offense if both guys are not on board.

    But I am with you in the last part. Traditional offenses and spread options, require different personnel. Size, speed, blockers and route running is quite different. So while you may specialize your QB's, the rest of your players may not all be best suited to play in both and do have to learn how to do both. That now becomes the problem. A running back that's used to running out of traditional I formations, is going to have some adjusting to do when running out of the spread.

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    Which, let me be more succinct. It hurts Sanchez when he and "his" offense loses 25% of his practice snaps to the Wildcat. It hurts Tebow when he has to run a spread option offense, which requires a lot of timing, on just 25% of the practice snaps. And it hurts the other 10 players on the team who have to learn 2 offenses.

    I'm at the point where I don't care which one they choose, but please for the love of god choose one and move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HardKnocks View Post
    Which, let me be more succinct. It hurts Sanchez when he and "his" offense loses 25% of his practice snaps to the Wildcat. It hurts Tebow when he has to run a spread option offense, which requires a lot of timing, on just 25% of the practice snaps. And it hurts the other 10 players on the team who have to learn 2 offenses.

    I'm at the point where I don't care which one they choose, but please for the love of god choose one and move on.
    It hurts him if he ends up having to run them at a later point, yes. I agree. But if they really plan on doing this with Tebow...then it simplifies Sanchez's responsibility. How is it going to hurt him, if he's never going to have to run those plays anyway?

    It may hurt his development as an overall NFL QB, but if the Jets are hell bent on this split responsibility, it should really only simplify Mark's responsibility. It should help him, within this offense.

    Again, I'm with you. I'd rather just see one and stick with it too but it's not impossible what they are trying to do either. I get it. If they are really serious about it and this whole thing isn't some sort of a smokes screen. It can work. But it also requires everything remains as planned, no one gets hurt, egos never get in the way, the team always respects both guys. That's just A LOT of ifs, and I will just believe it when I see it. Consistently. For 4-5 games in a row.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Not a bad idea, but there's one major problem.

    Yet again, the Jets have no depth at TE. Nobody worth putting on the field as a 2nd TE.

    I've been saying this for like 3 years now. Stop trying to put some scrub TE out there who can't catch and is a marginal blocker. Just drop that and put another OT in there, someone who actually excels at run blocking.

    The coaches surely know much more about football than I do, and I'm sure there is a reason why they don't do what I'm suggesting... but I'd like to hear why because it seems like a pretty obvious solution to their personnel problem.

    Get the best players on the field.
    The reason why they don't do that is because an extra OT creates no threat other than blocking, whereas a tight end such as Keller could stay in and pass block or go run a route. This means that the defense need to put a safety or a linebacker on him because of that threat. I believe that we need to get a TE who can catch and block fairly well. This creates a big problem for defenses

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