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Thread: Why not set tax brackets based on assets?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    You are late to the game... Doggin has seen the light.
    Sorry

    I was working, to save my money, so Doggin could tax it.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by chirorob View Post
    Sorry

    I was working, to save my money, so Doggin could tax it.
    lol


  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    I agree with the people part no question but I am in the camp that these benefits are bankrupting our cities, towns counties. Take a 35K secretary at the state level. Wife of a client.

    She worked 15 years and retired at 62. She gets 27K in retirement and full health for life.
    Which was part of her employment contract she had, she met the terms of, and EARNED.

    Now, we may not like it, and we may think it needs changed, but ANY comment that it is unearned or unwarranted for people who've already met their obligations of employment is horribly misguided.

    I fully agree that the game needs reviewed, revised and reformed. I do not agree in any form with in-hindsight removals or criticism of working people who did their jobs, earned their benefits, and now later generations feel they have some right to remove them after the fact.

    I doubt you'd like it if one of yoru clients had the power to "review" their contract with you years after the fact, proclaim your work substandard, and have the right to take back what they paid you. That is the equivalent of anger or attempts to take back things from already-retired beneficiaries.

    If the system is bad, revise it, and move forward. Looking and acting backwards is just that, backwards.

    If you look at NYC as an example...these "good people" seem to work a TON of overtime the 2 years before their retirement. Cuomo study. There is no fiduciary capacity at any level and the politicians cow tow to the public unions.
    The system. Employees will ALWAYS, in ANY SYSTEM, work it to their advantage as much as possible. Private or Public.

    There is NO company that can provide this and the system produces an environment that creates a onerous burden on those not working for government.
    Then change the system going forward.

    Why would anyone become a butcher, baker or candlestick maker when in 30 years they will still be working and the file clerk for the county is retired on full benefits being paid for by their neighbors.
    With respect, the butcher, baker and candlestick maker are all obsolete in the face of industrial corporate business that ran all the independant butchers, bakers and candle-stick makers out of business and into their employ. These positions are now non-skilled jobs that require minimum eduication.

    A file clerk for the county, which most likely requires a minimum 2-year college degree, should make more than them.
    Last edited by Warfish; 08-16-2012 at 10:31 AM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Which was part of her employment contract she had, she met the terms of, and EARNED.

    Now, we may not like it, and we may think it needs changed, but ANY comment that it is unearned or unwarranted for people who've already met their obligations of employment is horribly misguided.

    I fully agree that the game needs reviewed, revised and reformed. I do not agree in any form with in-hindsight removals or criticism of working people who did their jobs, earned their benefits, and now later generations feel they have some right to remove them after the fact.

    I doubt you'd like it if one of yoru clients had the power to "review" their contract with you years after the fact, proclaim your work substandard, and have the right to take back what they paid you. That is the equivalent of anger or attempts to take back things from already-retired beneficiaries.

    If the system is bad, revise it, and move forward. Looking and acting backwards is just that, backwards.



    The system. Employees will ALWAYS, in ANY SYSTEM, work it to their advantage as much as possible. Private or Public.



    Then change the system going forward.



    With respect, the butcher, baker and candlestick maker are all obsolete in the face of industrial corporate business that ran all the independant butchers, bakers and candle-stick makers out of business and into their employ. These positions are now non-skilled jobs that require minimum eduication.

    A file clerk for the county, which most likely requires a minimum 2-year college degree, should make more than them.
    I agree with everything you said... except the butcher scenario. The file clerk, in my example, needs only a high school diploma. But the system is a function of no accounability by our politiicoans. had she gotten a job with Allstate, Citibank, IBM etc...she would have retired with her 401K and that's it. YET, WE THE PEOPLE are paying for her for the next 25 years.

    That is the budget problem at the state and city level in a nutshell.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    I agree with everything you said... except the butcher scenario. The file clerk, in my example, needs only a high school diploma.
    And what does being a butcher require in these days of industrial animal production? Not even a high-school diploma, just on-the-job training.

    But the system is a function of no accounability by our politiicoans. had she gotten a job with Allstate, Citibank, IBM etc...she would have retired with her 401K and that's it. YET, WE THE PEOPLE are paying for her for the next 25 years.
    Which is the fault of politicians.

    The potential civil employee who sees a good opportunity, and takes it.....thats as American as anything is.

    You, the critics, keep pounding the employees, who like you, saw a niche, and opportunity, and filled it/took it.

    Thats where my disagreement with you lies. It is irrelevant what he would have got at allstate or Citibank. The job existed, the employee filled it.

    If you kept your criticism on the politicians, it would have a far stronger case IMO. By attacking and demeaning and insulting the employees, for doing the normal American thing of getting a good opportunity and taking it, your argument loses much of it's substance IMO.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    And what does being a butcher require in these days of industrial animal production? Not even a high-school diploma, just on-the-job training.



    Which is the fault of politicians.

    The potential civil employee who sees a good opportunity, and takes it.....thats as American as anything is.

    You, the critics, keep pounding the employees, who like you, saw a niche, and opportunity, and filled it/took it.

    Thats where my disagreement with you lies. It is irrelevant what he would have got at allstate or Citibank. The job existed, the employee filled it.

    If you kept your criticism on the politicians, it would have a far stronger case IMO. By attacking and demeaning and insulting the employees, for doing the normal American thing of getting a good opportunity and taking it, your argument loses much of it's substance IMO.
    Where have I said anything about the employee? It is the system? BUT to deny the abuse of these pensions, by well you know who, is well...denial. Just look at some of the studies.

    I simply believe that those who govern should not have significantly more than those they govern for similar work. the argument that we wouldn't get GOOD people to apply is rubbish. Most civil service jobs have thousands of applicants for one position. From Police to clerical. Thus , economics tells you, the pay and benefits are too high.

    BTW....I have continually supported the police, fire and many others here in Charlotte, as an example. They have a 30 year pension and we have no shoprtage of good candidates.
    I believe the same would be true in federal and city ranks.
    Last edited by southparkcpa; 08-16-2012 at 12:31 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    And what does being a butcher require in these days of industrial animal production? Not even a high-school diploma, just on-the-job training.



    Which is the fault of politicians.

    The potential civil employee who sees a good opportunity, and takes it.....thats as American as anything is.

    You, the critics, keep pounding the employees, who like you, saw a niche, and opportunity, and filled it/took it.

    Thats where my disagreement with you lies. It is irrelevant what he would have got at allstate or Citibank. The job existed, the employee filled it.

    If you kept your criticism on the politicians, it would have a far stronger case IMO. By attacking and demeaning and insulting the employees, for doing the normal American thing of getting a good opportunity and taking it, your argument loses much of it's substance IMO.

    Here's where I have you on a small point due to experience.
    Worked for a multi national conglomerate at a time. Observed various business ops. Butchers are actually fairly skilled - not the supermarket variety - packaged foods ones.
    Meat trimming is a skill. They are evaluated constantly. Plus there is a piece production quota. Many are paid by the piece and if it not done well - no pay. Ergo, many butchers are more skilled than say, plumbers.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    Here's where I have you on a small point due to experience.
    Worked for a multi national conglomerate at a time. Observed various business ops. Butchers are actually fairly skilled - not the supermarket variety - packaged foods ones.
    Meat trimming is a skill. They are evaluated constantly. Plus there is a piece production quota. Many are paid by the piece and if it not done well - no pay. Ergo, many butchers are more skilled than say, plumbers.
    Meat trimming in the current industrial/mass market environemnt can be done by an uneducated person (no schooling of any kind), after a week of full-time on-site training.

    I'll go out on a limb and say a Plumber does, in fcat, require more skill than that. No disrespect to your "observing of various business ops as part of a Multinational conglomerate".

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Meat trimming in the current industrial/mass market environemnt can be done by an uneducated person (no schooling of any kind), after a week of full-time on-site training.

    I'll go out on a limb and say a Plumber does, in fcat, require more skill than that. No disrespect to your "observing of various business ops as part of a Multinational conglomerate".

    I don't want to get into an "arguement" but a meat cutter is well trained. Apprenticed in many areas with a good company. A week? Sorry fish, Maybe at YOUR supermarket for chop meat, not at a real company. Smithfield for ex. Among many others.
    I can do plumbing for God sake and have. Electrical work also. Meat cutting (butcher) no way.
    You live in VA, drive down to Smithfield and check them out. Good paying jobs.

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