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Thread: We're Doing This The Wrong Way, It's Too Late, Just Deal With It

  1. #1
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    We're Doing This The Wrong Way, It's Too Late, Just Deal With It

    We committed to a rookie head coach to cut his teeth on our team.

    This head coach is playing all the low percentages:

    - Trying to win a Super Bowl on defense, only been done 3 times out of 46 tries.

    - Trying to win games via ball control on the ground in a league that's been optimized to win in the air passing.

    - Trying to manage a team as three individual units with three different Assistant HC's with different styles who wind up pushing the team apart moreso than bringing it together.

    - Trying to be a friendly "players coach" rather than a disciplinarian.

    - Going crazy building a shut-down defense while virtually ignoring the offense.

    If you look at it big-picture, this "Shut Down D" and "Ground & Pound" strategy has never worked. In '09 we came close, the D dominated, but still we only managed a mediocre 9-7 record, didn't set the league on fire with our running game. In '10 our defense showed a lot of weakness, gave up a lot of 4th quarter leads, and saw our offense get us 4 improbable comeback wins in the air, not on the ground. Once in the playoffs, we played smart and made enough big plays to get us halfway to glory, but again only one game really worked on the "Shut Down D" and "Ground & Pound" strategy. The rest came from last minute heriocs, some timely interceptions, and some air ball. Just like the two regular seasons that preceded it, the two postseasons were high on improv, low on the original concept.

    It seems that the price we pay for sustaining a great defense is that we wind up with a paltry offense. Sound familiar? Look at the Baltimore Ravens, look at the Tampa Bay Bucs, look at the Chicago Bears. All won Super Bowls when all the pieces aligned finally, but for the better part of a decade each suffered with pathetic offenses starved of talent to fuel stellar defenses. Boring games, fans with nothing to cheer for but the defense, all-pro defenders pissed at the offense, quarterbacks that looked clueless, constant three-and-outs, nail-biters 24/7.

    I'm not calling for anyone's head, but facts are facts. Until Ryan and Tannenbaum decide we're a different type of team and are willing to sacrifice defensive depth for offensive strength this is what we're going to have to deal with. "Playing Jet Football" is a low-percentage play and it's what we've chosen to do.

    SAR I
    Last edited by SAR I; 08-18-2012 at 11:55 PM.

  2. #2
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    The offense is terrible all around.

    Also, your boy Sanchez isn't the answer at QB and neither is Tebow.

    I'm starting to think we should just draft a QB in the 1st round every year until one finally pans out.

    I'd kill for a young QB like Andrew Luck.

    Hell, I'd kill for a young QB like Andy Dalton.

  3. #3
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    I think going DE with our first draft choice was stupid given that's one of the strongest positions on the team (and we spent a 1st rounder there the year before). I have to think the choice was Rex's.

    It would have been a lot smarter to take a RT in the first who would be starting right now.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    We committed to a rookie head coach to cut his teeth on our team.

    This head coach is playing all the low percentages:

    - Trying to win a Super Bowl on defense, only been done 3 times out of 46 tries.

    - Trying to win games via ball control on the ground in a league that's been optimized to win in the air passing.

    - Trying to manage a team as three individual units with three different Assistant HC's with different styles who wind up pushing the team apart moreso than bringing it together.

    - Trying to be a friendly "players coach" rather than a disciplinarian.

    - Going crazy building a shut-down defense while virtually ignoring the offense.

    If you look at it big-picture, this "Shut Down D" and "Ground & Pound" strategy has never worked. In '09 we came close, the D dominated, but still we only managed a mediocre 9-7 record, didn't set the league on fire with our running game. In '10 our defense showed a lot of weakness, gave up a lot of 4th quarter leads, and saw our offense get us 4 improbable comeback wins in the air, not on the ground. Once in the playoffs, we played smart and made enough big plays to get us halfway to glory, but again only one game really worked on the "Shut Down D" and "Ground & Pound" strategy. The rest came from last minute heriocs, some timely interceptions, and some air ball. Just like the two regular seasons that preceded it, the two postseasons were high on improv, low on the original concept.

    It seems that the price we pay for sustaining a great defense is that we wind up with a paltry offense. Sound familiar? Look at the Baltimore Ravens, look at the Tampa Bay Bucs, look at the Chicago Bears. All won Super Bowls when all the pieces aligned finally, but for the better part of a decade each suffered with pathetic offenses starved of talent to fuel stellar defenses. Boring games, fans with nothing to cheer for but the defense, all-pro defenders pissed at the offense, quarterbacks that looked clueless, constant three-and-outs, nail-biters 24/7.

    I'm not calling for anyone's head, but facts are facts. Until Ryan and Tannenbaum decide we're a different type of team and are willing to sacrifice defensive depth for offensive strength this is what we're going to have to deal with. "Playing Jet Football" is a low-percentage play and it's what we've chosen to do.

    SAR I
    you either need an elite QB or an elite defense to compete for a championship. we're closer to the latter-- we need to do what the giants did for eli by supplying sanchez with a ferocious defense so that he doesn't have to win games all on his own. he's good enough to win in the playoffs with but he should be happy he's got a good defense to keep points off the board. our only hope is to get lucky and hit some home runs with some of these draft picks

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by lageman4ever View Post
    I think going DE with our first draft choice was stupid given that's one of the strongest positions on the team (and we spent a 1st rounder there the year before). I have to think the choice was Rex's.

    It would have been a lot smarter to take a RT in the first who would be starting right now.
    who? reiff? drafting for need is not what winning teams do. the giants would have not made the playoffs never mind winning a SB last year if they had not drafted JPP even though they had a good D-Line

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    We committed to a rookie head coach to cut his teeth on our team.

    This head coach is playing all the low percentages:

    - Trying to win a Super Bowl on defense, only been done 3 times out of 46 tries.

    - Trying to win games via ball control on the ground in a league that's been optimized to win in the air passing.

    - Trying to manage a team as three individual units with three different Assistant HC's with different styles who wind up pushing the team apart moreso than bringing it together.

    - Trying to be a friendly "players coach" rather than a disciplinarian.

    - Going crazy building a shut-down defense while virtually ignoring the offense.

    If you look at it big-picture, this "Shut Down D" and "Ground & Pound" strategy has never worked. In '09 we came close, the D dominated, but still we only managed a mediocre 9-7 record, didn't set the league on fire with our running game. In '10 our defense showed a lot of weakness, gave up a lot of 4th quarter leads, and saw our offense get us 4 improbable comeback wins in the air, not on the ground. Once in the playoffs, we played smart and made enough big plays to get us halfway to glory, but again only one game really worked on the "Shut Down D" and "Ground & Pound" strategy. The rest came from last minute heriocs, some timely interceptions, and some air ball. Just like the two regular seasons that preceded it, the two postseasons were high on improv, low on the original concept.

    It seems that the price we pay for sustaining a great defense is that we wind up with a paltry offense. Sound familiar? Look at the Baltimore Ravens, look at the Tampa Bay Bucs, look at the Chicago Bears. All won Super Bowls when all the pieces aligned finally, but for the better part of a decade each suffered with pathetic offenses starved of talent to fuel stellar defenses. Boring games, fans with nothing to cheer for but the defense, all-pro defenders pissed at the offense, quarterbacks that looked clueless, constant three-and-outs, nail-biters 24/7.

    I'm not calling for anyone's head, but facts are facts. Until Ryan and Tannenbaum decide we're a different type of team and are willing to sacrifice defensive depth for offensive strength this is what we're going to have to deal with. "Playing Jet Football" is a low-percentage play and it's what we've chosen to do.

    SAR I
    You are 100% on point here. Look at the bilicheck, a defensive genius who evolved to respect the power of putting points on the board.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cant wait View Post
    you either need an elite QB or an elite defense to compete for a championship. we're closer to the latter-- we need to do what the giants did for eli by supplying sanchez with a ferocious defense so that he doesn't have to win games all on his own. he's good enough to win in the playoffs with but he should be happy he's got a good defense to keep points off the board. our only hope is to get lucky and hit some home runs with some of these draft picks
    The difference with the Giants is that Eli is the best QB in his division and there is no powerhouse dynasty in the NFC East to contend with. Coughlin is the best HC in his division, doesn't make the dumb emotional mistake that costs his team a game.

    In spurts, the Jets defense has been ferocious enough to make it so that Sanchez doesn't have to win games all on his own, but Mark only had that one-two punch at RB in '09 and that stud WR in '10, never simultaneously as the Giants had.

    SAR I

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhyan66 View Post
    You are 100% on point here. Look at the bilicheck, a defensive genius who evolved to respect the power of putting points on the board.
    Yes, and he got that from Bill Parcells who also built killer defenses but never neglected the offense to the point that Ryan and Tannenbaum have. Be it Charlie Weis or Dan Henning, Parcells and Belichick had guys that could make an offense go and pick the right personnel.

    I mean, come on. If I bet you $1000 last December that the Jets would come into this season with Wayne Hunter still on the roster you'd have thought I was crazy, and here he is starting again. Plax folded late but was a catalyst early, making us the best redzone team in the NFL at one point. LT had to be respected out of the backfield by LB's. We've given Sanchez nothing to work with, can't believe it's worse than last year. It's incomprehensible.

    SAR I

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    Quote Originally Posted by lageman4ever View Post
    I think going DE with our first draft choice was stupid given that's one of the strongest positions on the team (and we spent a 1st rounder there the year before). I have to think the choice was Rex's.

    It would have been a lot smarter to take a RT in the first who would be starting right now.
    Well, in fairness, I am a believer that in the 1st you go with BPA. Apart from Kalil, I don't think there were OT's that graded out so high they were a must-get.

    That doesn't mean something shouldn't have been done about Hunter - just that I don't think there was an easy solution even from the draft.

  10. #10
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    The one thing I agree with SAR is that Rex must place a lot of pressure on tanny to get him defensive players as that is what makes him comfortable.
    In the last 3 years

    Wilkenson, Wilson, Coples, all the #1s on D.

    Scott and Cro as big money picks on D- plus 4 safeties at various prices.

    Only Holmes and Lt on Offense. While losing Edwards, Cotch, Faneca, Jones, Washington and Woody.

    But this does allow Rex to say he is the best def coach.

  11. #11
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    The thing that I can't understand is how Rex such a good defensive coach but is clueless when it comes to offense. Doesn't he have to understand offense in order to defend it? That's what makes Belichick such a good coach. He taught Brady to play QB through the eyes of the Defense and that's why he can read almost everything defenses throw at him. I hate when Rex keeps saying "Oh you don't want me meddling in on that side of the ball". Why not? Step up to the plate and learn some offense and become a HEAD coach, not just a glorified D cord.

  12. #12
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    Rex will go back after the Jets to be an elite DC. Our draft has been mediocre under Rex. For all the shyt Mangini got he drafted well. Cant believe how bad our OL is!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    We committed to a rookie head coach to cut his teeth on our team.

    This head coach is playing all the low percentages:

    - Trying to win a Super Bowl on defense, only been done 3 times out of 46 tries.

    - Trying to win games via ball control on the ground in a league that's been optimized to win in the air passing.

    - Trying to manage a team as three individual units with three different Assistant HC's with different styles who wind up pushing the team apart moreso than bringing it together.

    - Trying to be a friendly "players coach" rather than a disciplinarian.

    - Going crazy building a shut-down defense while virtually ignoring the offense.

    If you look at it big-picture, this "Shut Down D" and "Ground & Pound" strategy has never worked. In '09 we came close, the D dominated, but still we only managed a mediocre 9-7 record, didn't set the league on fire with our running game. In '10 our defense showed a lot of weakness, gave up a lot of 4th quarter leads, and saw our offense get us 4 improbable comeback wins in the air, not on the ground. Once in the playoffs, we played smart and made enough big plays to get us halfway to glory, but again only one game really worked on the "Shut Down D" and "Ground & Pound" strategy. The rest came from last minute heriocs, some timely interceptions, and some air ball. Just like the two regular seasons that preceded it, the two postseasons were high on improv, low on the original concept.

    It seems that the price we pay for sustaining a great defense is that we wind up with a paltry offense. Sound familiar? Look at the Baltimore Ravens, look at the Tampa Bay Bucs, look at the Chicago Bears. All won Super Bowls when all the pieces aligned finally, but for the better part of a decade each suffered with pathetic offenses starved of talent to fuel stellar defenses. Boring games, fans with nothing to cheer for but the defense, all-pro defenders pissed at the offense, quarterbacks that looked clueless, constant three-and-outs, nail-biters 24/7.

    I'm not calling for anyone's head, but facts are facts. Until Ryan and Tannenbaum decide we're a different type of team and are willing to sacrifice defensive depth for offensive strength this is what we're going to have to deal with. "Playing Jet Football" is a low-percentage play and it's what we've chosen to do.

    SAR I
    WOW this is the best post I have read all night. SAR you are on fire with this one. Where as I don't agree with everything there are a LOT of good point in here. Ever sense BP we have tried to higher coaches that "relate" to the players. What? How is that a good idea? It is like parents that let their kids make all their own decisions. What you get is a kid that goes to school in pajamas and eats ice cream in the morning. Look at the Giants or even Pittsburgh. Those are old style coaches that lay the law down hard. You don't see them fighting on the field. The one thing I do like about Sparano was he did manage to get that Miami to to play hard even after they started soo bad. Even handled Marshall well. I can only hope he has that effect here with our O only sooner.

    You're also dead on that this team is built to play gun sling football not ground and pound. Sanchez just isn't that kind of QB. If he is going to give up INTs and he is I'd rather him at least be trying to make big plays. He is not Alex Smith small ball just makes him look worse not better. I still do not buy that, that is what we will run come game time. If they do I just don't get it anymore. I get setting up the pass with the run but come 3rd quarter they should be passing on 1st downs IMO. Now in general I don't think we have seen the plays they are running in practice but yeah why haven't we seen one long pass? Even with 3 WRs out you'd think they would want to see what the depth can do. Are they really that scared of hurting White, Hill, or Turner? Heck throw Jackson in just for the fun of it. Lord knows he can go deep. Might not catch it but he will get open.

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    Pretty much a spot on post. We do not have an offensive advocate at all. We went into the offseason with S, RT, WR, and a pass rusher as our most pressing needs. At safety we get a premier guy in Landry and a solid veteran in what's his face from MIA (sorry its late). We use our 1st round pick on a Pass rusher. On offense we get some glassjaw never has been and we don't even bother to address RT at all. Rex's pride will not give a little on defense in order to improve the offense. You tell Rex he needs to field a defense that ranks lower so we can improve the offense and he will tell you to pound salt. He wants to win a Super Bowl, but he wants to do so with a top tier defense.

    Ultimately the problem is everyone in charge has caveats to the method in which we reach the ultimate goal. Rex wants to do it with stellar defense at the expense of the offense, Woody wants to do it while stealing headlines the whole way with a circus like the Tebow show, and Tanny wants to do it while making both of them happy. We have no one that objectively looks at this team as an entire unit and makes logical sacrifices in the right places to help in other areas of the team.

  15. #15
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    Marks is afraid to let it go deep. Hill was open deep at least 2x when i was watching him one time mark checked down the other he took the sack. another time he looked his way (hill was getting contact/held up after 5 yds) and mark took a sack. hill was also wide open on that pass to white that was short on the 3rd down that tebow threw

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    The one thing I agree with SAR is that Rex must place a lot of pressure on tanny to get him defensive players as that is what makes him comfortable.
    In the last 3 years

    Wilkenson, Wilson, Coples, all the #1s on D.

    Scott and Cro as big money picks on D- plus 4 safeties at various prices.

    Only Holmes and Lt on Offense. While losing Edwards, Cotch, Faneca, Jones, Washington and Woody.

    But this does allow Rex to say he is the best def coach.
    Woody retired, dumping Faneca was a good move. So not really true, but you have a good point.

  17. #17
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    We WANT to Ground and Pound with:


    An offensive line that is average, at best, in the run game with no ability to run to the outside without help from extra linemen.

    A bad punter that can't hold the fort in the field position battle when the running game can't get going.

    A bad kicker that can't make 40+ yarders with consistency.

    A stable of backs that are incapable of breaking long runs. You're not going to piece together 6-8, 4-5 yard runs on a drive to score a TD.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachelors III View Post
    The thing that I can't understand is how Rex such a good defensive coach but is clueless when it comes to offense. Doesn't he have to understand offense in order to defend it? That's what makes Belichick such a good coach. He taught Brady to play QB through the eyes of the Defense and that's why he can read almost everything defenses throw at him. I hate when Rex keeps saying "Oh you don't want me meddling in on that side of the ball". Why not? Step up to the plate and learn some offense and become a HEAD coach, not just a glorified D cord.
    +1000

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    The difference with the Giants is that Eli is the best QB in his division and there is no powerhouse dynasty in the NFC East to contend with. Coughlin is the best HC in his division, doesn't make the dumb emotional mistake that costs his team a game.

    In spurts, the Jets defense has been ferocious enough to make it so that Sanchez doesn't have to win games all on his own, but Mark only had that one-two punch at RB in '09 and that stud WR in '10, never simultaneously as the Giants had.

    SAR I
    The eagles will win more games than the giants will in the regular season this year. Mark it down. Coughlin has made plenty of mistakes, he should be on his knees thanking eric smith for blowing that coverage on that 99 yard play to cruz that put the giants in the playoffs on xmas. eli has had stud after stud on O and D... nicks/manningham/cruz? bradshaw/jacobs? osi/tuck/canty/JPP? please... the giants are far from perfect but they load their team up with playmakers that can make a difference in the playoffs... take away cruz or JPP from last year's team and they don't even get by GB. lucky for us we have a QB in sanchez that can step up in big games in the playoffs. just give him a chance to get in and we will see how far this team can go

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by lageman4ever View Post
    I think going DE with our first draft choice was stupid given that's one of the strongest positions on the team (and we spent a 1st rounder there the year before). I have to think the choice was Rex's.

    It would have been a lot smarter to take a RT in the first who would be starting right now.
    if they even think about drafting defense next year in rd 1 everyone needs to be fired.. the offense has no big time playmaking prospects outside of hill. RB's is horse **** all ****ing slow, Both Qbs together not making 1 quality QB, Oline has holes. outside of holmes and hill the recievers are horrible..

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