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Thread: The Offense is Better At Passing Than Running

  1. #1

    The Offense is Better At Passing Than Running

    This is an indisputable fact and the inability of the coaching staff to recognize it is going to kill us.

    I see people talking about how we ran the ball well today. WHAT?

    I don't think people understand how running the football works in the NFL. 3 and 4 yard runs =/= success. EVERY team is going to be stopped behind the LOS on a number of runs in every game. The only way for a running game to balance this out is by being able to break 10+ yard runs on a semi-regular basis. If you want to be run heavy, you need to break even more of those long than the average team. But we're the worst team in the league at that.

    The year that Chris Johnson ran for 2,000 yards? He led the league in runs for no gain or negative yards.



    11 carries for 36 yards
    6 carries for 21 yards
    3 carries for 3 yards
    2 carries for 0 yards

    Those are the numbers for our running backs. A long run of 8 yards.

    The INT that Sanchez threw was terrible, but that was toward the end of the 2nd quarter and he was 9/10 before that. He was doing exactly what Rex and the coaching staff have wanted from him before that: taking the easy completion and coming away with positive yards, and we had zero points.

    Even if we execute our preferred philosophy to perfection, we're not going to score points this year because we want to GROUND AND POUND with a terrible running game.

    Is our plan really to win games 10-7?




    The only way we're going to score is through the air. And those points are going to come along with turnovers and a ton of sacks. Still, that's preferable to the slow death that we'll be doomed to if we proceed with the current plan. You can win 8-9 games with a middling, turnover prone passing game and a great defense. Relying on a bad running game and a great defense is going to get you 3 or 4 wins because a "great" defense in 2012 is a defense that allows less than 20 points per game. And you're not going to score 20 by leaning on a bad running game.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1089 View Post
    The INT that Sanchez threw was terrible, but that was toward the end of the 2nd quarter and he was 9/10 before that. He was doing exactly what Rex and the coaching staff have wanted from him before that: taking the easy completion and coming away with positive yards, and we had zero points.
    .
    Things are easy until they aren't. The first team didn't convert ONE of their six third-down chances. And don't even ask about the red zone because they didn't get there.

    Completion percentage is meaningless - the above stats are what count - and the passing game was as bad as the running game on that count.

    I'm not saying we should ground and pound, just that our 'air' game is certainly no panacea - despite some surface stats.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by adpz View Post
    Things are easy until they aren't. The first team didn't convert ONE of their six third-down chances. And don't even ask about the red zone because they didn't get there.

    Completion percentage is meaningless - the above stats are what count - and the passing game was as bad as the running game on that count.

    I'm not saying we should ground and pound, just that our 'air' game is certainly no panacea - despite some surface stats.
    I'm saying that we need to throw the ball more and change our approach to throwing the ball. I don't like the "just take the easy completion" philosophy that this coaching staff wants to go forward with.

    They talk about running attempts + completions. The 1st team offense did well by those standards. We didn't score points because that's a flawed approach to offense.

  4. #4
    I've seen you post a few times about this JB, you're absolutely correct.

    In a way, it's just like Mangini trying to force the 3-4 even though we had 4-3 personnel.

    We are now trying to be a running team with:

    -Average run blocking linemen
    -JAG talent at RB
    -No HINT of a deep pass possibility to keep the defense from stacking the box

    Why not plan a balanced traditional offense for this vanilla group of offensive talent, instead of a specialty offense that capitalizes on exactly none of our strengths?

  5. #5
    No team breaks 10+ yard runs on a semi-regular basis.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gastineau99 View Post
    No team breaks 10+ yard runs on a semi-regular basis.
    We would be lucky if Shonn Greene did it 5 times this season. His vision is poor he almost never see the cutback lane. He rather run right into defenders

  7. #7
    Oh, we are playing the Jets this week--you know, the Ground and Pounders. Okay, eight men in the box, neutralize Mangold and the game is ours. Just force Santebow to beat us through the air.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1089 View Post
    This is an indisputable fact and the inability of the coaching staff to recognize it is going to kill us.

    I see people talking about how we ran the ball well today. WHAT?

    I don't think people understand how running the football works in the NFL. 3 and 4 yard runs =/= success. EVERY team is going to be stopped behind the LOS on a number of runs in every game. The only way for a running game to balance this out is by being able to break 10+ yard runs on a semi-regular basis. If you want to be run heavy, you need to break even more of those long than the average team. But we're the worst team in the league at that.

    The year that Chris Johnson ran for 2,000 yards? He led the league in runs for no gain or negative yards.



    11 carries for 36 yards
    6 carries for 21 yards
    3 carries for 3 yards
    2 carries for 0 yards

    Those are the numbers for our running backs. A long run of 8 yards.

    The INT that Sanchez threw was terrible, but that was toward the end of the 2nd quarter and he was 9/10 before that. He was doing exactly what Rex and the coaching staff have wanted from him before that: taking the easy completion and coming away with positive yards, and we had zero points.

    Even if we execute our preferred philosophy to perfection, we're not going to score points this year because we want to GROUND AND POUND with a terrible running game.

    Is our plan really to win games 10-7?




    The only way we're going to score is through the air. And those points are going to come along with turnovers and a ton of sacks. Still, that's preferable to the slow death that we'll be doomed to if we proceed with the current plan. You can win 8-9 games with a middling, turnover prone passing game and a great defense. Relying on a bad running game and a great defense is going to get you 3 or 4 wins because a "great" defense in 2012 is a defense that allows less than 20 points per game. And you're not going to score 20 by leaning on a bad running game.
    9 of 10 masks the problem cleaverly! They were all short passes and easy throws at that and I doubt that the staff asked him to take the easy way out! ! Try winning a SB with short passes! CHAD was a masetr at it with the 4 yard "bombs" to the rb! Sanchez is a copy cat!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gastineau99 View Post
    No team breaks 10+ yard runs on a semi-regular basis.
    That is part of the point. Even the best RBs don't do it. So how can we expect our RBs to do it and our offense to put up points with our RBs.

    We are ass backwards on offense.

    I am as hard on Sanchez as anybody. But even I feel like he has been set up to fail. It is not fair. The talent around him has gotten worse every year. And every QB deserves a chance to throw the ball.

    I don't see where Sparano's offense is going to be better than Schotty's. The philosophy may be different but the results will be the same. The idea is to score points and we can't do that.

    I know it is the pre season but IMO this is a microcosm of things to come. I just don't see where the improvement is going to come from. Greene is not a dynamic RB. Our OL is poor in pass protection at the edges. And our QB is inaccurate. Those are talent issues, not coaching issues. Our talent is limited therefore our offense is limited. We have Holmes but he is going to be doubled every play.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet View Post
    9 of 10 masks the problem cleaverly! They were all short passes and easy throws at that and I doubt that the staff asked him to take the easy way out! ! Try winning a SB with short passes! CHAD was a masetr at it with the 4 yard "bombs" to the rb! Sanchez is a copy cat!
    He wasn't his first two years until they got rid of his possession receiver and his deep threat. Patrick turner and a rookie with only a four man rush applying pressure. Where did you want him to throw the ball last night?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet View Post
    9 of 10 masks the problem cleaverly! They were all short passes and easy throws at that and I doubt that the staff asked him to take the easy way out! ! Try winning a SB with short passes! CHAD was a masetr at it with the 4 yard "bombs" to the rb! Sanchez is a copy cat!
    Agreed ....

    problem with the 'Dink and Dunk' ....

    You need an extremely accurate passer for it to work. I mean Pennington accurate. The reason being because it takes 10 passes to get downfield. A more aggressive offense requires fewer , albeit longer , throws to get downfield. As few as 2 or 3. Your completion percentage will need to stay high, but you are taking fewer chances because each chance is more yardage.

    For ground and pound , I'd prefer a much longer passing attack in terms of yardage per attempt.

    Run, run, run, run, 35 yard pass, run, 20 yard pass etc...

    Instead of

    Run, run, 2 yard pass, run, 4 yard pass, run, 3 yard pass ...

    Sparano was advertised as run and chunk, not dink and dunk.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet View Post
    9 of 10 masks the problem cleaverly! They were all short passes and easy throws at that and I doubt that the staff asked him to take the easy way out! ! Try winning a SB with short passes! CHAD was a masetr at it with the 4 yard "bombs" to the rb! Sanchez is a copy cat!
    Hello? What do you think Chad taught him at Cortland?

    He said to Mark, "Dude, wins are overrated; it's all about Passer Rating. Always go for the sure easy completion even if it means you must punt.

    Don't jeopardize your precious PR by throwing downfield for a 1st down; it's too risky. Just get the shortest easiest completion. Think "Passer Rating" at all times; the best kept secret.

    Trust me. Your QB ranking will soar. Completion % inflates PR and creates the illusion of supreme accuracy and QB eliteness. Losses? Who cares? Blown games are on the rest of the team, get it?

    Wins are bogus team stats. Passer Rating is the single best metric for individual performance according to short-sighted stat geeks, even though it takes others to get open, catch the ball, create yardage, and guys to block, etc.

    Misguided nerds sweep all that stuff under the rug. Just worry about YOU."

  13. #13
    Your concept may be correct but your thread title is wrong. Both passing and running blows. The fact that we can't pass for anything over 10 yards and have no vertical threat means teams can stack the box and jump all the short passing routes.

    If the Jets can't find a way to go deep successfully at least once a game and actually throw it deep about 4 times a game they will fail.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Your concept may be correct but your thread title is wrong. Both passing and running blows. The fact that we can't pass for anything over 10 yards and have no vertical threat means teams can stack the box and jump all the short passing routes.

    If the Jets can't find a way to go deep successfully at least once a game and actually throw it deep about 4 times a game they will fail.
    You're just full of piss and vinegar today.

  15. #15
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    If you have been paying attention, our offense is not good at running or passing. One is not better then the other. They both stink.

  16. #16
    we didn't get to 2 AFCC games under this regime by throwing the ball around 50 times and playing shoot out games. We managed clock, protected the ball, and let our defense dominate.

    We don't have the personnel to be spreading teams out 5 wide. We don't have the QB, the receivers, none of that. Our best chance is to have a timely scoring offense but more than anything being a ball control offense keeping the other team's offense off the field. It worked well for us 2 years in a row. We can still take chances and do all that other good stuff and take some shots down field but if this offense is going to throw the ball 35-40x a game then you're asking for a fail. To be frank we don't know what the hell this offense is good at right now ... we'll see after week 4 if they're good at anything.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Your concept may be correct but your thread title is wrong. Both passing and running blows. The fact that we can't pass for anything over 10 yards and have no vertical threat means teams can stack the box and jump all the short passing routes.

    If the Jets can't find a way to go deep successfully at least once a game and actually throw it deep about 4 times a game they will fail.
    Ding.

  18. #18
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    The fact that we can't pass for anything over 10 yards and have no vertical threat means teams can stack the box and jump all the short passing routes.

    If the Jets can't find a way to go deep successfully at least once a game and actually throw it deep about 4 times a game they will fail.
    Vanilla offense remember. We are hiding the deep pass. Because if we throw 1 deep pass in the preseason, then teams will know we throw deep passes and we will not be able to complete 1 deep pass during the regular season.

    Im surprised sparano is not just taking a knee every play. I mean, we are showing them our running plays. How will Greene ever be able to effectively run into the backs of his offensive lineman during the season now?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe W. Namath View Post
    Vanilla offense remember. We are hiding the deep pass. Because if we throw 1 deep pass in the preseason, then teams will know we throw deep passes and we will not be able to complete 1 deep pass during the regular season.

    Im surprised sparano is not just taking a knee every play. I mean, we are showing them our running plays. How will Greene ever be able to effectively run into the backs of his offensive lineman during the season now?
    this theory would coincide well with the "is Wayne Hunter our darkhorse" thread.

    Tricky coaches are fooling us all.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe W. Namath View Post
    Vanilla offense remember. We are hiding the deep pass. Because if we throw 1 deep pass in the preseason, then teams will know we throw deep passes and we will not be able to complete 1 deep pass during the regular season.

    Im surprised sparano is not just taking a knee every play. I mean, we are showing them our running plays. How will Greene ever be able to effectively run into the backs of his offensive lineman during the season now?

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