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Thread: Hunter has bullseye painted on his jersey

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by petejet View Post
    Pretty hard to make a 3 second decision in 1.5 seconds.
    see this is how Mods do it -










    ...and yes I'm brown nosing - see if you can get Sooth to send me my damn tshirt

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    What are you talking about? Miller hit Sanchez before 3 seconds. So your "Sanchez needs to learn to throw the ball in 3 seconds" argument is shot to crap on this particular video.

    Also, if you bothered to watch the video, you will see that the receivers hadn't even gone into their cuts by the time that Sanchez was hit.

    In other words, none of the receivers were ready to receive the ball.
    Mark could have lofted one to where Keller is gonna be. We never see Mark throwing guys open, he isn't making decisions quick enough. I don't care if Mark only gets 2 seconds he can get rid of it in 2 seconds. Guys do it all the time. Throw it Mark, he doesn't have to fold up like a lawn chair.

    There's a brief second in that video where Mark is supposed to make a throw and he steps up, just tucks his head and gets creamed. If you know what you are looking for it's there.

    and let me be clear I didn't put that video up as proof that Hunter is good. He's not good. I put it up because the QB needs to throw earlier, period. There's a reason why the Jets pay Mark 50 million dollars since he was drafted and Wayne Hunter makes 2 million a year. It's all on Mark. If you don't believe me, watch other teams, functional offenses deal with pressure and get rid of it. Mark is like a college QB still basking in the USC sun. (Tebow is even worse)

    remember for all this Wayne Hunter BS, Nick Mangold is the best center on the planet. DBrick made his 3rd pro bowl. Moore made his 1st. This is not a bad OL, even if Hunter is garbage. The problem is the QB is lounging back there. no awareness for the rush, making late (or bad) decisions. Even when he has all day he throws a pick 6.

    eventually everyone is gonna be fired, last year it was Schotty, this year it will be Wayne. maybe they fire Santonio or the general manager. But eventually the only one who hasn't been fired will be Mark. And then maybe you guys will take off the green glasses and evaluate this player fairly.
    Last edited by bitonti; 08-21-2012 at 01:00 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    There's a brief second in that video where Mark is supposed to make a throw and he steps up, just tucks his head and gets creamed. If you know what you are looking for it's there.
    1) 2 seconds is not enough
    2) If he threw to empty space as you suggest and gets intercepted you'd be complaining about that.
    3) If he tried to throw and fumbled, you'd be complaining about that.

    Sparano is just going to have to keep an extra man back for protection and the WRs are going to have to work extra hard to get free. Maybe that's only fair, at least for Holmes, after doggin it last year.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    Mark doesn't deal with pressure. that's a far bigger bullseye. the league knows Mark can't burn a blitz. Wayne Hunter will be the fall guy and (he deserves it) but if Mark could make 3 second decisions instead of 5 second decisions, the team would be far more successful. I don't care if there are 5 all-pros on the OL, sometimes the Qb is not going to have time. that's life in the NFL.

    None of the sacks from Saturday were off of a blitz. Of the four, only one was mostly on Sanchez and that was on a three man rush. He stepped up in the pocket wisely and athletically, but then he froze up and didn't pull the trigger (Powell was getting open on a wheel route and Keller was settled in a zone about 13 yards down the field. He created time and new windows, but he got stage fright. He was about 80-90% to blame for that one.

    The other three sacks, however, are almost solely on Hunter being embarrassed and then partially due to the WRs not being able to get off press coverage (unfortunately, Hill got jammed up on two of the sacks). In the first sack, all four wideouts got locked up completely and a semi-covered dump-off to Powell was the only option. Sanchez tried to step up in the pocket to buy another half second, but he got pinballed right into JPP.

  5. #25
    If the Jets do not get a replacement for hunter they absolutely must help him out on most every passing down with either a RB chip or a TE chip. If you have a weak link you have to change your game plan to mitigate it.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarjet View Post
    But if you are quicker in tempo and decision making, O-Line deficiencies can be managed.
    .. But then you get threads on the Pfail strip like "All Sanchez does is check down"

    I mean look at his 9 completions from Saturday. He got the ball out of his hands quickly, but people still complained about that.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    What are you talking about? Miller hit Sanchez before 3 seconds. So your "Sanchez needs to learn to throw the ball in 3 seconds" argument is shot to crap on this particular video.

    Also, if you bothered to watch the video, you will see that the receivers hadn't even gone into their cuts by the time that Sanchez was hit.

    In other words, none of the receivers were ready to receive the ball.

    LOL, exactly.

    Sanchez has plenty of deficiencies, but that Von Miller video was a replica of Saturday night. 4 man rush, 2 deep safeties, man coverage on everyone else. That's beatable, but not when the pass rusher gets to the QB in 2.5 seconds. When the defense can get to the QB with only 4 men on a consistent basis while also playing 2 deep safeties to prevent a chunk play and while also jamming up the receivers, you're screwed.

    Like I said before, Sanchez is to blame for plenty of sacks last year, but the Von Miller one from last year and 3 of the 4 from Saturday night are a result of poor protection, especially considering we have 5 guys blocking 4. It's one thing if he's not getting rid of it quickly on a blitz, but it's another when you're getting hit before your receivers are getting to their target depths.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    Mark could have lofted one to where Keller is gonna be. We never see Mark throwing guys open, he isn't making decisions quick enough. I don't care if Mark only gets 2 seconds he can get rid of it in 2 seconds. Guys do it all the time. Throw it Mark, he doesn't have to fold up like a lawn chair.

    There's a brief second in that video where Mark is supposed to make a throw and he steps up, just tucks his head and gets creamed. If you know what you are looking for it's there.

    and let me be clear I didn't put that video up as proof that Hunter is good. He's not good. I put it up because the QB needs to throw earlier, period. There's a reason why the Jets pay Mark 50 million dollars since he was drafted and Wayne Hunter makes 2 million a year. It's all on Mark. If you don't believe me, watch other teams, functional offenses deal with pressure and get rid of it. Mark is like a college QB still basking in the USC sun. (Tebow is even worse)

    remember for all this Wayne Hunter BS, Nick Mangold is the best center on the planet. DBrick made his 3rd pro bowl. Moore made his 1st. This is not a bad OL, even if Hunter is garbage. The problem is the QB is lounging back there. no awareness for the rush, making late (or bad) decisions. Even when he has all day he throws a pick 6.

    eventually everyone is gonna be fired, last year it was Schotty, this year it will be Wayne. maybe they fire Santonio or the general manager. But eventually the only one who hasn't been fired will be Mark. And then maybe you guys will take off the green glasses and evaluate this player fairly.
    I subscribe to your argument....to a point. You seem to think that everything is black and white. Sanchez has to work on getting the ball out earlier. True statement.

    But, putting that aside for a second, if we break down each and every play by Hunter, you will see a body of work that absolutely sucks. Also a true statement. You conveniently gloss over the areas that you don't want to focus on.

    Its not "all on Sanchez" as you suggest. Sanchez needs to be able to go through his reads quicker, but the Jets need better Oline play - especially from the RT. And until they get it, it won't really matter whether they have Sanchez back there or Peyton Manning. Neither QB will have enough time to be effective. Sanchez may have been able to salvage a play here and there and perhaps throw the ball away. We aren't looking for "salvage" - we're looking for positive yards.

    And the accolades received by this OLine in the past are all well and good. But, the line, as a whole, hasn't been even close to average. Hunter's especially poor play diverted attention from the other guys, but the fact that the Jets couldn't convert 3 plays from less than a yard is troubling. Rocky Bernard is a fine veteran lineman. He's not Ted Washington.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post

    remember for all this Wayne Hunter BS, Nick Mangold is the best center on the planet. DBrick made his 3rd pro bowl. Moore made his 1st. This is not a bad OL, even if Hunter is garbage. The problem is the QB is lounging back there. no awareness for the rush, making late (or bad) decisions. Even when he has all day he throws a pick 6.
    This is why having four solid to great linemen becomes null and void when one is beyond embarrassment:





    Ball snapped at 46 yard line. Look at how everyone but Hunter is stuffing their opponent at or a few yards behind the line of scrimmage. Hunter "engages" or shall I say does not even get his hands on Tuck when they first meet. Tuck is already 5 yards deep in this photo. It would not matter much if Hunter could get one shove on him to push him behind and out of the play. Let's see if that happens....









    Oops, he missed. Ole! Now at precisely 2 seconds from when the ball was snapped, Justin Tuck is 9 yards deep in the backfield and has turned the corner. In just 2 seconds, he is an arm's length away from the sack. By the time Sanchez tries to unload the ball, Tuck is already grabbing his throwing arm. When you don't have enough time to throw a 5 yard hook, something is terribly wrong. I'm sorry.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexipus Rex View Post
    When you don't have enough time to throw a 5 yard hook, something is terribly wrong. I'm sorry.
    please put up the freeze frames of Mark's pick 6. Even with all the sacks and the Hunter BS the Jets were only down 6 - 0.

    Mark had all day to throw and he chose a late poor pass turned into pick 6 by Hosley that is what blew the game open.

    Hunter can give up sack after sack my point is Wayne's poor play is not doing as much damage to this team's chances of winning as Mark's brain. Are these problems connected yes probably but there's a reason why mark makes 10x more than Wayne Hunter. There's nothing wrong with this team Mark can't fix. there are QB's out there who side step jailbreak pressure or make hot throws. Mark can't seem to operate at all. Here's a question whens the last time Mark Sanchez threw a pass longer than 20 yards? was it 2010?

    It's unrealistic to blame the RT for all the offense's problems, just like it was unrealistic to blame the offensive coordinator's love of pre-snap shifts.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    Mark doesn't deal with pressure. that's a far bigger bullseye. the league knows Mark can't burn a blitz. Wayne Hunter will be the fall guy and (he deserves it) but if Mark could make 3 second decisions instead of 5 second decisions, the team would be far more successful. I don't care if there are 5 all-pros on the OL, sometimes the Qb is not going to have time. that's life in the NFL.
    Blitz? We're not talking Blitzing! We're talking about Hunter blocking his man.

    Did you watch Saturday's game. JPP could of possibly had 5 sacks ( all in less than 3 seconds) if it were a regular season game.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    But, putting that aside for a second, if we break down each and every play by Hunter, you will see a body of work that absolutely sucks. Also a true statement. You conveniently gloss over the areas that you don't want to focus on.
    if you read my posts closely i never defend Wayne Hunter. he's not good. But he wasn't in the lineup against Cinci, are we blaming Austin Howard for Mark's inability to burn the blitz?

  13. #33
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    That video is the perfect example of how bad Wayne hunter is!!!! Like I said if we put Payton back there the same thing would of happen!!!! You cannot throw the ball when you are taking your first drop step back and someone is already in your face! This idiot is a swinging gate and will destroy our offense if they so not find anyone who can take his position! The front office has made one of the biggest blunders in their careers not getting rid of wayne hunter!!!!

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by ctjetfan View Post
    Blitz? We're not talking Blitzing! We're talking about Hunter blocking his man.

    Did you watch Saturday's game. JPP could of possibly had 5 sacks ( all in less than 3 seconds) if it were a regular season game.
    yeah i watch the game, mark's pick 6 had more of an effect on the final score than anything Wayne Hunter did or didn't do. End of the day the effect of the right tackle to the grand scheme of things are being wildly overblown. Just like how Schotty was scapegoated. Is Schotty a good coach? Maybe not. Is Hunter a good OL? nope. But these guys are pawns. It's all about Mark Sanchez. (and for the record Tebow is even worse at making quick decisions)

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    Mark could have lofted one to where Keller is gonna be. We never see Mark throwing guys open, he isn't making decisions quick enough. I don't care if Mark only gets 2 seconds he can get rid of it in 2 seconds. Guys do it all the time. Throw it Mark, he doesn't have to fold up like a lawn chair.

    There's a brief second in that video where Mark is supposed to make a throw and he steps up, just tucks his head and gets creamed. If you know what you are looking for it's there.

    and let me be clear I didn't put that video up as proof that Hunter is good. He's not good. I put it up because the QB needs to throw earlier, period. There's a reason why the Jets pay Mark 50 million dollars since he was drafted and Wayne Hunter makes 2 million a year. It's all on Mark. If you don't believe me, watch other teams, functional offenses deal with pressure and get rid of it. Mark is like a college QB still basking in the USC sun. (Tebow is even worse)

    remember for all this Wayne Hunter BS, Nick Mangold is the best center on the planet. DBrick made his 3rd pro bowl. Moore made his 1st. This is not a bad OL, even if Hunter is garbage. The problem is the QB is lounging back there. no awareness for the rush, making late (or bad) decisions. Even when he has all day he throws a pick 6.

    eventually everyone is gonna be fired, last year it was Schotty, this year it will be Wayne. maybe they fire Santonio or the general manager. But eventually the only one who hasn't been fired will be Mark. And then maybe you guys will take off the green glasses and evaluate this player fairly.

    Whan I watch Sanchez, it seems to me he his very good at side stepping and alluding the rush. I don't think you're giving him credit in this area. If Mark wasn't so evasive, he's be sacked a lot more.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    yeah i watch the game, mark's pick 6 had more of an effect on the final score than anything Wayne Hunter did or didn't do. End of the day the effect of the right tackle to the grand scheme of things are being wildly overblown. Just like how Schotty was scapegoated. Is Schotty a good coach? Maybe not. Is Hunter a good OL? nope. But these guys are pawns. It's all about Mark Sanchez. (and for the record Tebow is even worse at making quick decisions)
    I agree, the pick 6 was totally Mark's fault. No argueing that!!

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    Mark's lack of time is being over stated. it's rare that he gets that little time.

    remeber this Von Miller crushing Mark youtube from the Denver game?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLpimht0tUM

    Yes Hunter gets beat badly. and Yes Mark was going to get hit.

    But Mark takes his 3 steps and then... nothing. 1 one thousand,2 one thousand,3 one thousand, THROW... that's the league. What is he waiting for? Keller looked open enough. throw him open. that's what a good qB does.

    I'm just sick of all the excuses. People crushed Schotty last year. People crush Hunter. Maybe Tannenbaum should get fired.

    here's an idea maybe the QB can get rid of the ball as per the play design. Mark never got used to having less time than he had at USC. It's year 4 he needs to have that 3 second buzzer in his head.

    and even when he gets time he throws that awful pick 6 with no pressure. Ghost pressure? Cmon Mark. He's being paid like a superstar and he's playing like garbage.
    Bit,


    You know that this play is 3RD & 10, right?


    And there is not a single quarterback in the entire NFL that performs with any level of consistency when under pressure. I know you didn't miss that horrific INT that Eli threw on Saturday while under pressure.


    You want Sanchez to "throw guys open." That would be nice, but that requires a very high level of chemistry between QB and receiver. It's also something that's typically only done against man coverage.

    Generally speaking, it's a bad idea to throw the ball to a guy that's not yet looking, or even about to look, for the ball (as would be the case if they're not about to go into their break).

  18. #38
    Let's imagine the Jets had a different (better) right tackle. Heck let's imagine they have the best right tackle in the game (David Stewart maybe?).

    How much better is this offense? My opinion is not very. The Jets didn't have Hunter in the lineup against Cinci and still didn't score a TD. The problems with the offense run far deeper than the OL. in fact the OL might be the best part of the offense, all things considered.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    if you read my posts closely i never defend Wayne Hunter. he's not good. But he wasn't in the lineup against Cinci, are we blaming Austin Howard for Mark's inability to burn the blitz?
    No, but you gloss over it. This thread is about Wayne Hunter. And while I don't want to say they are completely different animals (as QBs and lineman have to work in synergy), Sanchez isn't the focus here. Its Hunter.

    You have a penchant of glossing over and dismissing things that aren't on your agenda. And, in this instance, your agenda is to say that Sanchez doesn't get rid of the ball quick enough. I agree with you to some extent, but Hunter's performance made it so no one could get rid of the ball.

    You want to discuss Sanchez's pick 6? Do it in a Sanchez thread. Even Stokes fell on the sword on that one - it was a terrible throw. But, in response to a poster's very good breakdown of Hunter's whiff, you reference a different play.

    If you want to find a play where Mark made Hunter look bad, go for it. But stick to the subject, not your agenda. You're an Oline guy, lets talk Hunter.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by JB1089 View Post
    And there is not a single quarterback in the entire NFL that performs with any level of consistency when under pressure
    some are better than others

    http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...nder-pressure/

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