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Thread: Let's face it: Coples was a luxury pick and we should have taken an OL in the first

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    It wasn't a luxury pick, it was a steal given that he was billed the #1 defensive prospect going into the college football season last year by some reports.

    It addresses one of the Jets' biggest issues from last year, a stud DE/OLB who can rush the passer and dominate the DL.

    Reiff and Glenn were not top 16 players, and you don't reach for either player, especially when the team has so much money already invested in the OL and at the other OT position.
    Coples was clearly the best player available, all things considered. He's already shown encouraging signs inpre-season games and TC, and should only get better with time if blooded into games at the appropriate pace.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    It's not just that. The Jets are going to be facing some tough personnel decisions next offseason, when something like 8 starters are free agents (Slauson, Moore, Greene, Keller, DeVito, Landry, Bell, and, if you count him as a starter, Maybin), and Revis to lock up long term. They won't have the ability to resign them all or replace them all in FA, so they are planning for the future.

    DeVito is likely gone, because Coples will be his replacement. Keller is likely gone, because Cumberland will be his replacement. Moore is likely gone, with Vlad as the replacement.

    That leaves Slauson, Greene, both safeties and Maybin to resign or replace in the draft or FA. Slauson is probably a relatively easy resign; he's a decent but not tremendous player at a non-premium position (if not, they let him go and resign Moore). Greene is probably easy to let walk unless he comes cheap; he's a good but not great RB whose game is power, not speed, and you don't give those players large second contracts. Landry, if he has a good year, likely gets franchised to give us a second year of seeing if he can stay healthy before we lock into him long term (it's him or Maybin, and the franchise tag for a safety is a lot more cap friendly than the linebacker tag). We look to do a long term deal with Maybin, maybe bring Bell back on a one year contract, and look for a replacement RT, upgrade at S, a RB, and an OG to compete with Vlad in the draft and FA.

    Of all those players we are likely letting go, the one who we didn't already have even a potential replacement for on the roster was DeVito. With Coples on the board, BPA in his own right and filling one of the holes we would need to be plugging in 2013 anyway (and without any assurance of doing it as cost-effectively or with as talented a player), the pick made perfect sense.

    Absent someone at another position who is head and shoulders above the crowd, and assuming we manage the resignings identified above, I'd expect next year's draft to go: OT, S/RB, S/RB, BPA from there
    Good post.

    I could definitely be wrong but I think I read that Landry's contract included a clause saying the Jets couldn't use the franchise tag on him next year.

  3. #63
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    By the way, I think people are completely missing how well the Jets have positioned themselves for 2014. Here's a list of their FAs after the 2013 season:

    Unrestricted
    Calvin Pace
    John Conner
    Joe McKnight
    Vladimir Ducasse
    Eric Smith

    Pace and Smith will be cut this offseason (cutting Pace, Smith, Scott and Hunter heading into 2013 clears about 22M in cap room, which the Jets will be using for the moves in my post above). So really, the Jets will have only 3 unrestricted free agents, 2 of whom (Conner and McKnight) they will likely have no interest at all in resigning, and one of whom (Ducasse) they are hoping will deserve a second contract as a starting guard.

    Restricted

    Nick Bellore
    Garrett McIntrye
    TJ Conley

    They'll resign Bellore to a cheap deal as a ST/FB, but really, that's it, here. Maybe Conley, if he earns another deal.

    In other words, the Jets will be free to be movers and shakers in 2014. They may also have to resign Austin Howard, Josh Mauga, Marcus Dixon and Jeff Cumberland (all RFAs in 2013, so if they play on 1 year deals, they will be UFAs in 2014), but none of those guys are break the bank types and one or two may already be on long term deals.

    Oh, and if he doesn't progress, the extension Sanchez signed first allows the Jets to cut him in . . . you guessed it, 2014 (for about 8M in extra cap room).

    The Jets FO has a plan . . . you just won't see it really play out for another two years.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Finally, the whole trade down thing always sounds like the "smart" move, except you need a trading partner and you need to get value for doing so. To simply say just trade down because there isnt anyone of need is a pretty naive statement.
    As I said in my previous post, Pittsburgh reportedly offered to trade up with the Jets in order to get DeCastro. The Jets declined because they couldn't risk missing out in Coples and Bruce Irvin. So I didn't throw out the trade down concept loosely.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakliusmaximus View Post
    Good post.

    I could definitely be wrong but I think I read that Landry's contract included a clause saying the Jets couldn't use the franchise tag on him next year.
    Thanks - and I looked into it, you're right.

    Looks like they'll be using the tag on Maybin, then

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Boston Patriot View Post
    Hang on. There will be some players available shortly and even if there isn't a serviceable OL available I suspect Rex and Tanny will start looking towards a trade. They might have to pay more than they want at this juncture but they are not going into the season with Hunter.
    Agreed.

    People don't seem to realize that the FO understands that Hunter is a liability. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to to get Jeff Otah in here.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    so, in the last three drafts since 2009 season in which the jets were ranked #1 in overall defense the jets took in the first 4 rds - Ducasse, Hill and Mckniight 12 spots -3 players none higher than mid 2nd.

    I know you mentioned Tebow, but I still honestly believe that was more of a PR signing than an honest attempt at shoring up the Offense.
    Yes, that would be correct.

    But you said the Jets kept not spending resources on offense, which over the last 5 years was not correct. Also, as you know, that #1 defense was aging, the D Line was becoming very old, and our LB core was getting very old. Now the D Line is much younger, more athletic, and the LB core is also hopefully younger.

    If anything, this is when the trading up can bite you in the butt. If you give up multiple picks, and get a Revis, then great. If you give up multiple picks and get a Keller, or Greene, not as great. Solid players, but not work 3 picks each.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    Best Player Available.

    I don't care who it is. You take the best player. Never draft for need unless BPA also happens to be the area of need. This is how the Giants built their dominant pass rush. Kept drafting DEs even though they had the bases covered because those players just so happened to be the BPA.
    Bingo. Agree completely. And it resulted in two Super Bowls for the Giants.

    If there are two players graded extremely close from a BPA standpoint (say a 7.7 and a 7.8) then maybe you take the guy just slightly lower if he's in a position of need, but you don't reach.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braumeister View Post
    Agreed.

    People don't seem to realize that the FO understands that Hunter is a liability. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to to get Jeff Otah in here.
    The risk management in this organization has not been that great. What if Sparano doesn't turn Hunter into a competent RT ? What then ? The FO didn't seem to have a contingency plan in place. Hence the panicked attempt to sign Otah.

    There's still time to have this all turn around if we can get a final cut OL who is decent. But betting the whole season on being able to get one is pretty reckless.

  10. #70
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    The Jets did not need to spend their 1st on an olineman. They didn't even have to spend their 2nd 1st rounder on an olineman. They did however have to sign or trade for a guy who has been in the league a few years (ala Woody of a few years ago).

    The thing that has set the Jets back badly draft wise imo is the Gholston pick and the Ducasse pick. Both are total busts that if they had even been serviceable the jets would have not had to spend picks to fill holes.

  11. #71
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    I remember people saying that the giants wasted their pick on Pierre Paul since they were already deep at defensive line. Shocker that the public and media turned out to be wrong. It's amazing how many brilliant gms we have on this board and yet none of them will ever be given the chance to run an nfl team.

  12. #72
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    A pass rusher is never a luxury pick and we had a bad pass rush...

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by lageman4ever View Post
    The risk management in this organization has not been that great. What if Sparano doesn't turn Hunter into a competent RT ? What then ? The FO didn't seem to have a contingency plan in place. Hence the panicked attempt to sign Otah.

    There's still time to have this all turn around if we can get a final cut OL who is decent. But betting the whole season on being able to get one is pretty reckless.
    I expect a trade for one as opposed to a waiver wire pickup. If a team releases a decent tackle, the Jets should view it as a gift.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by revischrist View Post
    I remember people saying that the giants wasted their pick on Pierre Paul since they were already deep at defensive line. Shocker that the public and media turned out to be wrong. It's amazing how many brilliant gms we have on this board and yet none of them will ever be given the chance to run an nfl team.
    And i remember people saying That Gholston was a wasted pick. Picking Coples is ballsy, If Rex and Tanny are wrong and he does not contribute at a high level the criticism will be deafening. As they added a pick to a top 5 defense while the offense may sputter.

    Yes, taking JPP instead of a LB was ballsy, it panned out for him, but if he was wrong he would have been hounded also.

    Fans are sometimes right and sometimes wrong, likewise with team front offices. Just because we do not have the same football acumen as them should not shield them from fans questioning their decisions.

    If you don't believe that why do you post on a football board?

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronxville Jets Fan View Post
    I really like our rookie draft class, but it's pretty absurd that an O-linemen wasn't taken until the sixth round given the team's overly apparent dearth of talent at that position group. Our current predicament with Hunter and lack of capable backups for the interior OL was completely foreseeable back in April and, as I'm sitting here anxiously waiting to hear news about some potential season-saving scrap-heap pickup, it completely blows my mind to think that more wasn't done to address this problem through the past draft. This has been vented on this board plenty already, I know. But to me, it all comes down to the Coples pick. EVERY other pick was used for a position of need (WR, LB, S, OG, RB, S, WR) so why neglect the most glaring hole on the roster? And how much worse off would our defense be without Coples this season? I venture to say not much; our offense, on the other hand, could have much better production with an early round draft pick replacement for Hunter.

    So, sorry, but I can't help but think we'd all be in better moods right now if Tanny found a way to spin the 16th pick into Riley Reiff or Cordy Glenn. I usually love upside in prospects like Coples, but upside may cost us this season.
    Talk to me in ten years. I predict that this will seem pretty silly then. Gotta think about the long term.

  16. #76
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    Ha, as I'm reading this I get message from my Bills friend - "super Mario can't wait to meet mr. Hunter"

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    And i remember people saying That Gholston was a wasted pick. Picking Coples is ballsy, If Rex and Tanny are wrong and he does not contribute at a high level the criticism will be deafening. As they added a pick to a top 5 defense while the offense may sputter.

    Yes, taking JPP instead of a LB was ballsy, it panned out for him, but if he was wrong he would have been hounded also.

    Fans are sometimes right and sometimes wrong, likewise with team front offices. Just because we do not have the same football acumen as them should not shield them from fans questioning their decisions.

    If you don't believe that why do you post on a football board?
    Were you on board with BB getting Johnson and Haynesworth??

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    And i remember people saying That Gholston was a wasted pick. Picking Coples is ballsy, If Rex and Tanny are wrong and he does not contribute at a high level the criticism will be deafening. As they added a pick to a top 5 defense while the offense may sputter.

    Yes, taking JPP instead of a LB was ballsy, it panned out for him, but if he was wrong he would have been hounded also.

    Fans are sometimes right and sometimes wrong, likewise with team front offices. Just because we do not have the same football acumen as them should not shield them from fans questioning their decisions.

    If you don't believe that why do you post on a football board?
    There is a myth out there that the Giants were going out on a limb by taking Pierre-Paul. They weren't. Jerry Reese has said several times that it was one of the easiest picks he's made. There was little bad film on the guy, the only problem was he'd only played a year of major college football. Someone in the media asked Jerry Reese after the draft about Pierre Paul being a high-risk pick. His response was, in a nutshell, that you didn't hear that from people in scouting and personnel and the only people calling him high-risk were fans and the media.

  19. #79
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    How's Bobby Massie looked? Drafted Davis over him bc his has the Revis, KendAl, agentS.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by lageman4ever View Post
    The risk management in this organization has not been that great. What if Sparano doesn't turn Hunter into a competent RT ? What then ? The FO didn't seem to have a contingency plan in place. Hence the panicked attempt to sign Otah.

    There's still time to have this all turn around if we can get a final cut OL who is decent. But betting the whole season on being able to get one is pretty reckless.
    I didn't see any panic in the Otah deal... actually it was surprisingly not panicked. He didn't pass the physical and they sent him back. Move on. This was a due diligence move.

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