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Thread: Let's face it: Coples was a luxury pick and we should have taken an OL in the first

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronxville Jets Fan View Post
    The Jets had needs all over the place, and the most glaring need was and remains OL. The Jets still managed to be a top 6 defense last season without a serious pass rush, meanwhile their offense sucked primarily because of poor OL play.
    Really? With Mangold, Ferguson and Moore? Wouldn't you have thought that a vertical threat WR was their most glaring need on offense before we drafted? And isn't that precisely what they did? RT should not be a high draft option with the above three anchors. Should it have been addressed? Yes. But again, I 'm not sure past Winston who was the magical player we failed to pursue in FA. A veteran preference will arrive. And besides, even if we had drafted a tackle in Round 3 instead of Davis, do you really think they would be starting? Davis was an excellent pick.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by k.Rhodes25 View Post
    A pass rusher is never a luxury pick and we had a bad pass rush...
    +1 It's essential - not a luxury - unless you already have a solid pass rush.

    Which we didn't.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    Were you on board with BB getting Johnson and Haynesworth??
    Yes, big time. The upside for a 5th and 2 6th rd choices to me made it a no brainer. I am wrong a lot more than right. I wanted Bass, they got mankins, I wanted Terrel, they got Seymour, I wanted Rivers, they got mayo, I wanted Cam Jordan, they got Solder, this year I wanted Mericlus and they picked Jones. I wanted Kendal Reyes and they picked Tavon Wilson. I thought Torrey Holt was going to be able to step right in. I did not want them to get Moss as I thought he was a locker room cancer.

    I don't let me being wrong stop me from having an opinion.:-{
    Last edited by patman; 08-23-2012 at 01:02 PM.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaSteve View Post
    And that would be our biggest mistake in decades if Rex is not here. Sorry Sar, this is one of the reasons this team stays in mediocrity; they change directions every time we don't win (or in Rex' case, every time you DON'T take your team to the AFC Championship)
    Keeping the same head coach for 10 seasons and stopping the revolving door is a wonderful concept so long as you find the right guy to hitch your horses to.

    Rex Ryan isn't that guy. He's a fantastic DC, that's it. The second-coming of Buddy Ryan, not Bill Walsh.

    SAR I

  5. #85
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    I disagree with OP. Coples is a good pick. A smart GM would've fixed the RT spot in FA. The Jets needed a solid/JAG vet at RT. Not another high-priced 1st round pick OLineman.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    Excuse me, but just because you disagree, does not mean I don't know what I am talking about.

    Ok, you said that Coples started at de in a 4-3 set and I seen Pace with his hand down with the 1s.

    I never said that Coples was not going to play a significant role, AND SAID THAT I WOULD HAVE PICKED HIM TOO.

    The OP inferred that the Olineman taken early were disappointing so far and I disagreed with him and gave him 3 examples why.
    You don't need to take football criticism from a poster who guaranteed the Jets 12 wins this season.

    SAR I

  7. #87
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    Agreed it was absurd we waited until the 6th to draft an OL. Don't agree drafting Coples was a "luxury". We want to have a dominant D to make up for the offense's shortcomings. Awesome pass rushers are at a premium in this league. Our front 7 is old. I really like the pick.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by chirorob View Post
    After the Super Bowl, every one was saying "why can't we have a front like the Giants, who hit the QB. No QB is good when he is on his back. Why don't we have a pass rush like that, wah wah wah."

    So, the Jets drafted the highest rated player on their board, who happens to play D-Line to rush the passer. Now, everyone says, "Why do we keep drafting D Linemen? Wah wah wah." Seriously, just hush. We took a big Wr in the second, and hopefully a fast LB in the 3rd to help cover tight ends and all those backs killing us out of the backfield.

    I like the draft. Yeah, we need a better O Line, but we also haven't been able to rush the QB without some crazy blitz in like, 20 years. So we kind of needed a pass rusher too. And next year, if the BPA is another DE to bookend Coples, then do that. Draft your Gastineau (with Brigit Nelson) to go opposite your Klecko. Speed up Tommy's retirement a few years, and see how many hits Peyton still wants to take.
    The Coples pick had nothing to do with the Giants or any 'trend'.

    We chose the wrong head coach who is employing the wrong strategy, trying to win a Super Bowl like the '85 Bears or '00 Ravens which happens 3 out of 47 tries.

    Those Bears and Ravens focused everything on the defense, had horrific offenses, and played a boring style of football that made fans insane.

    Sound familiar?

    SAR I

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Keeping the same head coach for 10 seasons and stopping the revolving door is a wonderful concept so long as you find the right guy to hitch your horses to.

    Rex Ryan isn't that guy. He's a fantastic DC, that's it. The second-coming of Buddy Ryan, not Bill Walsh.

    SAR I
    Who is your top choice replacement again?

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    The Coples pick had nothing to do with the Giants or any 'trend'.

    We chose the wrong head coach who is employing the wrong strategy, trying to win a Super Bowl like the '85 Bears or '00 Ravens which happens 3 out of 47 tries.

    Those Bears and Ravens focused everything on the defense, had horrific offenses, and played a boring style of football that made fans insane.

    Sound familiar?

    SAR I
    The Bears also had one of the greatest running backs ever and the Ravens had the best defense of all time. It's a fluky rare occurrence. I agree that building this way is stupid. The Steelers tried to do it for a decade. They were perennial contenders but never won a Super Bowl until they had a great passing game. BTW I'd also add the 2007 Giants to the list of teams that won without a prolific offense. Eli wasn't great yet.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    The Coples pick had nothing to do with the Giants or any 'trend'.

    We chose the wrong head coach who is employing the wrong strategy, trying to win a Super Bowl like the '85 Bears or '00 Ravens which happens 3 out of 47 tries.

    Those Bears and Ravens focused everything on the defense, had horrific offenses, and played a boring style of football that made fans insane.

    Sound familiar?

    SAR I
    what rex hasn't realized, is that a good offense and a good defense is much better overall than a great defense and a mediocre offense. you are as good as your weakest link most of the time, not your strongest.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetrider View Post
    Who is your top choice replacement again?
    Keeping someone who can't do the job isn't the answer, even if you can't think of an alternative. That's why the Mets suck so much.

    Jon Gruden and Bill Cowher have both won Super Bowls and would command locker room respect, but they were the answers last season when we were a win-now team.

    Since we're rebuilding, we need a young head coach who cut his teeth as a rookie on another team who our young roster can grow with. Lots of those out there to choose from. We had an owner who once did the impossible- stole the HC of the defending AFC Champions- and it made us a contender for 15 years.

    SAR I

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    Really? With Mangold, Ferguson and Moore? Wouldn't you have thought that a vertical threat WR was their most glaring need on offense before we drafted? And isn't that precisely what they did? RT should not be a high draft option with the above three anchors. Should it have been addressed? Yes. But again, I 'm not sure past Winston who was the magical player we failed to pursue in FA. A veteran preference will arrive. And besides, even if we had drafted a tackle in Round 3 instead of Davis, do you really think they would be starting? Davis was an excellent pick.

    I'm fine with the defensive talent the draft brought in. I think some very good (and maybe outstanding) players have been added to the Jets roster. But if the team wanted that flexibility to go BPA, they should have signed a FA tackle BEFORE the draft. Problem was outside of Eric Winston, the pickings were quite slim at RT.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Keeping someone who can't do the job isn't the answer, even if you can't think of an alternative. That's why the Mets suck so much.

    Jon Gruden and Bill Cowher have both won Super Bowls and would command locker room respect, but they were the answers last season when we were a win-now team.

    Since we're rebuilding, we need a young head coach who cut his teeth as a rookie on another team who our young roster can grow with. Lots of those out there to choose from. We had an owner who once did the impossible- stole the HC of the defending AFC Champions- and it made us a contender for 15 years.

    SAR I
    How long did it take Cowher to win a SB in Pitt(with much more talent than we have here)?

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piper View Post
    How long did it take Cowher to win a SB in Pitt(with much more talent than we have here)?
    Once they gave Cowher a big say in picking players, not long. He also competed against the Pats,Colts and Ravens when they were much better teams than they have been in the last 3 years. And for an owner who never went out and signed a big time FA to help him either.

    I like rex, but he is not Cowher on the field, on the chalk board or in the draft room.
    Last edited by patman; 08-23-2012 at 01:30 PM.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by lageman4ever View Post
    I'm fine with the defensive talent the draft brought in. I think some very good (and maybe outstanding) players have been added to the Jets roster. But if the team wanted that flexibility to go BPA, they should have signed a FA tackle BEFORE the draft. Problem was outside of Eric Winston, the pickings were quite slim at RT.
    Then we are in agreement. Would I have preserved that fourth pick or used it for a RT? Yes. I don't think Tebow is worth as much as a solid RT.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Keeping someone who can't do the job isn't the answer, even if you can't think of an alternative. That's why the Mets suck so much.

    Jon Gruden and Bill Cowher have both won Super Bowls and would command locker room respect, but they were the answers last season when we were a win-now team.

    Since we're rebuilding, we need a young head coach who cut his teeth as a rookie on another team who our young roster can grow with. Lots of those out there to choose from. We had an owner who once did the impossible- stole the HC of the defending AFC Champions- and it made us a contender for 15 years.

    SAR I
    One problem, Gruden said he has no desire to return to the sidelines, and Cowher said he wouldn't coach in NYC.

    You cry about setting the team back, then recommend something irresponsible like hiring a fresh unknown or another team's reject.

    That's not an upgrade over a guy who took us deep twice.

    Rex will get it done.

    Anybody that can look at himself in the mirror and drop 100 pounds has a tremendous amount of determination.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    Once they gave Cowher a big say in picking players, not long. He also competed against the Pats,Colts and Ravens when they were much better teams than they have been in the last 3 years. And for an owner who never went out and signed a big time FA to help him either.
    For all the cowher talk please dont forget he had a first ballot hall of fame defensive coordinator. Belichick was a "defensive expert" until he got a HOF QB. Rex is fine, he isnt the problem.

    The "we came out flat against Pitts" argument is so damn old. When NE got demolished by Balt, at home in the playoffs did that make Belichick a bad coach?

    Rex isnt perfect and there are things he can fix about his coaching etc but the key is he is improving. Having even more turnover of the staff for jon gruden isnt the solution, nor is finding a "young former HC...." If they are YOUNG and FORMER, then they obviously got fired, not sure how that is better then rex.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    Sorry, but this is sheer foolishness. Even from a need perspective, there is no way a RT is even close in value to a DE. If you wanted to argue that we should have drafted an OL in the 3rd instead of Davis I could see it, although I have the feeling given what was available, the Jets had Davis high on their board and saw him as a steal. And now we're talking about draft levels that almost never convert to immediate starters. Coples was a tremendous pick and is far more than a "good" player.
    I don't think you read my post. Never said anything about need. I said an argument could be made that Decastro was the Best Available Player when we picked. Nearly every mock draft and prospect ranking you can find will have Decastro above or near Coples.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    Then we are in agreement. Would I have preserved that fourth pick or used it for a RT? Yes. I don't think Tebow is worth as much as a solid RT.
    A fourth round pick would probably have been just good enough. Bobby Massie was available there and he's currently in the hunt for a starting role at RT for Arizona.

    A JAG RT would be worth 10x what Tebow brings to our offense (and maybe even more to the overall team since the Jets would avoid the whole circus atmosphere and QB controversies).

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