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Thread: Let's face it: Coples was a luxury pick and we should have taken an OL in the first

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronxville Jets Fan View Post
    I really like our rookie draft class, but it's pretty absurd that an O-linemen wasn't taken until the sixth round given the team's overly apparent dearth of talent at that position group. Our current predicament with Hunter and lack of capable backups for the interior OL was completely foreseeable back in April and, as I'm sitting here anxiously waiting to hear news about some potential season-saving scrap-heap pickup, it completely blows my mind to think that more wasn't done to address this problem through the past draft. This has been vented on this board plenty already, I know. But to me, it all comes down to the Coples pick. EVERY other pick was used for a position of need (WR, LB, S, OG, RB, S, WR) so why neglect the most glaring hole on the roster? And how much worse off would our defense be without Coples this season? I venture to say not much; our offense, on the other hand, could have much better production with an early round draft pick replacement for Hunter.

    So, sorry, but I can't help but think we'd all be in better moods right now if Tanny found a way to spin the 16th pick into Riley Reiff or Cordy Glenn. I usually love upside in prospects like Coples, but upside may cost us this season.
    This is beyond stupid. Coples was not a luxury pick. We needed an inside pass rush. Look at the teams that give Brady trouble; the Giants, the Steelers and the Ravens. They all have big physical defensive lines. In addition with the 16th pick in the draft, you do not reach you pick the best available player.

  2. #22
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    Jets needed a pass rush. If they took OL, you'd be arguing they did nothing to address the lack of pass rush,and should have drafted a DE at 16.

  3. #23
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    The defense that Rex is putting together will not be complete until we begin to truly rush the passer. Not a luxury pick, a smart pick

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    I think Coples will be a good player. That said, an argument could easily be made that Decastro was BPA where we picked. And we used the previous year's 1st on a defensive linemen.
    Sorry, but this is sheer foolishness. Even from a need perspective, there is no way a RT is even close in value to a DE. If you wanted to argue that we should have drafted an OL in the 3rd instead of Davis I could see it, although I have the feeling given what was available, the Jets had Davis high on their board and saw him as a steal. And now we're talking about draft levels that almost never convert to immediate starters. Coples was a tremendous pick and is far more than a "good" player.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRONX JET View Post
    The defense that Rex is putting together will not be complete until we begin to truly rush the passer. Not a luxury pick, a smart pick
    Rex won't be here next year and our OL will still suck. Our D was Top 10 without a pass rush, our offense Bottom 10 without playmakers and linemen.

    Those are the reasons Coples was a luxury pick.

    SAR I

  6. #26
    I know the Jets don't have one so it seems like a big deal but Right Tackles are not that hard to find. Try finding a great pass-rusher. I'm not saying Coples is that guy but if the Jets felt he was, it should have been an easy pick.

    I know you all want to win now but the draft is about three to seven years down the road, not this season.

  7. #27
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    I think the truth is that we had more holes to fill than we had draft picks ... so something had to lose out. As we're looking like playing more 4-3 than last year, D line got another injection, and fingers were crossed that Hunter would "step it up".

    (As a scary aside - we have as many 1st round picks on our O line as we do at ... QB! )

  8. #28
    Successful teams never draft on need, they take the best player available.

    Ask Jerry Reese how he feels about taking JPP after they arleady spent money on canty, osi and drafted tuck? Pretty sure the BPA worked out there.

    Also, look at the Olineman from the first round of this draft.

    Mike Adams - Struggling big time.
    Decastro - starting, but isnt a RT, and is far from dominating.
    Reiff - Cant beat out Jeff Backus or Cherilus

    If you want to argue that we should have taken Mitchell Schwarts or Jonathon Martin in the second instead of Hill, fine, as both those players are starting at RT for their respective teams. But we need "playmakers" and IMO taking a guy with Hills upside at a position we need is far more important then having mitchell schwartz. Jonathon Martin isnt making any pro bowls....Hill at least has a TON of upside.

    I also doubt there is a single person on this board that would rather have a lineman over Demario Davis.

    The only area where we could have solidified the line is if we took Massie with the 4th round pick that we used for tebow.

  9. #29
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    Good post eagle.

    All things considered, I would rather have Massie than Tebow.

  10. #30
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    Seriously guys, we can't have a 1st round draft pick at every position on the line. At some point these guys need to do their job. Hunter obviously fails miserably. But it comes down to coaching and getting solid contributors. If the Jets are lacking this then whoever is scouting and gathering the talent needs a kick in the ass.

    We already have 2 1st rounders and 20 million/per year tied up in 2 of those positions. Both are Pro Bowl players, one is All Pro on a HOF track. If the Jets can't anchor behind that then someone needs to be fired because that's just horrible coaching.
    You can't be a G&P team with an average or below average OL, which is what we have right now because the position group has been neglected in the draft for a while now. Yes, we have two first rounders on the OL, but that was like six years ago and what else is there? A couple sixth rounders and UDFAs. Meanwhile our DL has two first rounders and two third rounders, so I'm not buying your argument that the OL has gotten its fair share of draft picks. We're also a year away of needing possibly two new starting OGs with Slauson and Moore, both of whose health has been in question since last season, heading for FA. And are you honestly complacent with OL backups? There's zero depth there.

    So the point I'm making is the Jets didn't have the luxury of going BPA this year given the glaring holes on the OL, particularly when you're as tight up against the cap as the Jets were (and still are). BPA is also a flexible concept that targets needs more than we realize -- as I said before, every other Jet pick addressed a need. You can also avoid "reaches" by trading down, which Pittsburgh reportedly wanted the Jets to do with their 16th pick but we declined on order to get Coples. (So, really, we could have had Reiff and an extra 3rd or 4th rounder instead of Coples.).

    I hope the Coples pick proves to be an astute choice, I really do. But I can't help but question the logic right now.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Good post eagle.

    All things considered, I would rather have Massie than Tebow.
    Couldnt agree more. Maybe tebow will bring something to the team that we all cant see now....but the way the draft fell, we could be looking at 4 contributing players from our first 4 picks starting players (coples and davis in select packages) which would be an unprecedented haul of draft picks.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big L View Post
    Jets needed a pass rush. If they took OL, you'd be arguing they did nothing to address the lack of pass rush,and should have drafted a DE at 16.
    The Jets had needs all over the place, and the most glaring need was and remains OL. The Jets still managed to be a top 6 defense last season without a serious pass rush, meanwhile their offense sucked primarily because of poor OL play.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Successful teams never draft on need, they take the best player available.

    Ask Jerry Reese how he feels about taking JPP after they arleady spent money on canty, osi and drafted tuck? Pretty sure the BPA worked out there.

    Also, look at the Olineman from the first round of this draft.

    Mike Adams - Struggling big time.
    Decastro - starting, but isnt a RT, and is far from dominating.
    Reiff - Cant beat out Jeff Backus or Cherilus

    If you want to argue that we should have taken Mitchell Schwarts or Jonathon Martin in the second instead of Hill, fine, as both those players are starting at RT for their respective teams. But we need "playmakers" and IMO taking a guy with Hills upside at a position we need is far more important then having mitchell schwartz. Jonathon Martin isnt making any pro bowls....Hill at least has a TON of upside.

    I also doubt there is a single person on this board that would rather have a lineman over Demario Davis.

    The only area where we could have solidified the line is if we took Massie with the 4th round pick that we used for tebow.
    My preference, in hindsight, would have been to trade down and take Glenn. And, I get the BPA argument, but it's many times adapted to your needs. Pittsburgh was in our position last year with poor OL play and an aging defense and they went out and took OL with their first two picks. They clearly went into the draft prioritizing the OL and stacked their board accordingly.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Successful teams never draft on need, they take the best player available.

    Ask Jerry Reese how he feels about taking JPP after they arleady spent money on canty, osi and drafted tuck? Pretty sure the BPA worked out there.

    Also, look at the Olineman from the first round of this draft.

    Mike Adams - Struggling big time.
    Decastro - starting, but isnt a RT, and is far from dominating.
    Reiff - Cant beat out Jeff Backus or Cherilus

    If you want to argue that we should have taken Mitchell Schwarts or Jonathon Martin in the second instead of Hill, fine, as both those players are starting at RT for their respective teams. But we need "playmakers" and IMO taking a guy with Hills upside at a position we need is far more important then having mitchell schwartz. Jonathon Martin isnt making any pro bowls....Hill at least has a TON of upside.

    I also doubt there is a single person on this board that would rather have a lineman over Demario Davis.

    The only area where we could have solidified the line is if we took Massie with the 4th round pick that we used for tebow.
    That is something I have been preaching about since the draft. If not Massie, the Jets could have drafted Orson Charles, a good all around TE that I think could have really helped the offense, also Nick Toon was there. Adding Hill with Toon would have been a nice infusion of youth to the WRs.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    We know Hunter sucks. Brick is the one we need to pay attention to. He has another down year and all of a sudden we have major holes on the OL with both Moore and Slauson entering FA.
    I'm guessing Moore and Slauson will be gone next year ... that Hunter will be gone is a given. This is the make or break year for Ducasse at guard, I am guessing he surprises everyone and makes it at guard. Brick is going no where whatever his deficiencies. Here's hoping Howard at right tackle and Griffin/Schlauderaff at guard can cut it next year.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronxville Jets Fan View Post
    The Jets had needs all over the place, and the most glaring need was and remains RT.

    ... this is accurate ...

    ... the draft was excellent however ...

    ... the poster who stated after the draft in FA or a trade is where we needed to address RT and this is correct ...

    ... the FO believed Sparano would be able to fix hunters issues ... this did not work ... they tried to not mortgage any future picks or cap $$$ and this has turned out to be a mistake ...






    l_j_r

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    No one wants to say it?? FINE - I will, once again, bring da truth..


    All you O-line over Coples jackals... your boy DeCastro has been flat out average. At best. Horrible pick!! Shoulda taken double DD!! DeCastro is my father!!... feel like popping my collar.

    So put away your horns. Coples was the BPA and a freak. Kearse without Kearse's knees.
    First it is much tougher learning curve on the oline vs dline. The dline is pretty much a "go sic um" position. I thought couples was a good pick and still do

    Decastro is starting, Glenn is starting, Couples is not. Decastro had a bad 1st week in practice, but so did couples, that is why Rex took him of the 1st string an had him playing with the 2s. . Reif is playing behind Backus and will start next year when Backus does hang it up, similar to Light and Solder and Kevin Zeitler looked solid both against the Jets and Falcons. Your happy with Coples, fine. But don't minimize the contributions that were had by the olineman taken.


    The Jets had a playoff caliber Defense last year, the offense struggled. They spent more resources on the defense than offense and they have for years.
    The question should be when will they quit spending all the resources and money on the d and let the offense wither. Why spend 3 picks on sanchez
    if your not going to give him some tools.

    This best BPA is not some hard and fast rule. If you have a position of strength and a player is graded at a 90 and and a player at a position of need is graded at a 88 you take the 88. if the delta is that great you trade down and get the right value there.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronxville Jets Fan View Post
    My preference, in hindsight, would have been to trade down and take Glenn. And, I get the BPA argument, but it's many times adapted to your needs. Pittsburgh was in our position last year with poor OL play and an aging defense and they went out and took OL with their first two picks. They clearly went into the draft prioritizing the OL and stacked their board accordingly.
    The pittsburgh situation you reference is exactly why it is way too early for this discussion.

    Yes Pitts had OLine issues and they ATTEMPTED to address them, but lets look at the whole situation.

    Pitts will open 2012 with the same Tackles they opened 2011 with, as adams is far from ready to contribute. I think decastro will be a good player, and im sure so does pitts. Now, what about their aging defense? Harrison is out and worldis is hurt, so they are now starting someone with limited epxerience. If their pass rush falls of causing the defense to struggle, what will people say if perry or mercilus have great years?

    We have aging LBs and the league is moving towards defenses that pressure with 4 guys, play 2 LBs that can cover and play the run, and 5 Dbs....and that is how we structured our draft.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    First it is much tougher learning curve on the oline vs dline. The dline is pretty much a "go sic um" position. I thought couples was a good pick and still do

    Decastro is starting, Glenn is starting, Couples is not. Decastro had a bad 1st week in practice, but so did couples, that is why Rex took him of the 1st string an had him playing with the 2s. . Reif is playing behind Backus and will start next year when Backus does hang it up, similar to Light and Solder and Kevin Zeitler looked solid both against the Jets and Falcons. Your happy with Coples, fine. But don't minimize the contributions that were had by the olineman taken.


    The Jets had a playoff caliber Defense last year, the offense struggled. They spent more resources on the defense than offense and they have for years.
    The question should be when will they quit spending all the resources and money on the d and let the offense wither. Why spend 3 picks on sanchez
    if your not going to give him some tools.

    This best BPA is not some hard and fast rule. If you have a position of strength and a player is graded at a 90 and and a player at a position of need is graded at a 88 you take the 88. if the delta is that great you trade down and get the right value there.
    First, I dont think any of us KNOW how the Jets graded out any of these rookies before the draft. Second, reaching and drafting for need in the first round is a terrible philosophy. Plus, its not like a guy like Coples WASN'T a need either. Look at the Giants, they keep drafting pass rushers even though it wasnt a "need". Finally, the whole trade down thing always sounds like the "smart" move, except you need a trading partner and you need to get value for doing so. To simply say just trade down because there isnt anyone of need is a pretty naive statement.

  20. #40
    I love the potential of Coples and what he brings to the Jets. I think our 4 man front will transform our base defense and allow a lot of flexibility for different schemes. And I do think the potential is there for Coples to be a special player (especially under Rex's guidance).

    That being said, if the Jets decide that route Tannenbaum has to be on the phone 5 minutes after the draft getting some experienced OL in here, either through FA or trade.

    Tanny did bring in a couple of re-tread OL but they didn't even make it half way through camp. It was a piss-poor effort at a position of tremendous need for the Jets. And the team could pay the price for Tannenbaum's ineffectiveness all season.

    Tannenbaum's only chance at salvation would be to pull a rabbit out of the hat before game 1 (or, maybe a more appropriate analogy, pull a RT out of his ***).

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