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Thread: Let's face it: Coples was a luxury pick and we should have taken an OL in the first

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    First it is much tougher learning curve on the oline vs dline. The dline is pretty much a "go sic um" position. I thought couples was a good pick and still do

    Decastro is starting, Glenn is starting, Couples is not. Decastro had a bad 1st week in practice, but so did couples, that is why Rex took him of the 1st string an had him playing with the 2s. . Reif is playing behind Backus and will start next year when Backus does hang it up, similar to Light and Solder and Kevin Zeitler looked solid both against the Jets and Falcons. Your happy with Coples, fine. But don't minimize the contributions that were had by the olineman taken.


    The Jets had a playoff caliber Defense last year, the offense struggled. They spent more resources on the defense than offense and they have for years.
    The question should be when will they quit spending all the resources and money on the d and let the offense wither. Why spend 3 picks on sanchez
    if your not going to give him some tools.

    This best BPA is not some hard and fast rule. If you have a position of strength and a player is graded at a 90 and and a player at a position of need is graded at a 88 you take the 88. if the delta is that great you trade down and get the right value there.
    Ridiculous response, im not minimizng anyones contributions.

    Coples isnt starting because devito and wilkerson are very good players in front of him. Decastro and cordy glenn are starting because they had NO ONE in front of them.

    I agree the team has drafted defense over offense....should we have passed on wlkerson?

    Its amazing the criticism. DE/pass rush is BY FAR the most important area of a football team after QB, as evidenced by the Giants whipping the pats in 2 SBs...so we go out and take a stud DE who so far seems to be a good player, and people here are saying we should have taken a guard.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    No one wants to say it?? FINE - I will, once again, bring da truth..


    All you O-line over Coples jackals... your boy DeCastro has been flat out average. At best. Horrible pick!! Shoulda taken double DD!! DeCastro is my father!!... feel like popping my collar.

    So put away your horns. Coples was the BPA and a freak. Kearse without Kearse's knees.
    Can somebody translate this post for me please?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    Can somebody translate this post for me please?
    "Oh stewardess I speak jive"

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    Best Player Available.

    I don't care who it is. You take the best player. Never draft for need unless BPA also happens to be the area of need. This is how the Giants built their dominant pass rush. Kept drafting DEs even though they had the bases covered because those players just so happened to be the BPA.
    This.

    When you start drafting for needs, you end up with the Vernon Gholstons of the world.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    Why spend 3 picks on sanchez
    ... fyi - it was a swap of 1's, our 2nd rounder, & 3 scrub players ...


    ... the coples pick was definitely the right move in this years draft ... passrush was a problem issue for us ...

    ... the FO hoped sparano would be able to fix hunter ... this was unsuccessful ... unfortunately until they saw him live they could not know if this gamble would pay off or not ... now they know it was a big failure ... options for a stop-gap RT are limited ... hopefully a servicable JAG comes free in the next 2 weeks ...






    l_j_r

  6. #46
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    You know who drafts for need? The ****ing Dolphins. The mother ****ing Dolphins. No thanks.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    Can somebody translate this post for me please?
    He likes Coples. He thinks Coples is good.

    And you should put away your horns.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Rex won't be here next year and our OL will still suck.

    SAR I
    And that would be our biggest mistake in decades if Rex is not here. Sorry Sar, this is one of the reasons this team stays in mediocrity; they change directions every time we don't win (or in Rex' case, every time you DON'T take your team to the AFC Championship)

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    First it is much tougher learning curve on the oline vs dline. The dline is pretty much a "go sic um" position. I thought couples was a good pick and still do

    Decastro is starting, Glenn is starting, Couples is not. Decastro had a bad 1st week in practice, but so did couples, that is why Rex took him of the 1st string an had him playing with the 2s. . Reif is playing behind Backus and will start next year when Backus does hang it up, similar to Light and Solder and Kevin Zeitler looked solid both against the Jets and Falcons. Your happy with Coples, fine. But don't minimize the contributions that were had by the olineman taken.


    The Jets had a playoff caliber Defense last year, the offense struggled. They spent more resources on the defense than offense and they have for years.
    The question should be when will they quit spending all the resources and money on the d and let the offense wither. Why spend 3 picks on sanchez
    if your not going to give him some tools.

    This best BPA is not some hard and fast rule. If you have a position of strength and a player is graded at a 90 and and a player at a position of need is graded at a 88 you take the 88. if the delta is that great you trade down and get the right value there.
    You continue to post about the Jets and not know what you're talking about.

    First, Coples is starting when the team plays a base 4-3, which they will be doing a lot more this year, he will also be playing whether they are in 3-4 or 4-3 on pass rushing downs, Coples is going to play a lot, this much is evident already this pre-season.

    Second, you say the Jets didn't invest in the offense, the team wanted to move up in the first round for a shot at Hill, they still got him in the high 2nd round, they drafted a 2nd WR later in the draft, as well as a RB. They traded for Tebow, YES, I included him because whether people believe it or not, he IS going to help the offense, AND Sanchez. They have a playera t TE they are high on in the passing game in double TE sets in Cumblerland.

    If you're going to comment on the Jets, know what the hell you are talking about.

  10. #50
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    Was never a big fan of Devitos so DE was a big need IMO. When your biggest issue on D is you can't get pressure up front that needs to be addressed. None of the OL on the board was worth that pick. Maybe if we traded back but yeah I agree with most of the posts here BPA is always the way to go. If you have a shot at a guy like Coples and pass for a much lesser talent to fill a need it never ends good. The draft we had was stacked with BPAs and I have no issues with that at all. You think the Giants pass on JPP because they have Osi, Tuck, and Kiwi?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    Best Player Available.

    I don't care who it is. You take the best player. Never draft for need unless BPA also happens to be the area of need. This is how the Giants built their dominant pass rush. Kept drafting DEs even though they had the bases covered because those players just so happened to be the BPA.
    i agree. this is tanny's best draft in 5 yrs.

    the problem, though, is that in the past 3 drafts, they've taken a defensive guy in the first round and only 1 offensive skill position in the first 2 rounds. that's why the defense is ahead of the offense.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    You continue to post about the Jets and not know what you're talking about.

    First, Coples is starting when the team plays a base 4-3, which they will be doing a lot more this year, he will also be playing whether they are in 3-4 or 4-3 on pass rushing downs, Coples is going to play a lot, this much is evident already this pre-season.

    Second, you say the Jets didn't invest in the offense, the team wanted to move up in the first round for a shot at Hill, they still got him in the high 2nd round, they drafted a 2nd WR later in the draft, as well as a RB. They traded for Tebow, YES, I included him because whether people believe it or not, he IS going to help the offense, AND Sanchez. They have a playera t TE they are high on in the passing game in double TE sets in Cumblerland.

    If you're going to comment on the Jets, know what the hell you are talking about.
    Excuse me, but just because you disagree, does not mean I don't know what I am talking about.

    Ok, you said that Coples started at de in a 4-3 set and I seen Pace with his hand down with the 1s.

    I never said that Coples was not going to play a significant role, AND SAID THAT I WOULD HAVE PICKED HIM TOO.

    The OP inferred that the Olineman taken early were disappointing so far and I disagreed with him and gave him 3 examples why.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    First it is much tougher learning curve on the oline vs dline. The dline is pretty much a "go sic um" position. I thought couples was a good pick and still do

    Decastro is starting, Glenn is starting, Couples is not. Decastro had a bad 1st week in practice, but so did couples, that is why Rex took him of the 1st string an had him playing with the 2s. . Reif is playing behind Backus and will start next year when Backus does hang it up, similar to Light and Solder and Kevin Zeitler looked solid both against the Jets and Falcons. Your happy with Coples, fine. But don't minimize the contributions that were had by the olineman taken.


    The Jets had a playoff caliber Defense last year, the offense struggled. They spent more resources on the defense than offense and they have for years.
    The question should be when will they quit spending all the resources and money on the d and let the offense wither. Why spend 3 picks on sanchez
    if your not going to give him some tools.

    This best BPA is not some hard and fast rule. If you have a position of strength and a player is graded at a 90 and and a player at a position of need is graded at a 88 you take the 88. if the delta is that great you trade down and get the right value there.
    This is what happens when you have other teams fans commenting on the Jets. Coples is starting in the 4-3 packages, and he has been getting time in the pre-season against other teams 1's and while not completly lighting them up like he is when the 2nd stringers come on, he is getting good amounts of pressure and seems to be a good run stopper. So please, don't comment on things you didn't do your research on.

    This thread is ridiculous, Coples was a top 10 maybe top 5 talent before everything happened at North Carolina, talk about a steal.

  14. #54
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    After the Super Bowl, every one was saying "why can't we have a front like the Giants, who hit the QB. No QB is good when he is on his back. Why don't we have a pass rush like that, wah wah wah."

    So, the Jets drafted the highest rated player on their board, who happens to play D-Line to rush the passer. Now, everyone says, "Why do we keep drafting D Linemen? Wah wah wah." Seriously, just hush. We took a big Wr in the second, and hopefully a fast LB in the 3rd to help cover tight ends and all those backs killing us out of the backfield.

    I like the draft. Yeah, we need a better O Line, but we also haven't been able to rush the QB without some crazy blitz in like, 20 years. So we kind of needed a pass rusher too. And next year, if the BPA is another DE to bookend Coples, then do that. Draft your Gastineau (with Brigit Nelson) to go opposite your Klecko. Speed up Tommy's retirement a few years, and see how many hits Peyton still wants to take.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by chirorob View Post
    After the Super Bowl, every one was saying "why can't we have a front like the Giants, who hit the QB. No QB is good when he is on his back. Why don't we have a pass rush like that, wah wah wah."

    So, the Jets drafted the highest rated player on their board, who happens to play D-Line to rush the passer. Now, everyone says, "Why do we keep drafting D Linemen? Wah wah wah." Seriously, just hush. We took a big Wr in the second, and hopefully a fast LB in the 3rd to help cover tight ends and all those backs killing us out of the backfield.

    I like the draft. Yeah, we need a better O Line, but we also haven't been able to rush the QB without some crazy blitz in like, 20 years. So we kind of needed a pass rusher too. And next year, if the BPA is another DE to bookend Coples, then do that. Draft your Gastineau (with Brigit Nelson) to go opposite your Klecko. Speed up Tommy's retirement a few years, and see how many hits Peyton still wants to take.
    jerry reese, the giants gm, was asked after this year's draft why he took so many offensive players. his simple response was 'we took the best available player each time.' i think tanny did that this year. i hope he's 'learned his lessons' of burning draft picks.

    the problem the jets have, is that b/c they didn't draft for need, and didn't have the $$ to sign top FAs, they still need a RT. but overall, tanny's philosophy was great this year. if he drafts like that every year the team will improve markedly. i think they found at least 4 starters in this draft class, with the top 3 picks and 1 of the safeties. that's fantastic.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    First it is much tougher learning curve on the oline vs dline. The dline is pretty much a "go sic um" position. I thought couples was a good pick and still do

    Decastro is starting, Glenn is starting, Couples is not. Decastro had a bad 1st week in practice, but so did couples, that is why Rex took him of the 1st string an had him playing with the 2s. . Reif is playing behind Backus and will start next year when Backus does hang it up, similar to Light and Solder and Kevin Zeitler looked solid both against the Jets and Falcons. Your happy with Coples, fine. But don't minimize the contributions that were had by the olineman taken.


    The Jets had a playoff caliber Defense last year, the offense struggled. They spent more resources on the defense than offense and they have for years.
    The question should be when will they quit spending all the resources and money on the d and let the offense wither. Why spend 3 picks on sanchez
    if your not going to give him some tools.
    Actually, they have spent alot of resources on O.

    2 first rounders on O line.
    1 high first on QB
    tradeup first round on TE
    Trade 2 picks for WR
    Trade picks for another WR
    Trade up high 3rd for RB
    Trade pick for Wildcat guy

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Ridiculous response, im not minimizng anyones contributions.

    Coples isnt starting because devito and wilkerson are very good players in front of him. Decastro and cordy glenn are starting because they had NO ONE in front of them.

    I agree the team has drafted defense over offense....should we have passed on wlkerson?

    Its amazing the criticism. DE/pass rush is BY FAR the most important area of a football team after QB, as evidenced by the Giants whipping the pats in 2 SBs...so we go out and take a stud DE who so far seems to be a good player, and people here are saying we should have taken a guard.
    What part of me thinking Coples was a good pick, are people having a problem understanding?.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    Best Player Available.

    I don't care who it is. You take the best player. Never draft for need unless BPA also happens to be the area of need. This is how the Giants built their dominant pass rush. Kept drafting DEs even though they had the bases covered because those players just so happened to be the BPA.
    It's not just that. The Jets are going to be facing some tough personnel decisions next offseason, when something like 8 starters are free agents (Slauson, Moore, Greene, Keller, DeVito, Landry, Bell, and, if you count him as a starter, Maybin), and Revis to lock up long term. They won't have the ability to resign them all or replace them all in FA, so they are planning for the future.

    DeVito is likely gone, because Coples will be his replacement. Keller is likely gone, because Cumberland will be his replacement. Moore is likely gone, with Vlad as the replacement.

    That leaves Slauson, Greene, both safeties and Maybin to resign or replace in the draft or FA. Slauson is probably a relatively easy resign; he's a decent but not tremendous player at a non-premium position (if not, they let him go and resign Moore). Greene is probably easy to let walk unless he comes cheap; he's a good but not great RB whose game is power, not speed, and you don't give those players large second contracts. Landry, if he has a good year, likely gets franchised to give us a second year of seeing if he can stay healthy before we lock into him long term (it's him or Maybin, and the franchise tag for a safety is a lot more cap friendly than the linebacker tag). We look to do a long term deal with Maybin, maybe bring Bell back on a one year contract, and look for a replacement RT, upgrade at S, a RB, and an OG to compete with Vlad in the draft and FA.

    Of all those players we are likely letting go, the one who we didn't already have even a potential replacement for on the roster was DeVito. With Coples on the board, BPA in his own right and filling one of the holes we would need to be plugging in 2013 anyway (and without any assurance of doing it as cost-effectively or with as talented a player), the pick made perfect sense.

    Absent someone at another position who is head and shoulders above the crowd, and assuming we manage the resignings identified above, I'd expect next year's draft to go: OT, S/RB, S/RB, BPA from there

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronxville Jets Fan View Post
    I really like our rookie draft class, but it's pretty absurd that an O-linemen wasn't taken until the sixth round given the team's overly apparent dearth of talent at that position group. Our current predicament with Hunter and lack of capable backups for the interior OL was completely foreseeable back in April and, as I'm sitting here anxiously waiting to hear news about some potential season-saving scrap-heap pickup, it completely blows my mind to think that more wasn't done to address this problem through the past draft. This has been vented on this board plenty already, I know. But to me, it all comes down to the Coples pick. EVERY other pick was used for a position of need (WR, LB, S, OG, RB, S, WR) so why neglect the most glaring hole on the roster? And how much worse off would our defense be without Coples this season? I venture to say not much; our offense, on the other hand, could have much better production with an early round draft pick replacement for Hunter.

    So, sorry, but I can't help but think we'd all be in better moods right now if Tanny found a way to spin the 16th pick into Riley Reiff or Cordy Glenn. I usually love upside in prospects like Coples, but upside may cost us this season.
    Hang on. There will be some players available shortly and even if there isn't a serviceable OL available I suspect Rex and Tanny will start looking towards a trade. They might have to pay more than they want at this juncture but they are not going into the season with Hunter.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by chirorob View Post
    Actually, they have spent alot of resources on O.

    2 first rounders on O line.
    1 high first on QB
    tradeup first round on TE
    Trade 2 picks for WR
    Trade picks for another WR
    Trade up high 3rd for RB
    Trade pick for Wildcat guy
    so, in the last three drafts since 2009 season in which the jets were ranked #1 in overall defense the jets took in the first 4 rds - Ducasse, Hill and Mckniight 12 spots -3 players none higher than mid 2nd.

    I know you mentioned Tebow, but I still honestly believe that was more of a PR signing than an honest attempt at shoring up the Offense.

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