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Thread: Darrelle Revis: Not Enough Done to Support Mark Sanchez

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    You have to come back to us a little.

    In 2011 they did little to help him. In 2012 they have done nothing to help him.

    But in his first two years I think he had a pretty decent situation. Not perfect. But not David Carr either. The #1 and #4 running game IS a big bonus for a young QB. Not sure if you would find a QB to disagree with that.

    So to say "NOTHING" is a bit strong if we are talking about his career as a whole. But to use the word to describe 2012, it would be accurate. He has basically gotten sabotaged this year.
    This is a very fair post and IMO very accurate!!!

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    You have to come back to us a little.

    In 2011 they did little to help him. In 2012 they have done nothing to help him.

    But in his first two years I think he had a pretty decent situation. Not perfect. But not David Carr either. The #1 and #4 running game IS a big bonus for a young QB. Not sure if you would find a QB to disagree with that.

    So to say "NOTHING" is a bit strong if we are talking about his career as a whole. But to use the word to describe 2012, it would be accurate. He has basically gotten sabotaged this year.
    And in his first two years we went to the AFC Championship game.

    How about you come back to us little?

    _

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    And in his first two years we went to the AFC Championship game.

    How about you come back to us little?

    _
    Why do I have to come back? I like it where I am.

  4. #44
    "I don't really know how this is going to pan out. I just hope that they do what they need to do on offense. And not to divide this -- I'm supporting those guys. I think the only thing you can do is be supportive. Right now it's still preseason."
    My favorite quote and all you really need to know about this cast of characters.

    Look, do I want Sanchez to succeed? Of course I do. They have a lot tied up in him and while they have not given him the number 1 ground game and an "elite" receiver to work with you all seem to forget they signed Holmes to a huge deal two years ago. At the time none of you were saying that he's not "elite" or that he cant get the job done. It's all revisionist history.

    Players get paid to perform. Sanchez re-structured to get more guaranteed upfront and to lessen the cap blow this year. We have other players on this team making big money and, unfortunately, the cap restricts what we can do. Management bet that Sanchez would develop without a number 1 running game and, frankly, I dont think anyone of us have seen him take that next step. A QB can make his receivers better and open up room for his run game. To date, Mark Sanchez has not been able to do either of those things for us.

  5. #45
    The Jets have always coddled Sanchez and to think anything otherwise is ludicrous.

    Last season was really the first time in Sanchez's career that he was asked to overcome some SLIGHT problem areas. RT being probably the largest one. It should have been easy for Sanchez. I'm sorry to tell all the Sanchez apologists that he wasn't running for his life on every single play last season.

    However, based on what everyone has seen in the preseason, RT has become a huge problem. It just simply isn't giving Sanchez a decent chance at lifting his performance. That's why I believe NOW and never at any time prior to this that Sanchez isn't being given a fair shake.

    This is a make or break season for Sanchez. I would really love for him to succeed and at least become a decent QB. I know he'll never be any better than an average to slightly above average. The problem is with this OL, he may get injured before he's been given a fair shot to sink or swim.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Why do I have to come back? I like it where I am.
    You told ME I have to come back to you--I REALLY like where I am.



    _

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    This is so pfailingly great, I don't know what to say.

    So basically his talent has eroded every year, the talent around him sucks, but he just has "to find a way".

    Great players, especially great QBs make the sh*t around them better.

    Classic.

    Hey Sanchez, just be...great...and...get'er done.

    Amirite?!?

    Wow.

    _
    Holmes sucks? Keller sucks? Holmes was horrible last year...Big time QB's would kill to have a talent like Holmes even though he's a pain in the ass. Look at Holmes garbage numbers last year, some of that blame is on Mark. I'm basically saying Mark can't be the turnover machine he was last year. We have some playmakers. Mark's job is to get the best out of them and thus far in his career he hasn't made the play makers better. They have made him.
    Last edited by LockeJET; 08-23-2012 at 08:36 PM.

  8. #48
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    Stokes - Look what Manning did to Collie and Garcon. Look at the garabge QB's that Keyshawn played with over the years yet he always put up numbers and made sick grabs, etc etc....Plenty if big time QB's have taken avg talent and put up fantastic numbers with minimal turnovers. That's what I mean by Sanchez finding his way.

    Great players find a way to make players around them better and somehow at the end of the day put up great numbers..

    Stop with the Excuses!
    Last edited by LockeJET; 08-23-2012 at 08:37 PM.

  9. #49
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    Manning and Brady might be the only 2 QBs that are able to do that. Not fair to compare to them. They are historical figures.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Manning and Brady might be the only 2 QBs that are able to do that. Not fair to compare to them. They are historical figures.
    Thats not true at all.. Many big time QB's have taken avg wideouts and made them into damn good players and put up fantastic numbers with them.

    I want Mark to be great. Is that too much to ask for? And great QB's make recievers and TE's better.

  11. #51
    Revis sees the big picture. With Sanchez running for his life, and changing out receivers every season, how can he develop any chemistry with anyone. There is very little productive talent on the o. This is going to be a long season. You think it was ugly when Santinio flipped out last season, it will happen a lot quicker. Tanny and Rex are totally lost when it comes to the o.

  12. #52
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    Is Derrick Mason available? That almost worked out last time.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by LockeJET View Post
    Stokes - Look what Manning did to Collie and Garcon. Look at the garabge QB's that Keyshawn played with over the years yet he always put up numbers and made sick grabs, etc etc....Plenty if big time QB's have taken avg talent and put up fantastic numbers with minimal turnovers. That's what I mean by Sanchez finding his way.

    Great players find a way to make players around them better and somehow at the end of the day put up great numbers..

    Stop with the Excuses!

    Stop with the nonsense and stop with the hate.

    We get your agenda.

    _

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Stop with the nonsense and stop with the hate.

    We get your agenda.

    _
    You're such a putz. WTF if your problem? I don't have an agenda. I want Mark to be great. What's wrong with saying itt's time for him to step up? There is enough talent around him for him to play better then he has. I don't hate Shanchez at all. Wanting my QB to be great and wanting him to play much better than he has is hate?
    Last edited by LockeJET; 08-23-2012 at 10:25 PM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by LockeJET View Post
    You're such a putz. WTF if your problem? I don't have an agenda. I want Mark to be great. What's wrong with saying itt's time for him to step up? There is enough talent around him for him to play better then he has. I don't hate Shanchez at all. Wanting my QB to be great and wanting him to play much better than he has is hate?
    There's a difference between saying Sanchez needs to "step up" and saying he needs to perform Manning-like magic with the talent around him.

    If you feel the talent is above-average, then yes -- Sanchez should take full advantage of that.

    But expecting him to make them look better than they actually are -- I don't think that's a fair bar to set at this point in his career . . .

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    There's a difference between saying Sanchez needs to "step up" and saying he needs to perform Manning-like magic with the talent around him.

    If you feel the talent is above-average, then yes -- Sanchez should take full advantage of that.

    But expecting him to make them look better than they actually are -- I don't think that's a fair bar to set at this point in his career . . .
    I'm talking about a guy like Holmes. Holmes should be a 1000 yard reciever for us. Not the garbage we saw last year. Also by stepping up I mean playing more mistake free. Do I expect 4500 yards? No! But he cant have 30 turnovers either.

    I'm not saying he has to be Manning. But he must take our talent and get the best of them. Point is, Mark doesn't get the best out of the talent around him.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by LockeJET View Post
    I'm talking about a guy like Holmes. Holmes should be a 1000 yard reciever for us. Not the garbage we saw last year. Also by stepping up I mean playing more mistake free. Do I expect 4500 yards? No! But he cant have 30 turnovers either.

    I'm not saying he has to be Manning. But he must take our talent and get the best of them. Point is, Mark doesn't get the best out of the talent around him.
    I'd agree and say it's a different argument than your previous post.

    If nothing else, he should cut down the turnovers -- lead the league in throwaways if that's what it takes, but be more mentally in control of the situation around you.

    But other than that I still think there's only so much he can do. Even Brady gets rattled under pressure -- I would assume that's magnified 10 fold for someone like Sanchez. Who knows what David Carr could have turned into? All it takes is that little bit of doubt and your concentration is broken. I just hope the damage isn't already done.

    And that's not making excuses, it's just stating facts. If he can't step up, it won't matter who's fault it is -- we'll have to move on regardless, and I'm REALLY hoping it doesn't resort to that.

    On a positive note, Sparano seems more open to improvisation, so hopefully that keeps Mark from "forcing the issue" as much this year . . .

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    I'd agree and say it's a different argument than your previous post.

    If nothing else, he should cut down the turnovers -- lead the league in throwaways if that's what it takes, but be more mentally in control of the situation around you.

    But other than that I still think there's only so much he can do. Even Brady gets rattled under pressure -- I would assume that's magnified 10 fold for someone like Sanchez. Who knows what David Carr could have turned into? All it takes is that little bit of doubt and your concentration is broken. I just hope the damage isn't already done.

    And that's not making excuses, it's just stating facts. If he can't step up, it won't matter who's fault it is -- we'll have to move on regardless, and I'm REALLY hoping it doesn't resort to that.

    On a positive note, Sparano seems more open to improvisation, so hopefully that keeps Mark from "forcing the issue" as much this year . . .
    I agree!! I just can't stand it when one says I have an agenda because I'm tough on our QB at times on the internet. This is a place to vent. I want more out of Mark. Maybe i'm too tough on him but that doesn't mean I dont back him. I'm tough on my son, daughter, etc.. I have high expectations!

    Over the years my wife and I have been in some arguments. Maybe I've called her a B!tch once or twice. Does that mean I don't back her? think negatively of her, have an agenda? No! Same with Mark. He's my QB!! On Sunday's everything is gone and I root him on all the way. But if he stinks up the joint and I come here and put him down, it doesnt make me a Sanchez hater or have an agenda. I just vent differently.

    If anything A guy like Stokes has the agenda as he's very one sided and never comes off it.

    I want Sanchez to succeed but I just lack the confidence in him. IF he turns it around I'll be tHe first to admit I was wrong and be just as happy as anyone.
    Last edited by LockeJET; 08-23-2012 at 11:10 PM.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by LockeJET View Post
    Thats not true at all.. Many big time QB's have taken avg wideouts and made them into damn good players and put up fantastic numbers with them.

    I want Mark to be great. Is that too much to ask for? And great QB's make recievers and TE's better.
    Yeah and they had great lines, and a system that let them adjust to the defense they were seeing. Their coaches didn't panic when they struggled their first couple years, and over coach them into being afraid to make a mistake. We have some young players that can grow with Mark into his prime. Let the defense carry the team, and give the offense time to make mistakes, and learn from them how to be great. They have to be able to just go play, and not try to game manage. That never works. Mark will never be great if he's playing it safe. Glad the defense see's this.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by LockeJET View Post
    Stokes - Look what Manning did to Collie and Garcon. Look at the garabge QB's that Keyshawn played with over the years yet he always put up numbers and made sick grabs, etc etc....Plenty if big time QB's have taken avg talent and put up fantastic numbers with minimal turnovers. That's what I mean by Sanchez finding his way.

    Great players find a way to make players around them better and somehow at the end of the day put up great numbers..

    Stop with the Excuses!
    Pierre Garcon

    2010: 67 catches, 784 yards (11.7 ypc), 6 TD
    2011: 70 catches, 947 yards (13.5 ypc), 6 TD



    Pierre Garcon is a really good receiver. This is something else that happens to good receivers that play with great QBs: The QB gets all the credit.

    Peyton Manning is one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game. It's not a disservice to him to say that he has played with a number of very good to great receivers, and for a time played with arguably the best running back in the league.

    Look at Manning first 3 years. Steady progression through year 3, big regression in year 4. What happened? Edgerrin James got hurt and defenses were able to key on Manning, who only had 1 great receiver at the time, as Reggie Wayne was just a rookie (another reason not to expect much from Hill this year). And the Colts still had a good running game: Dominic Rhodes ran for 1100 yards on 4.7 yards per carry. But he wasn't the same receiver and didn't command the respect from defenses that Edge did. James was coming off of consecutive seasons of 1,500 and 1,700 yards (while also catching 62 passes for 586 yards and 63 passes for 594 yards out of the backfield).

    In Manning's record breaking 2004 season, the Colts offense consisted of:

    Marvin Harrison: 1st round, 19th pick (1996)
    Tarik Glenn: 1st round, 19th pick (1997)
    Peyton Manning: 1st round, 1st pick (1998)
    Edgerrin James: 1st round, 4th pick (1999)
    Reggie Wayne: 1st round, 30th pick (2001)
    Dallas Clark: 1st round, 24th pick (2003)

    Between 1996 and 2003, the Colts went offense in the 1st round 6 out of 8 times, and hit on every one of those offensive picks. They also got lucky with Jeff Saturday, who was a UDFA.

    2003-2006 Manning was the greatest statistical regular season run a QB has ever had. Manning averaged a 105.9 passer rating over those 4 years. Other numbers: TD rate of 6.6%, INT rate of 1.9%, ypa of 8.2, ypc of 12.3, comp% of 66.7%.

    James left via FA after 2005. Glenn retired after the 2006 Super Bowl Season. Marvin Harrison missed most of 2007 with injury and wasn't the same guy in 2008 (2006 was his last All Pro year). Manning from 2007-2010 averaged a passer rating of 96.0. Other numbers: TD rate of 5.3%, INT rate of 2.5%, ypa of 7.4, ypc of 11.1, Comp% of 66.9%. Which is still phenomenal, but I think you get the idea: decline of surrounding talent = decline in Manning's level of production.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Tom Brady had a significant jump in production between 2003 and 2004.

    The Patriots signed Pro Bowl running back Corey Dillon, who came in and ran for 1600 yards in 2004. Antowain Smith and Kevin Faulk averaged 3.4 and 3.6 yards per carry in 2003. Dillon averaged 4.7 yards per attempt in 2004.


    Tom Brady had a significant drop in production between 2005 and 2006.

    The Patriots elected to let Deion Branch and David Givens, their 2 top receivers, walk in free agency. They were replaced by Reche Caldwell and a 35 year old Troy Brown, who moved back into a starting role. They had drafted Chad Jackson, but everyone know that didn't work out (Why didn't Brady just "elevate" him?). Seattle thought they were signing "Super Bowl MVP Deion Branch," when they were really just signing "nice receiver Deion Branch." He was only a disappointment because they got caught up in his Super Bowl performance (doesn't that sound familiar?). Branch has eclipsed 60 receptions once in his career, he's never had a 1,000 yard season, and has never caught more than 5 TDs in a season. His career averages are 4 catches and 50 yards per game, and that's exactly what he averaged in Seattle.



    Brady had a dramatic increase in production between 2006 and 2007 (passer rating increase of 30 points )

    Patriots acquire Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and Donte Stallworth. Koppen makes first Pro Bowl, Mankins makes first Pro Bowl, Matt Light 1st team All Pro (Brady had a sack rate of 3.5% in 2007, 2 full percentage points lower than his career average to this point).



    **Let's be clear, I used examples from the careers of PEYTON MANNING and TOM BRADY.

    The point is that no matter how good the quarterback is, their level of play is still tied to the quality of their teammates.

    A QB may "elevate" (though I wouldn't call it that) others around them, but it is at the cost of their own production. Surrounding a QB with quality teammates will "elevate" the play of the QB in a similar manner.**





    A last, anecdotal, example. Some people consider John Elway to be the greatest QB ever. There is no evidence to support this statement found in his career statistics, at least not until late in his career. Not coincidentally, Elway never had what anyone would consider to be a very good supporting cast until late in his career: when his numbers took off.


    Think about it like this. The output of an offense is the product of an equation where the quarterback is a multiplier applied to the sum of the parts of the rest of the offense, with no quarterback having a value equal to or greater than 1 (The idea being that no quarterback can cause another player to produce more than their talent is capable of producing).

    That part was a little out there, it's past 2AM, I've been typing for some time, and I'm more than a little tired. I better stop now.

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