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Thread: Colts close to a major trade??

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    Wilson is also a good corner. He's not in the league of Cromartie, but he's still a good player.

    Yes, Cro and/or Wilson messing up drives us crazy, but it's a high exposure position. Watch the other teams' corners for a bunch of games and the same things happen.

    The top 5 can be debatable, and honestly, Cro played better than Aso, Samuel and Finnegan last year, IMO.
    We'll just have to agree to disagree on Wilson. Until he starts locating the ball on a consistent basis, he's no better than an adequate nickel, IMO.

    I'll say this about Cro: he has the physical ability to be the NFL's best CB, even better than Revis. His mental lapses, though, are what's preventing that and driving us crazy at the same time.

    As for this supposed trade goes, I'd much rather trade Wilson replace him with someone like Lankster than trade Cro and replace him with Wilson.

    It's probably moot anyway; Rex lives and dies with his CBs.

  2. #22
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    How the hell would a move for Kyle Wilson constitute as a "major" trade?

    I seriously doubt that we're even involved.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10PennyToColes87 View Post
    We'll just have to agree to disagree on Wilson. Until he starts locating the ball on a consistent basis, he's no better than an adequate nickel, IMO.

    I'll say this about Cro: he has the physical ability to be the NFL's best CB, even better than Revis. His mental lapses, though, are what's preventing that and driving us crazy at the same time.

    As for this supposed trade goes, I'd much rather trade Wilson replace him with someone like Lankster than trade Cro and replace him with Wilson.

    It's probably moot anyway; Rex lives and dies with his CBs.
    I understand what you're saying, too. I was back and forth on Wilson, but honestly in Rex's defense, the CBs are left without help (for the most part). Especially in the past couple of years where our safeties were..... less than good.

    I agree with you on the Wilson instead of Cro trade, but I don't see how a major trade of this proportions will include Wilson, and not someone like Cromartie.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    How the hell would a move for Kyle Wilson constitute as a "major" trade?

    I seriously doubt that we're even involved.
    I bet we're on the phone, at least. Like I said, Cro for a 2nd and Justice would be something that it's going to end up being. MJD for a 2nd and a starter. Something like that.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10PennyToColes87 View Post
    You also have defended Wilson by saying we're spoiled by Revis. Obviously, it's true that most of us take Revis' elite play for granted at this point, but it's still maddening to see Cro and/or Wilson slip up, usually in the same manor.

    As for your question, easy: 1) Aso 2) Woodson 3) Bailey 4) Samuel 5) Finnegan. I'm a fan of Cro's, but he's in no way shape or form a top-5 corner.
    Not to get sidetracked, but I'd put him above all 5 you listed.

    Brandon Carr, Brandon flowers, maybe a joe Haden and Jonathan Joseph. Carlos Rogers played like the 2nd best CB last year (in the best defense in football). Corner is such a tough position to grade. I think people get more focused on what Cro can't do...cover small Wrs like Welker and Cruz. He can cover big Wrs which is typically tougher to find. Cro made more mistakes on special teams than as a corner last year. There's no comparison, we have the best two corners on the outside in the league.

    The 5 you listed were great, finnegan flashed and has been average since. Samuel is almost a backup in Atlanta, aso is better for a TE type ( likely why our FO valued him over Cro)...but still played bad last year. Champ is great, but I'd argue for long term you'd obviously take Cro given age. Woodson hasn't been able to cover for years an is now a safety (but an incredible playmaker...better player not corner

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    I understand what you're saying, too. I was back and forth on Wilson, but honestly in Rex's defense, the CBs are left without help (for the most part). Especially in the past couple of years where our safeties were..... less than good.

    I agree with you on the Wilson instead of Cro trade, but I don't see how a major trade of this proportions will include Wilson, and not someone like Cromartie.
    In any case, I am excited to see the Jets' corners this season now that they'll actually have capable safeties behind them. Hopefully Wilson makes me look like a fool for bad-mouthing him.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10PennyToColes87 View Post
    In any case, I am excited to see the Jets' corners this season now that they'll actually have capable safeties behind them. Hopefully Wilson makes me look like a fool for bad-mouthing him.
    If these new safeties pan out, the CBs will have a quiet year, and our defense will seem like a terror.

    The other thing I'm excited about, actually the first thing, is the ability of the young guys - Coples and Ellis specifically - to push the pocket up the middle.

    That changes everything.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    If these new safeties pan out, the CBs will have a quiet year, and our defense will seem like a terror.

    The other thing I'm excited about, actually the first thing, is the ability of the young guys - Coples and Ellis specifically - to push the pocket up the middle.

    That changes everything.
    Gonna be one nasty defense this year. Something we can both agree on.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10PennyToColes87 View Post
    You also have defended Wilson by saying we're spoiled by Revis. Obviously, it's true that most of us take Revis' elite play for granted at this point, but it's still maddening to see Cro and/or Wilson slip up, usually in the same manor.

    As for your question, easy: 1) Aso 2) Woodson 3) Bailey 4) Samuel 5) Finnegan. I'm a fan of Cro's, but he's in no way shape or form a top-5 corner.

    I wanted to stay out of this topic, but, seriously....... I don't know how you can say ANY of those CBs are better than Cromartie, right now.

    Asomaugh had a terrible year, last year..... he is not the CB he once was.

    Woodson is such a great CB, right now..... that GB moved him to safety.

    Bailey hasn't been a top 3 CB in a few years..... Revis, Aso and Woodson have all outperformed him in '08, '09 and '10..... maybe '11.

    Samuel hasn't been the player he was with the Pats, since his second year after leaving them. He's been living on "reputation" for a while.

    Finnegan, is another guy that's "reputation" is a lot better than the reality. He had 2 good years, then turned it into a big contract..... he gets beat, a lot.

    I'm not saying that these guys aren't really good CBs, but none of them are clearly better than Cromartie. You have to also keep in mind, that none of those guys have a guy like Revis on the other side..... Cro gets targeted, a lot, just for being the "other" CB.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TokyoJetsFan View Post
    Report: Colts pursuing a veteran cornerback

    A reliable source tells the Indianapolis Star the player the Colts are pursuing in trade talks is a cornerback. Owner Jim Irsay's comments suggest the trade target is a veteran looking for a new contract. Cary Williams reportedly turned down a three-year, $15 million offer before training camp, and the Ravens have depth in 2011 first-rounder Jimmy Smith. CBS Sports' Jason LaCanfora confirms the Colts have had no talks with the Cowboys about Mike Jenkins' (shoulder) availability. Rotoworld's Evan Silva suspects Dolphins CB Vontae Davis could be the Colts' target, as Williams is playing Thursday night. If he was involved in talks, the Ravens would likely hold him out.
    If Miami moves Davis they are complete morons running that show. Yeah can't wait to see Hill owning Richard Marshall. lol

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10PennyToColes87 View Post
    You also have defended Wilson by saying we're spoiled by Revis. Obviously, it's true that most of us take Revis' elite play for granted at this point, but it's still maddening to see Cro and/or Wilson slip up, usually in the same manor.

    As for your question, easy: 1) Aso 2) Woodson 3) Bailey 4) Samuel 5) Finnegan. I'm a fan of Cro's, but he's in no way shape or form a top-5 corner.
    lol Bailey? really? I'd take Wilson over Bailey right now. And I love Bailey. Look up Brandon Flowers you'll be amazed. Samuel and Woodson are both past there primes and Woodson I don't even think is playing CB. Aso no. That dude was so over rated last year and he isn't even better then Samuel.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TokyoJetsFan View Post
    Report: Colts pursuing a veteran cornerback

    A reliable source tells the Indianapolis Star the player the Colts are pursuing in trade talks is a cornerback.
    Owner Jim Irsay's comments suggest the trade target is a veteran looking for a new contract. Cary Williams reportedly turned down a three-year, $15 million offer before training camp, and the Ravens have depth in 2011 first-rounder Jimmy Smith. CBS Sports' Jason LaCanfora confirms the Colts have had no talks with the Cowboys about Mike Jenkins' (shoulder) availability. Rotoworld's Evan Silva suspects Dolphins CB Vontae Davis could be the Colts' target, as Williams is playing Thursday night. If he was involved in talks, the Ravens would likely hold him out.
    The only CB on the Jets that would fit that criteria is Revis. He wants a new contract and he's worth a high pick. The players mentioned in the story would possibly be worth a 4th at most. That's not a high pick. So if it is from our team it would be Revis.. If we got their first in return it would be most likely a top 5 pick. And I'm assuming a player would also come back in return.
    Last edited by Choon328; 08-24-2012 at 01:04 AM.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choon328 View Post
    The only CB on the Jets that would fit that criteria is Revis. He wants a new contract and he's worth a high pick. The players mentioned in the story would possibly be worth a 4th at most. That's not a high pick. So if it is from our team it would be Revis.. If we got their first in return it would be most likely a top 5 pick. And I'm assuming a player would also come back in return.
    I'm terrified and exhilarated. It feels like prom night.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoldengod View Post
    Not to get sidetracked, but I'd put him above all 5 you listed.

    Brandon Carr, Brandon flowers, maybe a joe Haden and Jonathan Joseph. Carlos Rogers played like the 2nd best CB last year (in the best defense in football). Corner is such a tough position to grade. I think people get more focused on what Cro can't do...cover small Wrs like Welker and Cruz. He can cover big Wrs which is typically tougher to find. Cro made more mistakes on special teams than as a corner last year. There's no comparison, we have the best two corners on the outside in the league.

    The 5 you listed were great, finnegan flashed and has been average since. Samuel is almost a backup in Atlanta, aso is better for a TE type ( likely why our FO valued him over Cro)...but still played bad last year. Champ is great, but I'd argue for long term you'd obviously take Cro given age. Woodson hasn't been able to cover for years an is now a safety (but an incredible playmaker...better player not corner
    This is me thanking you for plausible, readable football analysis. That's a rarity on this board.

  15. #35
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    For the owner to make a comment on a trade like that. I would say it had to be a big name involved like Mike Wallace, Revis, MJD, Bowe

  16. #36
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    I find it hilarious the way that so man people underrate Samuel. He had 2 bad years in '08 and '09 and has been excellent ever since. Philly traded him because they couldn't keep that kind of money invested in 3 corners. They kept the young one (DRC) and the best one (Aso) whose contract would have been the hardest to move (not in a position to be able to renegotiate right now).

    There's more than one kind of corner. Samuel wouldn't be an ideal fit for us, but not every team wants their corners to play tight man coverage 80% of the time. Samuel remains the elite "off" corners in the league, and might be the best at playing the ball in the air. People who think he's an average corner now are guilty of the same error that those who thought he was elite in '08 and '09 were: judging players based on reputation. Especially considering the awesome year that he just had.

  17. #37
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    The only player that fits in the description is Revis. Rex won't let that happen. Hands off our Defense!

  18. #38
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    This kinda statement has Revis written all over it. It immediately frees us from cap hell, gives us a lineman and a first round pick.

    Don't think they would trade the protection of their Stud QB though.

    But Tanny and Woody can't stand Revis' agents ... So ... Mayhaps.

    It is either that or we are somehow trading Hunter

    Last edited by Dunnie; 08-24-2012 at 07:06 AM.

  19. #39
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    It's either MjD or Wallace, no way Rex lets revis go

  20. #40
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    I seriously doubt the Jets are involved. The Colts need O-Line help just like we do.

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