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Thread: Ten shot, 2 dead near New York's Empire State Building

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby2 View Post
    Lol ok whatever man. Continue to use every news story regarding violence to advocate that we pay more attention to stories involving those lower on the socio-economic scale.
    Because doing that would be shame, wouldn't it.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    This guy had a pistol and there was one fatality.

    The guy in Colorado had an assault rifle, and other weapons/armor, and twelve people are dead.
    9 People were shot, including the shooter.

    He opened fire in the middle of a city, our biggest city, in open daylight. The Colorado shooter was ina theatre, at midnight, in a small town.

    The primary differences are today's shooter was apparently after a specific target (his former boss), and after killing him, simply went on shooting as suicide-by-cop. The Colorado shooter has a much longer amount of time ina far more enclosed space in whcih to shoot. And despite hitting 8 people, the NY shooter only killed one, with a .45 at that, so apparently he wasn't a very good shot as a .45 is quite deadly a round (thing is huge).

    What I find interesting is the coverage of this vs. the coverage of Chicago and DC and the "daily deathtoll" in many of our major cities. It seems to take a huge flashy newsstory shooting to get coverage, not teh run of the mill assembly line of death we have in our major cities and low-income areas.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Because doing that would be shame, wouldn't it.
    Lol not at all. Its just illogical to use this situation at the empire state building as a jumping off platform to discuss the amount of coverage or lack thereof in regards to violence plaguing inner city America. Besides as mentioned earlier, I see every single day in the news stories about violence in NYC and Chicago. You are acting like no one is aware of this other than yourself.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby2 View Post
    Lol not at all. Its just illogical to use this situation at the empire state building as a jumping off platform to discuss the amount of coverage or lack thereof in regards to violence plaguing inner city America. Besides as mentioned earlier, I see every single day in the news stories about violence in NYC and Chicago. You are acting like no one is aware of this other than yourself.
    Discussing media coverage of shootings after a shooting is illogical? Whatever you say Ruby.

    And no, many people (albeit not enough) are well aware of the differing values our media, and many of our citizens, place on life and it's loss. It's certainly not just me.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Discussing media coverage of shootings after a shooting is illogical? Whatever you say Ruby.

    And no, many people (albeit not enough) are well aware of the differing values our media, and many of our citizens, place on life and it's loss. It's certainly not just me.
    It seems illigical when you clearly have an agenda here. You voiced the same sentiments with the Casey Anthony situation. What becomes major news in the country is based on story/caprivation, not the victims color.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby2 View Post
    What becomes major news in the country is based on story/caprivation, not the victims color.
    What become major news is what major news thinks will sell the most.

    What will sell the most is what the most people choose to care about, rightly or wrongly.

    Most people care about flash, and ignore substance. Care for surface, ignore depth.

    Most people, frankly, are stupid ignorant uninformed sheeple.

    If you think the race and socio-economic status of the victims does not play a factor, a meaningful factor, in media coverage decisions and viewer caring, you're clearly in the uninformed category.

    Ignorance must be bliss.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Ignorance must be bliss.
    The Mantra of America.



    20,000 people died of starvation last night. How were those Dorito's?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    9 People were shot, including the shooter.

    He opened fire in the middle of a city, our biggest city, in open daylight. The Colorado shooter was ina theatre, at midnight, in a small town.

    The primary differences are today's shooter was apparently after a specific target (his former boss), and after killing him, simply went on shooting as suicide-by-cop. The Colorado shooter has a much longer amount of time ina far more enclosed space in whcih to shoot. And despite hitting 8 people, the NY shooter only killed one, with a .45 at that, so apparently he wasn't a very good shot as a .45 is quite deadly a round (thing is huge).
    If we're just going by number of people shot, it's 9 for the NY shooting and 70 for the Aurora shooting.

    And I don't think there's much of a difference, in density of people, between a packed movie theatre on opening night and any given NY street.

    But it is quite clear the motives and approaches were different - you do have a point there - but if assault rifles were outlawed in the United States, then the Aurora shooter would never have been able to shoot 70 people so quickly.

    While I'm not passionate about gun control either way, it is clear that the freedom to legally purchase assault rifles does come at a cost.

    But on the other hand, what's to say this guy wouldn't have just made a bomb instead?

    But then again, him trying to make a homemade bomb (and not blowing himself up in the process) and having it work as it he intended is probably far more difficult than purchasing an assault rifle.

    There will always be psychos, and there will always be ways for those people to commit murder, but perhaps the question is, could we find a middle ground between the right to bear arms (a right written at a time when "arms" where front-loaded muskets and one-shot pistols, not AR-15's with 100 round drum clips) and prudent restrictions?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    9 People were shot, including the shooter.

    He opened fire in the middle of a city, our biggest city, in open daylight. The Colorado shooter was ina theatre, at midnight, in a small town.

    The primary differences are today's shooter was apparently after a specific target (his former boss), and after killing him, simply went on shooting as suicide-by-cop. The Colorado shooter has a much longer amount of time ina far more enclosed space in whcih to shoot. And despite hitting 8 people, the NY shooter only killed one, with a .45 at that, so apparently he wasn't a very good shot as a .45 is quite deadly a round (thing is huge).

    What I find interesting is the coverage of this vs. the coverage of Chicago and DC and the "daily deathtoll" in many of our major cities. It seems to take a huge flashy newsstory shooting to get coverage, not teh run of the mill assembly line of death we have in our major cities and low-income areas.




    You are not impressing here.

    Just sayin.

    -

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    What I find interesting is the coverage of this vs. the coverage of Chicago and DC and the "daily deathtoll" in many of our major cities. It seems to take a huge flashy newsstory shooting to get coverage, not teh run of the mill assembly line of death we have in our major cities and low-income areas.
    I don't disagree that sensationalism is rampant, nor that it's the news that the masses want. But I don't think it's as inherently biased against low income/minorities as you think. If the bloods and the crips start swappin' lead outside of the ESB, I think it's making the news. And, by the same token, if disgruntled workers came back to the ESB and shot their former employers every day for the next 10 or 20 or 30 years, I think it would find it's way off the front page soon enough, and then out of the news entirely.

    When a rich kid goes to Harvard, it doesn't make the papers; when a homeless teenager does it, it's news. Go figure. I guess that's why they call it "news", and not "ordinary stuff that happens all the time".

    And, yeah, unusual or peculiar stuff draws more interest. But it's not just from us plebians - it happens in science, literature, art, etc., etc., etc. It's not even just us dumb humans - it happens in the animal kingdom too.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post



    You are not impressing here.

    Just sayin.

    -
    Objection, your honour, relevance?

    You should know by now old friend, I post what I think or think is important, not to impress my fellow JI'ers.

    I see a problem with both how we, as a people, view violent crime and how we react to it, as well as how the for-profit media sells us certain crime as entertainment.

    If, as an officer of the Law, you can say with surety that you think we, as a people, react 100% appropriately to all crimes, and that our media covers exactly what it should, how it should, so be it. As always Greeny, I'm happy to agree to disagree.

    I, for one, find 19 shootings in Chicago, a regular occurence in our big cities, in one night vastly more newsworthy than one guy killing his boss in an obvious revenge killing, then playing the age old sucicde-by-cop routine.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    The Mantra of America.



    20,000 people died of starvation last night. How were those Dorito's?
    I like Doritos.


  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    I, for one, find 19 shootings in Chicago, a regular occurence in our big cities, in one night vastly more newsworthy than one guy killing his boss in an obvious revenge killing, then playing the age old sucicde-by-cop routine.
    Because it happened outside the Empire State Building, Fish.

    Which would get more news coverage? A guy masturbating in a McDonald's parking lot in Centerville, OH or behind the dugout of Yankee Stadium?

  14. #54
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    Oops.

    Authorities confirm all 9 injured in NYC shooting were hit by police

    Published: Saturday, August 25, 2012, 12:56 PM Updated: Saturday, August 25, 2012, 12:58 PM
    By The Associated Press

    NEW YORK — Authorities are confirming that all nine bystanders caught in the crossfire of a shooting outside the Empire State Building were wounded by two veteran patrolmen who had never fired their weapons on duty.

    Officer Craig Matthews fired seven times and Officer Robert Sinishtaj fired nine times at Jeffrey Johnson on bustling midtown block Friday morning after Johnson, who’d shot a former co-worker to death, brazenly pointed his pistol at the officers.

    Police had said that nine others were wounded likely by stray or ricocheting police bullets, and Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly confirmed that Saturday. He says that based on ballistic tests and other evidence, "it appears that all nine of the victims were struck either by fragments or by bullets fired by police."
    That's some fine shootin'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonhomme Richard View Post
    Oops.



    That's some fine shootin'.

    Hey those weren't easy shots, those targets were all moving.

  16. #56
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    Problem is, we need plain old citizens, with varying degrees of training, out there shooting at the guy in addition to the trained cops - more guns is better. More guns = less people shot. Amirite?

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by isired View Post
    Problem is, we need plain old citizens, with varying degrees of training, out there shooting at the guy in addition to the trained cops - more guns is better. More guns = less people shot. Amirite?
    Not just more guns, bigger guns with bigger clips that unload them at faster rates and are easier to reload and if they can go through walls even less people will be shot.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonhomme Richard View Post
    Oops.



    That's some fine shootin'.
    May you walk a mile in their shoes.


    -

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    May you walk a mile in their shoes.


    -

    I know it's easy for us MMQBs to make jokes, I bet the adrenaline rush alone makes shooting straight unimaginably difficult.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Not just more guns, bigger guns with bigger clips that unload them at faster rates and are easier to reload and if they can go through walls even less people will be shot.
    Why not give everyone hand grenades?

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