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Thread: Questions you would like one candidate to ask the other candidate in a debate

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    Taxes by definition are force. Every time you add a "service" , particularly those determined by the minority to be for the "greater good", you exert your will upon me and reduce my freedoms and my choice.
    You took offense to what you thought was an argument to force citizens to use services that they didn't believe in (it wasn't, of course). Taxing you and then using tax dollars to fund the offering of a service doesn't force you to use the service.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by isired View Post
    You took offense to what you thought was an argument to force citizens to use services that they didn't believe in (it wasn't, of course). Taxing you and then using tax dollars to fund the offering of a service doesn't force you to use the service.
    Wrong. It makes me an accessory to the murder of an innocent human life. I'm not interested in it, and I refuse to be a part of it. I will be taking whatever steps I deem necessary to see that it never happens.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Who the hell are you to say that women who can’t afford to take care of her child I have to support but you don’t want to support her abortion because of your personal beliefs? The reason I do and you do is we have a nation that demands it.
    I'm not telling you that you have to support her either. I expect her to support herself if that his her decision. If you want to help her, feel free to do so voluntarily. If we have a nation that demands choice, there damn well better be the understanding that the cost is part of that choice. If you can't afford an abortion, factor that into your decision. If you can't afford the pregnancy, you have Medicaid to help. And you're lucky to have it. Pick one. There is no option C in which you get to have your cake and eat mine too, making me complicit in your murdering ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Why should I pay for drone planes that are used in assassinations, renditions for torture, war crimes committed on my dime? There are a ton of things that our government funds from abortion to torture to outright murder that I don't support but I can't opt out from and as screwed up as that is, it's a good thing it is that way.
    The military is a necessary piece of government, self-defense is one of the few reasons it exists in the first place. It is mandatory by definition in the Constitution. Abortion is not.

    Those are also terrible analogies because abortion is left to a decision by individual citizens, not the collective. You want to give them to choice to take my money or not. If they have that say , then why shouldn't I?

    Regardless of all that, if your government is spending your money to do things you despise, are you going to just shrug your shoulders and hand them a check? Or are you going to do something about it? Excuse me for actually being proactive in defending my personal sovereignty. I vote in accordance, and if that stops working, there are others steps I am willing and prepared to take.
    Last edited by JetPotato; 08-28-2012 at 03:58 PM.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    So then the Ryan/Akin legislation means that while "forcible" rape is an exception for abortion, statutory rape victims are legally required to give birth?

    Essentially what you're saying is, the law says they're too young to decide who to have sex with, but they must live with the consequences no matter what?
    Yes and no. Recall that most statutory rape cases are not with people who are incapable of consent (sex with a 9 year old is rape, not statutory rape) but with people who the law says may not consent to sex with people above a certain age (a 15 year old can legally have sex with her 15 year old boyfriend, but not with her 22 year old boyfriend).

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    You're bible endorses abortion for adultery.

    Tell your god to put THAT in his pipe and smoke it:



    LOLZ!!! God wouldn't be able get a nomination from the GOP
    That's an atrociously poor translation, btw.

  6. #86
    =JetPotato;4570300]I'm not telling you that you have to support her either. I expect her to support herself if that his her decision. If you want to help her, feel free to do so voluntarily. If we have a nation that demands choice, there damn well better be the understanding that the cost is part of that choice. If you can't afford an abortion, factor that into your decision. If you can't afford the pregnancy, you have Medicaid to help. And you're lucky to have it. Pick one. There is no option C in which you get to have your cake and eat mine too, making me complicit in your murdering ways.
    Who do you think pays for Medicaid? The collective.


    The military is a necessary piece of government, self-defense is one of the few reasons it exists in the first place. It is mandatory by definition in the Constitution. Abortion is not.

    Those are also terrible analogies because abortion is left to a decision by individual citizens, not the collective. You want to give them to choice to take my money or not. If they have that say , then why shouldn't I?
    You get outraged that I don't want to pay for people who can't afford their pregnancies through Medicaid which I pay for and you have the gall to call rendition to torture, torture and assassination morally okay to fund because it's national defense? The collective? The US government isn't the Borg. International war crimes aren't part of our Constitution. These most certainly are the decisions of individuals, ones who are never held accountable.

    I keep hearing about the war on religion yet when we talk about the tax code when are Republicans going to stand up to get rid of the tax breaks for religious institutions and let people put their money where their mouth is? Why should I have to pay more to support that military because those of faith, those who are blabbering about paying for their decisions have decided I should subsidize their faith?
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 08-29-2012 at 06:46 AM.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Who do you think pays for Medicaid? The collective.
    As I've already stated, given a choice between having my money stolen to ensure the life and health of a child, versus having it stolen for the murder of a child, I will accept the former.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    You get outraged that I don't want to pay for people who can't afford their pregnancies through Medicaid which I pay for and you have the gall to call rendition to torture, torture and assassination morally okay to fund because it's national defense? The collective? The US government isn't the Borg. International war crimes aren't part of our Constitution. These most certainly are the decisions of individuals, ones who are never held accountable.
    Hello straw man. I was talking specifically about self-defense. I have not addressed torture, etc. Nice tangent, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    I keep hearing about the war on religion yet when we talk about the tax code when are Republicans going to stand up to get rid of the tax breaks for religious institutions and let people put their money where their mouth is? Why should I have to pay more to support that military because those of faith, those who are blabbering about paying for their decisions have decided I should subsidize their faith?
    Blabbering is the key word here. Straw men are straw.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    As I've already stated, given a choice between having my money stolen to ensure the life and health of a child, versus having it stolen for the murder of a child, I will accept the former.



    Hello straw man. I was talking specifically about self-defense. I have not addressed torture, etc. Nice tangent, though.



    Blabbering is the key word here. Straw men are straw.
    Straw man BS. You keep talking about personal responsability but that's not what's really at stake and you know it. This is about both sides taking a polarizing position, one who wants to talk about self reliance through funding so they can siphon more of their tax dollars to their private schools, churchs and other institution at the expense of the secular institutions that have been built up since WW2. The other party, the Democrats are about establishing rights through dependency so they can continue to build their constituency. Both are clearly using government funds to pay off their constituency and neither is about self reliance in spite of the nonesense Conservatives are preeching both here and at the Convention.


    The Democrats stand for establishing rights through government payments to create a dependent constituency. That means free birth control and abortions.

    Republicans stand for self-reliance so they can siphon the treasury with tax breaks for private institutions and church’s to create a dependent constituency. That means cut the crap out of public schools and eliminate Medicaid and Medicare as we know it.

    Paul Ryan hasn't yet named a tax deduction he would get rid of. Let him start with charity and move on to mortgages before I believe the crap being sold by conservatives about dependency.

    You want an honest debate I'm all for it.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Straw man BS. You keep talking about personal responsability but that's not what's really at stake and you know it. This is about both sides taking a polarizing position, one who wants to talk about self reliance through funding so they can siphon more of their tax dollars to their private schools, churchs and other institution at the expense of the secular institutions that have been built up since WW2. The other party, the Democrats are about establishing rights through dependency so they can continue to build their constituency. Both are clearly using government funds to pay off their constituency and neither is about self reliance in spite of the nonesense Conservatives are preeching both here and at the Convention.


    The Democrats stand for establishing rights through government payments to create a dependent constituency. That means free birth control and abortions.

    Republicans stand for self-reliance so they can siphon the treasury with tax breaks for private institutions and church’s to create a dependent constituency. That means cut the crap out of public schools and eliminate Medicaid and Medicare as we know it.

    Paul Ryan hasn't yet named a tax deduction he would get rid of. Let him start with charity and move on to mortgages before I believe the crap being sold by conservatives about dependency.

    You want an honest debate I'm all for it.
    You're all over the map, bro.

    This is about a personal stance on the funding of abortion, and how that stance is being grossly misrepresented. You're trying to put an entire party platform that I have little allegiance to and cram it into my mouth. No thanks.

    Don't tell me what is not at stake for me "and I know it". I don't need you to tell me what my values and ideals are. Thanks though.

    You want to talk honestly about the litany of BS being spewed by both parties on other issues, I'd be happy to - in a different conversation.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    Wrong. It makes me an accessory to the murder of an innocent human life. I'm not interested in it, and I refuse to be a part of it. I will be taking whatever steps I deem necessary to see that it never happens.
    Yet you're OK supporting a military that has done the same, even to its own personnel. Interesting.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by isired View Post
    Yet you're OK supporting a military that has done the same, even to its own personnel. Interesting.
    Tell me what else I'm ok with. I'm interested to know what I stand for, you seem to be informed.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    Tell me what else I'm ok with. I'm interested to know what I stand for, you seem to be informed.
    Am I mistaken?

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by isired View Post
    Am I mistaken?
    Frequently

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    Frequently
    But not in this case, I guess, or you would have answered my question. Just cop to the hypocrisy - if it's the way you feel, it's the way you feel. When you spew too much BS, it's hard to be taken seriously. Thanks for playing.

  15. #95
    I'm curious Isi....

    You almost never post in here. For years, not much as a word usually.

    Now, suddenly, you've very active, specificly debating the Libertarian types (tater, me).

    In the interest of full disclosure, why the sudden appearence? Just the election?

    And are you a Democrat or generally vote Democrat?

    More curious than anything.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by isired View Post
    But not in this case, I guess, or you would have answered my question. Just cop to the hypocrisy - if it's the way you feel, it's the way you feel. When you spew too much BS, it's hard to be taken seriously. Thanks for playing.
    No, you are also mistaken in this case.

    But continue to put thoughts in the minds of others, even immediately after been called out on it.

    I wish you could grasp how ridiculous it makes you come across.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    I'm curious Isi....

    You almost never post in here. For years, not much as a word usually.

    Now, suddenly, you've very active, specificly debating the Libertarian types (tater, me).

    In the interest of full disclosure, why the sudden appearence? Just the election?

    And are you a Democrat or generally vote Democrat?

    More curious than anything.
    Fair enough. I would say it's a combination of the start of the season (so I'm just on the site more in general) and the election. I come into the poli forum in fits and starts, but when I do, I usually get sucked in and post. Then I generally start to tire of the hard-core partisanship, on both sides, and lose interest. Not even so much the fact that some feel and live this way, I can respect that, but the way that it affects discussions/arguments, where i feel many are just not open to seeing and evaluating things logically. So, perhaps counter-intuitively, I engage in debates with those who don't write follow a party-line - i.e., you - because it's just not interesting and, I feel, more honest.

    As to my 'status', I first registered as a Democrat as an 18 year-old, proceeded to vote Republican in my first presidential election, and have been Independent since. I vote D more than R, but not exclusively. I could have voted R in 2004, but not for Bush. I would have voted for McCain.v2004 over Kerry, but I couldn't vote for McCain.v2008. What he had to do to get the nomination in 08 just blew it for me. And, I'll admit, I got caught up in the idea of Obama, an idea that he has largely not lived up to.

    I will say that I'm generally impressed that, for the most part, there are some pretty intelligent dudes on here. For a bunch of Jets fans, anyway.
    Last edited by isired; 08-29-2012 at 03:27 PM.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by isired View Post
    Fair enough. I would say it's a combination of the start of the season (so I'm just on the site more in general) and the election. I come into the poli forum in fits and starts, but when I do, I usually get sucked in and post. Then I generally start to tire of the hard-core partisanship, on both sides, and lose interest. Not even so much the fact that some feel and live this way, I can respect that, but the way that it affects discussions/arguments, where i feel many are just not open to seeing and evaluating things logically. So, perhaps counter-intuitively, I engage in debates with those who don't write follow a party-line - i.e., you - because it's just not interesting and, I feel, more honest.

    As to my 'status', I first registered as a Democrat as an 18 year-old, proceeded to vote Republican in my first presidential election, and have been Independent since. I vote D more than R, but not exclusively. I could have voted R in 2004, but not for Bush. I would have voted for McCain.v2004 over Kerry, but I couldn't vote for McCain.v2008. What he had to do to get the nomination in 08 just blew it for me. And, I'll admit, I got caught up in the idea of Obama, an idea that he has largely not lived up to.

    I will say that I'm generally impressed that, for the most part, there are some pretty intelligent dudes on here He's the smartest guy in the room IMO. For a bunch of Jets fans, anyway.
    Appreciate the reply my friend, it's been a while since you and I have conversed in here, and (sadly) my memory isn't what it used to be as to every posters backstory after all these years. Although I certainly recall we've engaged before here in the past.

    If you don't mind another question, who are you leaning towards in 2012, and why?

    As for the smart guys, I never tire of reading Doggin's thoughts in here. Same for Winston and Tater as well, and Bitonti (sadly abscenet in here of late) and Parafly and Piney from a more Left-leaning persepctive.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    No, you are also mistaken in this case.

    But continue to put thoughts in the minds of others, even immediately after been called out on it.

    I wish you could grasp how ridiculous it makes you come across.
    This is what I mean - if I'm mistaken, and you in fact don't think that the military is a good and legitimate use of your tax dollars, why not just say so? Why play this cat-and-mouse?

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by isired View Post
    This is what I mean - if I'm mistaken, and you in fact don't think that the military is a good and legitimate use of your tax dollars, why not just say so? Why play this cat-and-mouse?
    Because the topic isn't the military, and to call the military "good" or "bad" is just too simplistic for words.

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