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Thread: Our Problem In My View

  1. #21
    They should've never moved up to draft Sanchez and that's the bottom line. I am a huge Sanchez supporter but you brought in a defensive coach who wanted to "ground and pound" from Day 1 then why move up so far in the draft for a QB? A guy like Tebow is who Rex wanted from Day 1. Building this team around Sanchez is not a priority, and I think if you gave the F.O. truth serum they would tell you that. They will build the type of team they envision and if Sanchez doesn't adapt soon they'll move on. That to me, is Tanny and Rex's mindset.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    But folks here continue to post the stupidity that "he was put in the best position of any rookie QB in the history of the league--top defense, top O-line, top running game".

    Ridiculous.

    NEVER gave him true weapons, never did anything to DEVELOP him, focused exclusively on defense.

    Yet some folks here continue with the nonsense--"he was a top 5 pick making MILLIONS, he should have elevated everyone around him".

    Pure garbage. Thomas Jones did not develop Sanchez. The top D did not develop Sanchez. An aging LT did not develop Sanchez. Schotty and Cavanuagh did not deveolp Sanchez. Rex focusing SOLELY on the defense did not deveolp Sanchez. Taking away Edwards and Cotch did not develop Sanchez. Allowing the OLine last year to become PUTRID did not develop Sanchez. Making Greene you're number one RB did not develop Sanchez. Look at the weapons we've added--a POS in Holmes, an ex-con who couldn't get open in Burress, Bilal Powell, Chaz Schilens, an Aussie rugby player--we NEEDED a STUD RT so we went out and splashed with Tebow.

    This team has done NOTHING to DEVELOP Sanchez, stop repeating that idiotic mantra that "he had the top defense, OLine and running game." He needs WEAPONS--the team needed to be about HIM--NOT the defense.

    We pfailed.

    _
    True, the Jets have done little to develop Sanchez and may have in fact ruined his career.

    The whole trading up and drafting of Sanchez underscores the inconsistencies between Jets ownership and the coaching staff. If you're going to hire a defensive coach and he wants to run a "ground & pound" offense, there was absolutely no need to draft a "franchise" quarterback. Any one of a number of journeymen QBs could have come in and done what the Jets have asked Sanchez to do. With no breaking-in period, no need for development, and a lot less financial resources tied up in the QB position. There is not, and never has been, anyone on the Jets staff qualified to develop a star QB.

    But, Woody fell in love with the pretty boy, Southern California, rockstar QB image that Sanchez had coming out of USC. And he thought that would help him sell out the new monstrosity of a stadium.

    In hindsight, if you were going to hire Rex as HC, the better thing to do would have been to break the bank and have Rex bring Ray Lewis with him (who was a free agent at the time) rather than Bart Scott. And have someone like Kyle Orton at QB making $8 million a year. Lewis would have sold just as many PSLs as Sanchez, and he may have been enough to get the Jets past Indy or Pittsburgh in one of those AFCCGs.

    I have nothing against Sanchez. In fact, I think he has what it takes to be a very good NFL QB. But, not on a defense-first, ground & pound team that has no idea how to develop and use a quarterback as an offensive weapon.

    Bottom line is, there was no reason to spend a top 5 draft pick and $20 million a year on a QB just to have him hand off and throw check-down passes...if he has time to throw at all.

  3. #23
    That's exactly why Baltimore told Ryan to take a hike when he interviewed for the HC job. All he cares about is defense because that's the only thing he is qualified to coach.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by nyctomjetsfan View Post
    That's exactly why Baltimore told Ryan to take a hike when he interviewed for the HC job. All he cares about is defense because that's the only thing he is qualified to coach.
    Its funny .. my first inclination was that in order to be a great defensive coach you had to understand various offensive scheme intimately. So by being an expert at one, you should by default, be decent at the other ... I guess I am wrong ?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by JB1089 View Post
    Your 1st round draft pick, by itself, is worth more than the combined value of your other 7 picks (go look at the draft value chart).

    Since Sanchez was drafted:

    1st rounders on Offense: 0
    1st rounders on Defense: 3

    OK it had something to do with the fact the average age on O was like 26 where as the average age on D was like 30. You replace the old. period. Did we not just use 4 1st rounders on O the 3 years prior? Houston tried the drafting all O and it didn't work. Oh and lets not forget Mike Nugent. OMFG. We had some huge wholes to fill on D and they did it. We just didn't have a lot of pick is what really hurt. Coples and Wilk where the right call and 95% of JETS fans where calling for D both those years. Now I was never a fan of the Wilson pick but that was BPA. He is a solid CB. Rodger Saffold and McCluster where not 1st round projections. The Jets had Vlad over Safford and Jared Veldheer. So not a good call but we didn't need to draft 1st rounder to fail. Maybe your saying we should have went Best or Arrelious Benn? Yeah they are doing so much better then Wilson. Sorry maybe on the value chart the 1st is worth more then the rest but not in real life. This team has been hurt because we've drafted lite for like 4 out of 6 years. So now everyone is mad we have no depth. But that is because we spent pick on D not O in the 1st? Not getting the stance sorry.
    Last edited by Dreamers; 08-25-2012 at 12:25 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Crable View Post
    True, the Jets have done little to develop Sanchez and may have in fact ruined his career.

    The whole trading up and drafting of Sanchez underscores the inconsistencies between Jets ownership and the coaching staff. If you're going to hire a defensive coach and he wants to run a "ground & pound" offense, there was absolutely no need to draft a "franchise" quarterback. Any one of a number of journeymen QBs could have come in and done what the Jets have asked Sanchez to do. With no breaking-in period, no need for development, and a lot less financial resources tied up in the QB position. There is not, and never has been, anyone on the Jets staff qualified to develop a star QB.

    But, Woody fell in love with the pretty boy, Southern California, rockstar QB image that Sanchez had coming out of USC. And he thought that would help him sell out the new monstrosity of a stadium.

    In hindsight, if you were going to hire Rex as HC, the better thing to do would have been to break the bank and have Rex bring Ray Lewis with him (who was a free agent at the time) rather than Bart Scott. And have someone like Kyle Orton at QB making $8 million a year. Lewis would have sold just as many PSLs as Sanchez, and he may have been enough to get the Jets past Indy or Pittsburgh in one of those AFCCGs.

    I have nothing against Sanchez. In fact, I think he has what it takes to be a very good NFL QB. But, not on a defense-first, ground & pound team that has no idea how to develop and use a quarterback as an offensive weapon.

    Bottom line is, there was no reason to spend a top 5 draft pick and $20 million a year on a QB just to have him hand off and throw check-down passes...if he has time to throw at all.
    Very fair post.

    If they were going to trade up to take the guy--they should have made the WHOLE TEAM about him.

    They basically threw the keys to an Indy car to a kid who just got his drivers license and said--"see ya in 4 years--we're going to go concentrate on our NASCAR cars, go win the Indy 500 kid".

    _

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    I agree with you 100%

    This has been my thinking for the last three years!!!

    What sound team MOVES UP in the draft only to then basically begin to starve the very player they drafted...

    Answer = Either a dumb one or a team without a sound plan!!!

    Good Grief
    Spot on my friend.............

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Very fair post.

    If they were going to trade up to take the guy--they should have made the WHOLE TEAM about him.

    They basically threw the keys to an Indy car to a kid who just got his drivers license and said--"see ya in 4 years--we're going to go concentrate on our NASCAR cars, go win the Indy 500 kid".

    _
    I agree. The key is to make a decision about which way you're going, then commit 100% to that decision. The Jets never committed to Sanchez, and by not doing so, they hurt both the offense and the defense. The negative effect on the offense are obvious - no weapons, no true strenghts on that side of the ball. The negative for the defense is that the money committed to Sanchez could have been used to make the defense even better than it is.

    So, where do we go from here?

    Obviously, you play out this season with what you have and try to win as many games as possible. (I laugh at the ridiculous "tank the season", "cut this guy", "fire that guy" threads.) You try to play lights out defense, and you hope to catch lightning in a bottle on offense be it with Tebow running the Gimmick Cat, or with Stephen Hill suddenly blossoming...whatever. This year, you just hope to get lucky on offense.

    Barring a complete disaster this season (4 or fewer wins), I'd probably commit to Rex Ryan for several more years. Not that I think he's a great head coach, but I think we have enough talent in place that you don't just scrap the whole program and bring in someone new.

    If I commit to Rex, then I commit 100% to being a true smash-mouth football team. I pour my resources into the trenches and try to assemble the best offensive and defensive lines in football.

    I shop Revis this offseason and try to get multiple high-round draft picks while he is at the top of his game. Yes, he is our best player. Yes, he is a hall of famer. Yes, he is one of the top 3 defensive players in the league. But, he's going to want at least $15 million per year and I never commit that kind of money to a cornerback. Ever. Again, I pour my resources into the trenches. If I can't trade Revis, I have to let him walk after next season.

    I let Sanchez play out the next two seasons, then I let him walk - unless he is willing to stay for about 1/3 of what he's currently making. I bring in some journeyman QB who can manage a game.

    I think if the Jets really committed to defense and building up the O-line, they could be legitimate contenders by 2014.

    The other option would be to fire Rex and start all over with a whole new philosophy, but that would probably push contention out by another 2-3 years.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    I agree with you 100%

    This has been my thinking for the last three years!!!

    What sound team MOVES UP in the draft only to then basically begin to starve the very player they drafted...

    Answer = Either a dumb one or a team without a sound plan!!!

    Good Grief
    Only Da Jets!!!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Crable View Post
    True, the Jets have done little to develop Sanchez and may have in fact ruined his career.

    The whole trading up and drafting of Sanchez underscores the inconsistencies between Jets ownership and the coaching staff. If you're going to hire a defensive coach and he wants to run a "ground & pound" offense, there was absolutely no need to draft a "franchise" quarterback. Any one of a number of journeymen QBs could have come in and done what the Jets have asked Sanchez to do. With no breaking-in period, no need for development, and a lot less financial resources tied up in the QB position. There is not, and never has been, anyone on the Jets staff qualified to develop a star QB.

    But, Woody fell in love with the pretty boy, Southern California, rockstar QB image that Sanchez had coming out of USC. And he thought that would help him sell out the new monstrosity of a stadium.

    In hindsight, if you were going to hire Rex as HC, the better thing to do would have been to break the bank and have Rex bring Ray Lewis with him (who was a free agent at the time) rather than Bart Scott. And have someone like Kyle Orton at QB making $8 million a year. Lewis would have sold just as many PSLs as Sanchez, and he may have been enough to get the Jets past Indy or Pittsburgh in one of those AFCCGs.

    I have nothing against Sanchez. In fact, I think he has what it takes to be a very good NFL QB. But, not on a defense-first, ground & pound team that has no idea how to develop and use a quarterback as an offensive weapon.

    Bottom line is, there was no reason to spend a top 5 draft pick and $20 million a year on a QB just to have him hand off and throw check-down passes...if he has time to throw at all.
    I agree with you 100%

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    [B][SIZE="3"]

    What sound team MOVES UP in the draft only to then basically begin to starve the very player they drafted...
    This.

    Perfect imagery.

    _

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    OK it had something to do with the fact the average age on O was like 26 where as the average age on D was like 30. You replace the old. period. Did we not just use 4 1st rounders on O the 3 years prior? Houston tried the drafting all O and it didn't work. Oh and lets not forget Mike Nugent. OMFG. We had some huge wholes to fill on D and they did it. We just didn't have a lot of pick is what really hurt. Coples and Wilk where the right call and 95% of JETS fans where calling for D both those years. Now I was never a fan of the Wilson pick but that was BPA. He is a solid CB. Rodger Saffold and McCluster where not 1st round projections. The Jets had Vlad over Safford and Jared Veldheer. So not a good call but we didn't need to draft 1st rounder to fail. Maybe your saying we should have went Best or Arrelious Benn? Yeah they are doing so much better then Wilson. Sorry maybe on the value chart the 1st is worth more then the rest but not in real life. This team has been hurt because we've drafted lite for like 4 out of 6 years. So now everyone is mad we have no depth. But that is because we spent pick on D not O in the 1st? Not getting the stance sorry.
    Good post, but sadly doesn't fit into people's agenda.

    Sanchez wasn't the BEGINNING of our offensive transformation, he was the "end" (or at least middle). I remember when Brick and Mangold were drafted -- the reasoning was get the line in order BEFORE you draft a QB, not after. Keller was also a recent draft pick, and has been Sanchez's safety net since he's been here. We used draft picks to get Edwards/Holmes -- would it have been any different if we'd used those picks to move up in the crapshoot known as the draft?

    I fully expect next year to focus on the offense. Until then, I'd rather take our current team than a weakened defense with a HOPEFULLY improved offense . . .

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    OK it had something to do with the fact the average age on O was like 26 where as the average age on D was like 30. You replace the old. period. Did we not just use 4 1st rounders on O the 3 years prior? Houston tried the drafting all O and it didn't work. Oh and lets not forget Mike Nugent. OMFG. We had some huge wholes to fill on D and they did it. We just didn't have a lot of pick is what really hurt. Coples and Wilk where the right call and 95% of JETS fans where calling for D both those years. Now I was never a fan of the Wilson pick but that was BPA. He is a solid CB. Rodger Saffold and McCluster where not 1st round projections. The Jets had Vlad over Safford and Jared Veldheer. So not a good call but we didn't need to draft 1st rounder to fail. Maybe your saying we should have went Best or Arrelious Benn? Yeah they are doing so much better then Wilson. Sorry maybe on the value chart the 1st is worth more then the rest but not in real life. This team has been hurt because we've drafted lite for like 4 out of 6 years. So now everyone is mad we have no depth. But that is because we spent pick on D not O in the 1st? Not getting the stance sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    Good post, but sadly doesn't fit into people's agenda.

    Sanchez wasn't the BEGINNING of our offensive transformation, he was the "end" (or at least middle). I remember when Brick and Mangold were drafted -- the reasoning was get the line in order BEFORE you draft a QB, not after. Keller was also a recent draft pick, and has been Sanchez's safety net since he's been here. We used draft picks to get Edwards/Holmes -- would it have been any different if we'd used those picks to move up in the crapshoot known as the draft?

    I fully expect next year to focus on the offense. Until then, I'd rather take our current team than a weakened defense with a HOPEFULLY improved offense . . .


  14. #34
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    IMO this is a great thread because people are talking out here with differing views without insulting each other....

    Nice... Very nice

  15. #35
    Good Grief Charlie Brown You are right! Yes sometimes a thread isn't too bad to read all the different opinions.

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