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Thread: Pass Rush: Jets vs. Giants

  1. #1

    Pass Rush: Jets vs. Giants

    I've seen many posters on here allude to the Giants pass rush as the gold-standard. As a Giants fan, I think the "rush" half of the term is somewhat true but not entirely. The Giants pass rush does have a habit of disappearing in games. I thought New England actually blocked them pretty well in the Super Bowl, for the most part. While the Giants undoubtedly have a very good pass rush in terms of sacks, pressures, hits on the Quarterback, etc., I don't think these types of measures tell the whole story as to why they are effective.

    First, we need to look at the types of players the Giants and their scouting department look for on the Defensive Line. The Giants like tall players, we know. Canty, Tuck, Pierre-Paul, Joseph, and Kiwanuka to name a few, are all over 6'4". The Giants also like long-wingspan players - look at Pierre-Paul, Tuck, Kiwanuka, Canty, and even Umenyiora despite his relatively short height (6'3"). Athleticism is also valued as we see with the big four DEs and even Joseph.

    While these attributes surely help to get pressure and sacks on opposing Quarterbacks they also have other side-effects that may make conditions for these Quarterbacks even more difficult to operate under. Something that people who watch Giants games may notice is that QBs for other teams seem to make a lot of errant throws to open receivers. One of the reasons for this is that the athleticism of all of these rushers makes it relatively easy for them to run past opposing blockers. This often takes the form of the offensive tackle simply riding the DE to the outside and the Quarterback stepping up to avoid the rush. Of course, this may seem like no big deal as the Quarterback can still find a lane to throw the ball. However, many NFL Quarterbacks look to find a rhythm by dropping back, setting their feet and throwing the ball consistently. When a Quarterback is always having to step up, aside a bit, or even backwards - when the rush is coming from the inside - he's unable to set and throw comfortably in the pocket no matter how open his receivers are downfield.

    Another factor stated above - and that Brady made mention of in the Super Bowl on the NFL films microphone - was the wingspan and arm-length of the Giants' rushers. He likened it to "throwing in a forest." This is another reason why you see so many uncharacteristically inaccurate throws from Quarterbacks playing against the Giants. Even when there is a stalemate up front, he has to be careful throwing the ball in between the pass rushers' waving arms.

    Looking at the Jets current pass rush personnel, I actually see more similarities than you might expect. The Jets too, also seem to value tall, longer armed rushers. See Coples, Wilkerson, Maybin, and even Pace. The Jets also seem to be going in the direction of more athleticism up front with the selections of Wilkerson and Coples the past two seasons. The continued development of Wilkerson and addition of Coples should help them quite a bit in - not necessarily generating sacks, but keeping Quarterbacks out of rhythm and throwing the ball with a comfortable passing lane in the pocket. I don't know that the Jets will necessarily get more sacks and pressures/hits on Quarterbacks this year but I would expect the rush to be more effective and with the Jets secondary, I certainly could see many more turnovers being generated on interceptions.

    I like the Coples pick a lot, and think he'll have quite an impact on this team, even as a rookie. I also like Wilkerson and expect him to have a big second year. However, I still think at the end of the season we will see that the Jets are one outside pass rusher away from having a big-time rush. Maybin showed flashes late last year but I can't ignore three disappointing season in Buffalo. He has good length and a good motor but is not a tremendous athlete. Overall, I think the defense should be very good and in the top five with an improved pass rush.

  2. #2
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    You make some excellent points. Especially the Brady reference. Vick has said similar things. He says he has a rough time with them when they get their hands up. I think one of the reasons why NE took Chandler Jones is bc they saw how the length of the Giants effected Brady.

    But the biggest difference between our guys and theirs is that every one of their big 4 (Osi, Tuck, JPP, Kiwanuka) is longer (arms) and more athletic than any of our guys with the exception of Maybin, but Maybin is significantly smaller in terms of weight.

    And Coples' arms are not long relative to his height. If you read some scouting reports on him, they mention that. Wilk on the other hand has very long arms but he is not as athletic as any of the Giants guys.

    I also think it is important to mention that our team is built differently on defense. We prefer guys that are slightly bigger (weight) b.c of the style of defense we play. The Giants are almost exclusively a 4-3 so they draft players that are 4-3 edge rushers. So it is not really an apples to apples comparison. Although I think Tuck and JPP could play in any defense.
    Last edited by DDNYjets; 08-26-2012 at 02:16 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    You make some excellent points. Especially the Brady reference. Vick has said similar things. He says he has a rough time with them when they get their hands up. I think one of the reasons why NE took Chandler Jones is bc they saw how the length of the Giants effected Brady.
    Even when the Giants ran a 3-4, they always looked for length in the ends and OLBs and Belichick is from that system (George Young, Tom Boisture) as well. Just look at Seymour, Warren, and Vrabel. Reese has the same Boisture/Young lineage.

    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets

    And Coples' arms are not long relative to his height. If you read some scouting reports on him, they mention that. Wilk on the other hand has very long arms but he is not as athletic as any of the Giants guys.
    I know what you're saying but anytime a guy is 6'6", whether his arms are relatively short or not, he is not easy to throw the ball around.

    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets

    I also think it is important to mention that our team is built differently on defense. We prefer guys that are slightly bigger (weight) b.c of the style of defense we play. The Giants are almost exclusively a 4-3 so they draft players that are 4-3 edge rushers. So it is not really an apples to apples comparison. Although I think Tuck and JPP could play in any defense.
    From what I'm hearing, Pierre-Paul is upto around 290 lbs. this year. He would play end in the 3-4. Kiwanuka and Umenyiora would be OLBs. I'm not sure Tuck would fit at either end or OLB in a 3-4, though he has been very good inside in spot duty.

  4. #4
    the jets pass rush has disappeared for nearly a decade vs. the giants rush disappearing for parts of a game

  5. #5
    If anyone is watching the jets preseason against Carolina tonight couples, Ellis and maybin are making our pass rush look a 100 times better than last year lets hope this translate to sacks in regular season!

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