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Thread: Cimini: Roster analysis: Curious and surprising

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by lageman4ever View Post
    I think Ray Ray gives a good explanation for why the team kept Smith. However that's not what I would have done: Smith would have been sent packing and Allen put on the 53.
    For all of Smith's liabilities as a cover S, he is a VERY Good box safety, and an even better ST's players, he's one of the leaders and a captain of the ST's unit, a Westoff favorite, you don't just send guys like that packing over a 6th round hybrid LB/S who is still learning the position.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    For all of Smith's liabilities as a cover S, he is a VERY Good box safety, and an even better ST's players, he's one of the leaders and a captain of the ST's unit, a Westoff favorite, you don't just send guys like that packing over a 6th round hybrid LB/S who is still learning the position.
    Gimmie a break Ray......a Very good in the box safety?? Yeah, ok

    Give me one play last season where he made a great play.....I honestly do not remember one

    All I remember are his disaster plays, and teams constantly picking on him on 3rd and long......Complete liability when on the field on defense

    He's not even a great special teams player......Good ST player? yes, but not good enough to justify a roster spot when he is an absolute liability on defense

    Put it this way.....It he were cut today and the Pats picked him up to start as an "in the box" safety, I would be jumping for joy

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by King Koopa View Post
    Gimmie a break Ray......a Very good in the box safety?? Yeah, ok

    Give me one play last season where he made a great play.....I honestly do not remember one

    All I remember are his disaster plays, and teams constantly picking on him on 3rd and long......Complete liability when on the field on defense

    He's not even a great special teams player......Good ST player? yes, but not good enough to justify a roster spot when he is an absolute liability on defense

    Put it this way.....It he were cut today and the Pats picked him up to start as an "in the box" safety, I would be jumping for joy
    He is very good against the run, strong player in the running lanes, and hits like a truck. I said he's a liability in covrage, that isn't his game, but in the box, against the run, he's very good.

    And he IS a very good ST's player, this is unquestioned, one of Westoff's favorites.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    For all of Smith's liabilities as a cover S, he is a VERY Good box safety, and an even better ST's players, he's one of the leaders and a captain of the ST's unit, a Westoff favorite, you don't just send guys like that packing over a 6th round hybrid LB/S who is still learning the position.
    I have to agree with Koopa here Ray. All I ever remember Smith doing last year were penalties or bone-head plays.

    I'll give you ST and I'm sure Westoff had a big part in keeping Smith. But a 2M salary for a ST guy ? That seems a bit much.

    I'd much rather have a developmental guy who's flashed talent like Allen. Hopefully we can keep him on the PS.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    He is very good against the run, strong player in the running lanes, and hits like a truck. I said he's a liability in covrage, that isn't his game, but in the box, against the run, he's very good.

    And he IS a very good ST's player, this is unquestioned, one of Westoff's favorites.
    All that is true. I have to give Smith his due at stopping the run. I just remembered those failures in coverage.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    The solution to this problem would be to draft better players.

    Tanny's draft record since he started has been pretty crappy, even giving him full credit for two long-term starters in 2006.
    I think spotty may be more accurate.
    Revis
    Mangold
    Ferguson
    Slauson
    Ellis
    Wilkerson
    Coples
    Harris
    Keller

    The huge bust is Gholston. Crappy? hmmm, no.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken shroy View Post
    I think spotty may be more accurate.
    Revis
    Mangold
    Ferguson
    Slauson
    Ellis
    Wilkerson
    Coples
    Harris
    Keller

    The huge bust is Gholston. Crappy? hmmm, no.
    BTW, I left Sanchez off the list because the jury is still out.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    Not true..Only the one's that are negative no matter what the team does.. Want to see one?? Look in the mirror..
    Now that's an impressive post.

  9. #69
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    Did (or can) anyone post a snapshot of what our roster & ps look like at this point?

    The NYJETS website depth chart is not up to date (still showing guys who are gone).

    I can't keep track of all these cuts and waiver pick ups.

  10. #70
    I think this is correct

    *******************************

    DB Yeremiah Bell
    DB LaRon Landry
    DB Eric Smith
    DB Antonio Cromartie
    DB Ellis Lankster
    DB Darrelle Revis
    DB Isaiah Trufant
    DB Kyle Wilson
    DB Josh Bush
    DL Quinton Coples
    DL Mike DeVito
    DL Muhammad Wilkerson
    DL Kenrick Ellis
    DL Damon Harrison
    DL Sione Pouha
    DL Isaako Aaitui
    FB John Conner
    K Nick Folk
    LB Bryan Thomas
    LB Nick Bellore
    LB Demario Davis
    LB David Harris
    LB Josh Mauga
    LB Aaron Maybin
    LB Garrett McIntyre
    LB Calvin Pace
    LB Bart Scott
    LS Tanner Purdum
    OL Brandon Moore
    OL Caleb Schlauderaff
    OL Matt Slauson
    OL D'Brickashaw Ferguson
    OL Austin Howard
    OL Dennis Landolt
    OL Nick Mangold
    OL Vladimir Ducasse
    OL Jason Smith
    P T.J. Conley
    QB Greg McElroy
    QB Mark Sanchez
    QB Tim Tebow
    RB Shonn Greene
    RB Joe McKnight
    RB Bilal Powell
    TE Konrad Reuland
    TE Jeff Cumberland
    TE Dustin Keller
    WR Clyde Gates
    WR Stephen Hill
    WR Santonio Holmes
    WR Jeremy Kerley
    WR Chaz Schilens
    WR Patrick Turner

    **************************

    PS Donnie Fletcher
    PS Marcus Dowtin
    PS Ricky Sapp
    PS Paul Cornick
    PS Hayden Smith
    PS Royce Pollard
    PS Jordan White

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by IndianaJet View Post
    I love some of the people on this board.

    B!tch about the front office because they released a bunch of 6th and 7th rounders b/c that proves the FO is awful at scouting. In the same breath b!tch about the front office for cutting a guy (Dixon) b/c an undrafted rookie outperformed him and made the team......

    I'd love to know the final status of all 6th and 7th rounders drafted this year. I'm sure the Jets are the only team to cut these guys......
    I did it from the Jets pick of Ganaway...Someone is more than welcome to fill in from the beginning of the 6th Round - pick 171..

    And this should be revisited next yr at this time and see how many on 53 today make it to a 2nd yr...

    From pick 202 (Ganaway) to pick 253..

    202 New York Jets Terrance Ganaway cut
    203 New York Jets Robert Griffin cut
    204 Cleveland Browns Emmanuel Acho IR
    205 Cleveland Browns Billy Winn 53 man
    206 Indianapolis Colts LaVon Brazill 53 man
    207 Carolina Panthers Brad Nortman 53 man (Punter)

    7th Round
    208 Indianapolis Colts Justin Anderson IR
    209 St. Louis Rams Aaron Brown cut - PS
    210 Minnesota Vikings Audie Cole 53 man
    211 Tennessee Titans Scott Solomon 53 man
    212 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Michael Smith 53 man
    213 Washington Redskins Richard Crawford 53 man
    214 Indianapolis Colts Tim Fugger Cut
    215 Miami Dolphins Kheeston Randall 53 man
    216 Carolina Panthers D. J. Campbell 53 man
    217 Washington Redskins Jordan Bernstine 53 man
    218 Kansas City Chiefs Jerome Long cut - PS
    219 Minnesota Vikings Trevor Guyton DE cut
    220 Chicago Bears Greg McCoy cut
    221 Arizona Cardinals Nate Potter 53 man
    222 Dallas Cowboys Caleb McSurdy cut
    223 Detroit Lions Travis Lewis 53 man
    224 New England Patriots Alfonzo Dennard 53 man
    225 Seattle Seahawks J. R. Sweezy 53 man
    226 San Diego Chargers David Molk 53 man
    227 Miami Dolphins Rishard Matthews 53 man
    228 Jacksonville Jaguars Jeris Pendleton 53 man
    229 Philadelphia Eagles Bryce Brown 53 man
    230 Oakland Raiders Nathan Stupar cut - PS
    231 Pittsburgh Steelers Toney Clemons cut - PS
    232 Seattle Seahawks Greg Scruggs 53 man
    233 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Drake Dunsmore Cut
    234 New Orleans Saints Marcel Jones 53 man
    235 New England Patriots Jeremy Ebert Cut
    236 Baltimore Ravens DeAngelo Tyson 53 man
    237 San Francisco 49ers Cam Johnson Cut - PS
    238 Kansas City Chiefs Junior Hemingway cut - PS
    239 New York Giants Markus Kuhn 53 man
    240 Pittsburgh Steelers David Paulson 53 man
    241 Green Bay Packers Andrew Datko cut
    242 New York Jets Antonio Allen cut
    243 Green Bay Packers B. J. Coleman cut
    244 New York Jets Jordan White cut
    245 Cleveland Browns Trevin Wade 53 man
    246 Pittsburgh Steelers Terrence Frederick cut
    247 Cleveland Browns Brad Smelley Cut
    248 Pittsburgh Steelers Kelvin Beachum 53 man
    249 Atlanta Falcons Travian Robertson 53 man
    250 San Diego Chargers Edwin Baker cut - PS
    251 Buffalo Bills John Potter K 53 man
    252 St. Louis Rams Daryl Richardson 53 man
    253 Indianapolis Colts Chandler Harnish 53 man

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/tracke...-round-input:6

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    I did it from the Jets pick of Ganaway...Someone is more than welcome to fill in from the beginning of the 6th Round - pick 171..

    And this should be revisited next yr at this time and see how many on 53 today make it to a 2nd yr...

    From pick 202 (Ganaway) to pick 253..

    202 New York Jets Terrance Ganaway cut
    203 New York Jets Robert Griffin cut
    204 Cleveland Browns Emmanuel Acho IR
    205 Cleveland Browns Billy Winn 53 man
    206 Indianapolis Colts LaVon Brazill 53 man
    207 Carolina Panthers Brad Nortman 53 man (Punter)

    7th Round
    208 Indianapolis Colts Justin Anderson IR
    209 St. Louis Rams Aaron Brown cut - PS
    210 Minnesota Vikings Audie Cole 53 man
    211 Tennessee Titans Scott Solomon 53 man
    212 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Michael Smith 53 man
    213 Washington Redskins Richard Crawford 53 man
    214 Indianapolis Colts Tim Fugger Cut
    215 Miami Dolphins Kheeston Randall 53 man
    216 Carolina Panthers D. J. Campbell 53 man
    217 Washington Redskins Jordan Bernstine 53 man
    218 Kansas City Chiefs Jerome Long cut - PS
    219 Minnesota Vikings Trevor Guyton DE cut
    220 Chicago Bears Greg McCoy cut
    221 Arizona Cardinals Nate Potter 53 man
    222 Dallas Cowboys Caleb McSurdy cut
    223 Detroit Lions Travis Lewis 53 man
    224 New England Patriots Alfonzo Dennard 53 man
    225 Seattle Seahawks J. R. Sweezy 53 man
    226 San Diego Chargers David Molk 53 man
    227 Miami Dolphins Rishard Matthews 53 man
    228 Jacksonville Jaguars Jeris Pendleton 53 man
    229 Philadelphia Eagles Bryce Brown 53 man
    230 Oakland Raiders Nathan Stupar cut - PS
    231 Pittsburgh Steelers Toney Clemons cut - PS
    232 Seattle Seahawks Greg Scruggs 53 man
    233 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Drake Dunsmore Cut
    234 New Orleans Saints Marcel Jones 53 man
    235 New England Patriots Jeremy Ebert Cut
    236 Baltimore Ravens DeAngelo Tyson 53 man
    237 San Francisco 49ers Cam Johnson Cut - PS
    238 Kansas City Chiefs Junior Hemingway cut - PS
    239 New York Giants Markus Kuhn 53 man
    240 Pittsburgh Steelers David Paulson 53 man
    241 Green Bay Packers Andrew Datko cut
    242 New York Jets Antonio Allen cut
    243 Green Bay Packers B. J. Coleman cut
    244 New York Jets Jordan White cut
    245 Cleveland Browns Trevin Wade 53 man
    246 Pittsburgh Steelers Terrence Frederick cut
    247 Cleveland Browns Brad Smelley Cut
    248 Pittsburgh Steelers Kelvin Beachum 53 man
    249 Atlanta Falcons Travian Robertson 53 man
    250 San Diego Chargers Edwin Baker cut - PS
    251 Buffalo Bills John Potter K 53 man
    252 St. Louis Rams Daryl Richardson 53 man
    253 Indianapolis Colts Chandler Harnish 53 man

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/tracke...-round-input:6
    Great work CMART! Would love to see this from say 2009 or 2010 and where those players are. If, as Gaffney points out, that 30 percent of the league is undrafted (I heard 50), then many of these players are probably still in the league.


    We're not looking for Tom Brady, Wes Welker , Terrel Davis or Marquis Colston, those are almost luck but my point is simply that these should not be throw away picks and that as much care should go into a 6th rounder as a 2nd rounder.
    Last edited by southparkcpa; 09-02-2012 at 12:04 PM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    He is very good against the run, strong player in the running lanes, and hits like a truck. I said he's a liability in covrage, that isn't his game, but in the box, against the run, he's very good.

    And he IS a very good ST's player, this is unquestioned, one of Westoff's favorites.
    Right ... Unless the runner is named Tebow .... Remember that run ???

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunnie View Post
    Right ... Unless the runner is named Tebow .... Remember that run ???
    Tebow did that to several teams, not just the Jets, and not just Smith.

    Your point is?

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    I did it from the Jets pick of Ganaway...Someone is more than welcome to fill in from the beginning of the 6th Round - pick 171..

    And this should be revisited next yr at this time and see how many on 53 today make it to a 2nd yr...

    From pick 202 (Ganaway) to pick 253..

    202 New York Jets Terrance Ganaway cut
    203 New York Jets Robert Griffin cut
    204 Cleveland Browns Emmanuel Acho IR
    205 Cleveland Browns Billy Winn 53 man
    206 Indianapolis Colts LaVon Brazill 53 man
    207 Carolina Panthers Brad Nortman 53 man (Punter)

    7th Round
    208 Indianapolis Colts Justin Anderson IR
    209 St. Louis Rams Aaron Brown cut - PS
    210 Minnesota Vikings Audie Cole 53 man
    211 Tennessee Titans Scott Solomon 53 man
    212 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Michael Smith 53 man
    213 Washington Redskins Richard Crawford 53 man
    214 Indianapolis Colts Tim Fugger Cut
    215 Miami Dolphins Kheeston Randall 53 man
    216 Carolina Panthers D. J. Campbell 53 man
    217 Washington Redskins Jordan Bernstine 53 man
    218 Kansas City Chiefs Jerome Long cut - PS
    219 Minnesota Vikings Trevor Guyton DE cut
    220 Chicago Bears Greg McCoy cut
    221 Arizona Cardinals Nate Potter 53 man
    222 Dallas Cowboys Caleb McSurdy cut
    223 Detroit Lions Travis Lewis 53 man
    224 New England Patriots Alfonzo Dennard 53 man
    225 Seattle Seahawks J. R. Sweezy 53 man
    226 San Diego Chargers David Molk 53 man
    227 Miami Dolphins Rishard Matthews 53 man
    228 Jacksonville Jaguars Jeris Pendleton 53 man
    229 Philadelphia Eagles Bryce Brown 53 man
    230 Oakland Raiders Nathan Stupar cut - PS
    231 Pittsburgh Steelers Toney Clemons cut - PS
    232 Seattle Seahawks Greg Scruggs 53 man
    233 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Drake Dunsmore Cut
    234 New Orleans Saints Marcel Jones 53 man
    235 New England Patriots Jeremy Ebert Cut
    236 Baltimore Ravens DeAngelo Tyson 53 man
    237 San Francisco 49ers Cam Johnson Cut - PS
    238 Kansas City Chiefs Junior Hemingway cut - PS
    239 New York Giants Markus Kuhn 53 man
    240 Pittsburgh Steelers David Paulson 53 man
    241 Green Bay Packers Andrew Datko cut
    242 New York Jets Antonio Allen cut
    243 Green Bay Packers B. J. Coleman cut
    244 New York Jets Jordan White cut
    245 Cleveland Browns Trevin Wade 53 man
    246 Pittsburgh Steelers Terrence Frederick cut
    247 Cleveland Browns Brad Smelley Cut
    248 Pittsburgh Steelers Kelvin Beachum 53 man
    249 Atlanta Falcons Travian Robertson 53 man
    250 San Diego Chargers Edwin Baker cut - PS
    251 Buffalo Bills John Potter K 53 man
    252 St. Louis Rams Daryl Richardson 53 man
    253 Indianapolis Colts Chandler Harnish 53 man

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/tracke...-round-input:6
    Excellent work. Pretty impressive that 29 out of 50 pics made their respective 53 man rosters.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    Excellent work. Pretty impressive that 29 out of 50 pics made their respective 53 man rosters.
    Let's recount those numbers next Saturday. I think a few more of those guys may get cut as the mini-draft proceeds. But even considering that, it's higher than I would have expected.

    Update: Jordan White is on our PS. Allen should be by tonight.

    You might also want to indicate when a cut player was signed by another team.
    Last edited by nycdan; 09-02-2012 at 01:27 PM.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Great work CMART! Would love to see this from say 2009 or 2010 and where those players are. If, as Gaffney points out, that 30 percent of the league is undrafted (I heard 50), then many of these players are probably still in the league.


    We're not looking for Tom Brady, Wes Welker , Terrel Davis or Marquis Colston, those are almost luck but my point is simply that these should not be throw away picks and that as much care should go into a 6th rounder as a 2nd rounder.
    I think the idea is for those players to become reliable backups. We could have used some backups on the OL last year. No excuse that losing our Center sent the offense into a tailspin for a couple of games. And having to march out an overwhelmed RT every week was also an indictment of our depth.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    Excellent work. Pretty impressive that 29 out of 50 pics made their respective 53 man rosters.
    I'm not defending or thrashing the Jets on this..

    But let's not overlook the effect of a new coaching staff / GM and their normal process...To try and clean out as many "marginal" higher priced players left from the previous regime with their own players...Kickers and Punters show up in the 6th and 7th..Not sure how many this yr..I know of at least 2 (Punter in CAR and Kicker in Buff).

    And don't be surprised to see some that are on the 53 today being shuffled on and off a teams PS during the course of the season..

  19. #79
    Dixon was pass rushing situations mainly and word out of camp is that in practice and in pre season he wasn't really doing much. Rex thought he'd progress this year and he looked flat and didn't develop any moves. He didn't do much in the off-season to improve. The Dixon move was made for the new NT Aaitui we picked up who's potential has a higher ceiling than Dixon and he's a stronger presence. Rex just has to fix the rawness. Now Ellis & Devito play a ton inside and we move Coples around anyway as well as Mo. Rex wants flexible guys who can play outside and inside or strong DT's who generate a push. The new guy and Ellis do that and Dixon not so much. We didn't lose depth at all with the new pick up. Add that with Bryan Thomas playing a little DE in 4-3 looks with Coples playing inside a bit with some hybrid looks and you're not looking at much time for Dixon. The key here is Coples. Coples is the reason we cut Dixon cause he's looked so good and so strong that his versatility adds on to depth and less reps for Dixon.

    It wasn't a money situation at ALL ... Tanny is a cap specialist fellas. This was a Football decision mainly ... If you don't agree with the football decision then that's different but don't assume. Cimini did cause he thinks logically as a football decision it doesn't add up but we all know he's never been the sharpest knife in the draw.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    thoughts on 4 wasted picks?
    You guys criticize Tanny for holding on to 6th and 7th rounders too long because they WERE draft picks, and then criticize when he does the opposite.

    Go figure.

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