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Thread: Cimini: Roster analysis: Curious and surprising

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by section314 View Post
    This post of Cimini's article and the responses to it are just about the most asinine things I've ever seen on this board, and that says alot. The fact that people are arguing that the Jets cut the 900th player drafted, let Marcus Dixon go, didn't put Jordan White on the practice squad etc. and that these moves will have an impact on this team, is nuts.
    How about focusing on the players that will truly decide the fate of this team....the Qb who we are paying like Aaron Rodgers and who has been a turnover machine for 3 years? The receiver who is being paid like a star, but who can't get open and drops too many balls? The "all pro" linemen that can't block? The defense that talks a big game, but when you really need them, disappears? These are the real issues for this season, and the rest of this stuff is nonsense. As they say, keep your eye on the ball.
    I don't have major problems with those moves.

    I'm more curious about the signings of the WR/KR and the TE. Seems like there would be better options out there.

  2. #82
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    With all the complaints about who we let go, has anyone taken time to consider we may have "stolen" one from the Dolphins, the person of KR/WR Edmund/Clyde Gates? I don't know why they cut him; maybe they felt they had better, more developed players ahead of him. Are thy right? Time will tell, but there is no denying this guy has ability and can flat out FLY.

    He was drafted by Tony Sparanos regime in the 4th round of the 2011 draft.
    Here is more....

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6...outing-reports

    Alabama speedster, Julio Jones ran a blazing 4.34 40 at the NFL combine but even that effort wasn’t enough to claim the top spot amongst the 2011 class of WRs. That honor went to Division II Abilene Christian WR, Edmund Gates who blew the competition away with a 4.31 time.

    Gates had a career year in his senior season for the Wildcats as he earned All-American honors by hauling in 66 passes for 1,182 yards and 13 touchdowns.

    Gates is a great all around athlete as he was an NBA prospect at Tyler (Texas) JC before transferring to ACU.

    Gates has the speed and hands to become an elite home-run-hitting WR in the NFL. But, he will need to bulk up and refine his route running in order to be a productive member of an NFL team.

    If former ACU WR, Johnny Knox’s NFL success is any indication Gates will not have too much trouble adjusting to the tougher competition.

    Edmond Gates might be small-school, but he has the potential to be big-time in the NFL.

    - Gil Brandt, NFL.com Courtesy CBS Sports


    Another report.


    Adequate height and overall size. Elite speed. Quick off the snap and gets up to full speed quickly. A serious deep threat. Decent strength for his size. Capable of fighting off press coverage. Some experience on special teams. NFL bloodlines; cousin is Bengals running back Bernard Scott.
    Weaknesses:
    Missed time with a leg injury in 2008. Very raw in his route running ability. Wasn’t tested much in college because most D-II corners simply couldn’t compete with his speed. Will turn 25 in June. Limited experience in the sport; a former JUCO basketball player who originally quit football after his freshman year of high school. Possibly some character concerns; asked not to return to JUCO basketball team after his freshman year (reasons unknown). Had a tough childhood as his father served 18 years in prison for murder
    Comments:
    Gates is an intriguing prospect due to his impressive pure speed. Even though he’s a developmental prospect, he has the ability to make an impact early on simply because opposing defenses will have to constantly be aware of him as a deep threat. In time, he could develop into a Mike Wallace type weapon. http://draftace.com/blog/2011/03/23/...outing-report/

    Of course he could be one of those guys that never pan out but I love the move and can see him and Hill creating problems for defenses this year.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Black View Post
    With all the complaints about who we let go, has anyone taken time to consider we may have "stolen" one from the Dolphins, the person of KR/WR Edmund/Clyde Gates? I don't know why they cut him; maybe they felt they had better, more developed players ahead of him. Are thy right? Time will tell, but there is no denying this guy has ability and can flat out FLY.

    He was drafted by Tony Sparanos regime in the 4th round of the 2011 draft.
    Here is more....

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6...outing-reports

    Alabama speedster, Julio Jones ran a blazing 4.34 40 at the NFL combine but even that effort wasn’t enough to claim the top spot amongst the 2011 class of WRs. That honor went to Division II Abilene Christian WR, Edmund Gates who blew the competition away with a 4.31 time.

    Gates had a career year in his senior season for the Wildcats as he earned All-American honors by hauling in 66 passes for 1,182 yards and 13 touchdowns.

    Gates is a great all around athlete as he was an NBA prospect at Tyler (Texas) JC before transferring to ACU.

    Gates has the speed and hands to become an elite home-run-hitting WR in the NFL. But, he will need to bulk up and refine his route running in order to be a productive member of an NFL team.

    If former ACU WR, Johnny Knox’s NFL success is any indication Gates will not have too much trouble adjusting to the tougher competition.

    Edmond Gates might be small-school, but he has the potential to be big-time in the NFL.

    - Gil Brandt, NFL.com Courtesy CBS Sports


    Another report.


    Adequate height and overall size. Elite speed. Quick off the snap and gets up to full speed quickly. A serious deep threat. Decent strength for his size. Capable of fighting off press coverage. Some experience on special teams. NFL bloodlines; cousin is Bengals running back Bernard Scott.
    Weaknesses:
    Missed time with a leg injury in 2008. Very raw in his route running ability. Wasn’t tested much in college because most D-II corners simply couldn’t compete with his speed. Will turn 25 in June. Limited experience in the sport; a former JUCO basketball player who originally quit football after his freshman year of high school. Possibly some character concerns; asked not to return to JUCO basketball team after his freshman year (reasons unknown). Had a tough childhood as his father served 18 years in prison for murder
    Comments:
    Gates is an intriguing prospect due to his impressive pure speed. Even though he’s a developmental prospect, he has the ability to make an impact early on simply because opposing defenses will have to constantly be aware of him as a deep threat. In time, he could develop into a Mike Wallace type weapon. http://draftace.com/blog/2011/03/23/...outing-report/

    Of course he could be one of those guys that never pan out but I love the move and can see him and Hill creating problems for defenses this year.
    So then the question becomes, why keep Schilens?

    Gives us 3 WR's with great speed but questionable skills. We sound like the Al Davis Raiders.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    So then the question becomes, why keep Schilens?

    Gives us 3 WR's with great speed but questionable skills. We sound like the Al Davis Raiders.
    Thanks, Commissioner Gordon. You just sent up the equivalent of the bat-signal for 90210.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn Jet View Post
    You guys criticize Tanny for holding on to 6th and 7th rounders too long because they WERE draft picks, and then criticize when he does the opposite.

    Go figure.
    I wanted CMARTS thoughts...I am not slamming Tanny for that. Would I like better..sure. BUT I have no REAL issue with it unless it occurred year in, year out.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Has to be part of it. I don't think he hurt his shoulder too bad and if there was something behavioral we would have heard about it.

    What I will say is that I have a lot of faith in Dunbar and his coaching ability.

    But it still doesn't add up for me. I hope we find out some more info soon.
    I liked the versatile Dixon, and thought he would make the team. But...

    Maybe Pouha's back will be a bothersome problem throughout the season. If so...then Adding Harrison and Isaako Aaitui, may be insurance depth if Pouha isn't 100% healthy. Also Harrison could end up replacing Pouha next year, behind Kenrick. Pouha is 34 y.o. And NT is a very physically demanding position. If Pouha's play falls off, then his CAP could be too high to keep him beyond this year.

    Again...Pouha-Kenrick-Harrison-Aaitui...and even DeVito...ALL five of these players can play the NT position. Kind of odd when you consider that the Jets will be playing more 4-3, and less of their 3-4 base D. So again...this may be partly connected to Pouha's health...and possibly because of DeVito's calf injury. I believe DeVito had some calf injury issues last year too.

    Also Jets obviously think Harrison can play now. See him as future NT depth behind Kenrick. And Jets may also see Harrison as having more potential as a disruptive force and penetrator...then Dixon.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    So then the question becomes, why keep Schilens?

    Gives us 3 WR's with great speed but questionable skills. We sound like the Al Davis Raiders.
    Schilens is a possession guy more physical, good height, and above average blocker. He's fast but real physical. Gates is a slot guy who's a burner but he's not half the blocker Schilens is. Some scouts question if Gates is even a Football player saying he lacks the toughness. Schilens is extra tough ... Gates is a prospect and high reward/low risk guy but there's too much ambiguity there. Schilens is legit and his biggest question is health. I don't know why this is even a question but then I just realized "Jordy is 52 years old and he's asking this" ... back in the leather helmet days receivers were receivers & were easily replaceable cause they all did the same thing. These days there's different type of receivers. Hopefully that helps you sir

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenReaper View Post
    I liked the versatile Dixon, and thought he would make the team. But...

    Maybe Pouha's back will be a bothersome problem throughout the season. If so...then Adding Harrison and Isaako Aaitui, may be insurance depth if Pouha isn't 100% healthy. Also Harrison could end up replacing Pouha next year, behind Kenrick. Pouha is 34 y.o. And NT is a very physically demanding position. If Pouha's play falls off, then his CAP could be too high to keep him beyond this year.

    Again...Pouha-Kenrick-Harrison-Aaitui...and even DeVito...ALL five of these players can play the NT position. Kind of odd when you consider that the Jets will be playing more 4-3, and less of their 3-4 base D. So again...this may be partly connected to Pouha's health...and possibly because of DeVito's calf injury. I believe DeVito had some calf injury issues last year too.

    Also Jets obviously think Harrison can play now. See him as future NT depth behind Kenrick. And Jets may also see Harrison as having more potential as a disruptive force and penetrator...then Dixon.
    I'm not saying you're saying this necessarily, but I think it's too rigid to say a NT is only suitable for a 3-4. When you play a 4-3, you can have two NT-type players at DT and still be extremely effective. Think Joe Klecko. So I think having all these guys on the roster makes sense if we're going to predominantly go 4-3. Especially with the presence of Wilkerson and Coples.

  9. #89
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    change we must

    listen up jet fans.we have to be blind not to see this ring around the rosie front office.guess who is waiting in the wings.none other then[ BILL POIIAN].he would be my choice to replace tanny & co.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadainianIMnotDONE View Post
    Schilens is a possession guy more physical, good height, and above average blocker. He's fast but real physical. Gates is a slot guy who's a burner but he's not half the blocker Schilens is. Some scouts question if Gates is even a Football player saying he lacks the toughness. Schilens is extra tough ... Gates is a prospect and high reward/low risk guy but there's too much ambiguity there. Schilens is legit and his biggest question is health. I don't know why this is even a question but then I just realized "Jordy is 52 years old and he's asking this" ... back in the leather helmet days receivers were receivers & were easily replaceable cause they all did the same thing. These days there's different type of receivers. Hopefully that helps you sir
    So out of our 6 WR's we have 2 prospects (Hill and Gates), one guy who has been a career PS/5th WR (Turner) and a guy who has never stayed healthy enough to even prove that he has NFL talent. I get it. You like Schilens. You and Sanjay Lal. We'll see if the "Glass Man" can stay healthy.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    I'm not saying you're saying this necessarily, but I think it's too rigid to say a NT is only suitable for a 3-4. When you play a 4-3, you can have two NT-type players at DT and still be extremely effective. Think Joe Klecko. So I think having all these guys on the roster makes sense if we're going to predominantly go 4-3. Especially with the presence of Wilkerson and Coples.
    Agree...all these players can be 4-3 DTs. I was more focused on the possibility of Pouha's health being a decision making factor, on why specifically Harrison and Isaako Aaitui over Dixon.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenReaper View Post
    Agree...all these players can be 4-3 DTs. I was more focused on the possibility of Pouha's health being a decision making factor, on why specifically Harrison and Isaako Aaitui over Dixon.
    Don't forget DeVito is a FA next season as well. He'll likely be too pricey to keep, especially if we have minimum salary guys doing just as good a job.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    I did it from the Jets pick of Ganaway...Someone is more than welcome to fill in from the beginning of the 6th Round - pick 171..

    And this should be revisited next yr at this time and see how many on 53 today make it to a 2nd yr...

    From pick 202 (Ganaway) to pick 253..

    202 New York Jets Terrance Ganaway cut
    203 New York Jets Robert Griffin cut
    204 Cleveland Browns Emmanuel Acho IR
    205 Cleveland Browns Billy Winn 53 man
    206 Indianapolis Colts LaVon Brazill 53 man
    207 Carolina Panthers Brad Nortman 53 man (Punter)
    .
    .
    .

    excellent work CMart - a very helpful contribution to the discussion

  14. #94
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    Vrentas, Mehta and Cimini report that the Jets signed Antonio Allen to the practice squad.

    Hadn't seen this posted.

    Edit: I see this was posted this afternoon in the "tweets" thread. Sorry.
    Last edited by Jordy; 09-03-2012 at 12:15 AM.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by lageman4ever View Post
    I can't believe the $150 K savings argument. It just doesn't make any sense.

    The Jets must believe the new NT will be a better player and better fit given recent injuries & DeVito leaving next season
    Its certainly possible. We did after all have high expectations last season with glaring weaknesses, safety, rt, backup o linemen, cough cough. Yet we didnt do anything and went into the season $10M under the cap.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    So out of our 6 WR's we have 2 prospects (Hill and Gates), one guy who has been a career PS/5th WR (Turner) and a guy who has never stayed healthy enough to even prove that he has NFL talent. I get it. You like Schilens. You and Sanjay Lal. We'll see if the "Glass Man" can stay healthy.
    Schilens is a good receiver. If healthy, he has the potential for a 10 catch season. But thats a big if, since hes certainly never healthy. I think 5 catches seems more reasonable.

    This is one of the guys I never understood why any team would go near him. The guy is never healthy and when he rarely is he doesnt do anything. And thats even with playing on a team like Raiders who have just as bad if not worse receiving core than us.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetglass View Post
    Schilens is a good receiver. If healthy, he has the potential for a 10 catch season. But thats a big if, since hes certainly never healthy. I think 5 catches seems more reasonable.

    This is one of the guys I never understood why any team would go near him. The guy is never healthy and when he rarely is he doesnt do anything. And thats even with playing on a team like Raiders who have just as bad if not worse receiving core than us.
    You had me going there for a second. LOL

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    Yeah, it is obvious that Jets like Harrison because he wasvthe likely cut over Dixon. Surprised Cimini didnt put 2 & 2 together there.
    Cimini isn't the smartest dude. He could be saving that observation for another long winded article of his.

    Personally I'm happy as a Jet fan that the DT Damon was retained. Considering the depth at DL I'd say cutting the elder vets for upcoming talent is better sooner than a year too late. I'm with Tanny on this one FWIW

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