Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 98

Thread: maybe a logical explanation for cutting 4 draft picks

  1. #61
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMo View Post
    Troll harder... please, your posts add so much to this board. I am not sure what we'd do without you...
    None of you guys are adding anything either.

  2. #62
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Thornwood, NY
    Posts
    5,643
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Fair point but are you really saying from a team standpoint we have done as well top to bottom as PITT and GB or the GIANTS?
    No. Your three examples are all solid drafters.

    Packers, in particular, have a surprisingly good record with late round picks. You can see it here (look at games played as a rough measure):

    http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../gnb/draft.htm

    Giants have succeeded with a particular strategy of BADL (best available defensive lineman) that goes against the grain but works for them and they do find players deep more often than average.

    Steelers - my recollection is they are maybe a bit above average lately, but they could suck for 10 years and still be historically one of the best drafters based on their picks in the 70s

  3. #63
    All League
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Blue Ridge Mtns. of Virginia
    Posts
    2,849
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    I've scanned the board, I mentioned it once, and a few others chimed in.

    The real point I believe many are making is that our FO appears to not be in FULL sync. NOT terrible, not awful, just could be better, like PITT, GB, Giants etc... 50 percent of the league is undrafted per Steve Smith so these picks do matter. The fail rate is high agreed. YET..even MORE a reason why choosing Conner, Vlad, Wilson etc.... need be carefully reviewed since we all know the fail rate.

    I believe we will win 10 games. The Tebow selection is open for debate where we dropped our pick a few levels. BUT....it is not correct to say these picks don't matter if in fact HALF the league is undrafted.
    according to my research, the average NFL roster had 18 UDFAs in 2011. That's around 30 percent. Much higher than the 20 I estimated, so my bad. But still no where near 50.

  4. #64
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Vinegar Hill, Brooklyn ...
    Posts
    2,231
    I am sure that if the Front Office had a choice they would much rather be holding on to those late rounders instead of cutting them.

    That said, I prefer they cut marginal draft picks and move on rather than have them taking up a roster spot or a practice squad spot for another year.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by nycdan View Post
    Packers are so elite top-to-bottom they brought in Cedric Benson last week and he's now their starter.

    Steelers are so deep that they have only 4 WRs on their 53-man roster and the best one is disgruntled with no long-term contract.

    No team is elite top-to-bottom. Every team has strengths and weaknesses. And if it's even remotely true, not cutting half your draft picks isn't necessarily a sign of good drafting. It could just be a sign of preferring to pay a lower salary to bench depth than if you pick up veterans. But lets just keep talking in absolutes and all-caps because it's fun.
    And there you have it..

    Again, people here (and the media) are highlighting "the Jets cut 4 draft picks" but they fail to mention where those picks were...It's not like the Jets cut a 2nd or 3rd, a 4th rounder etc...These were picks 202. 203, 242, 244 out of 253 players picked..

    The one player I questionned after watching him was Griffin..He didn't seem worthy of a draft pick and knowing the Jets need for OTs.

    So I did a quick scan of OTs picked in the 6th & 7th rounds.

    6th
    Compton - Skins - Cut
    McCants - Giants - Cut
    Griffin OG/OT - Jets - Cut (listed as an OG when drafted)

    7th
    Anderson - Colts - PUP
    Potter - Cards - 53 man
    Saints - Jones - 53 man
    Packers - Datko - cut
    Beachum (listed as OG on Steelers site) - 53 man

    So to me considering the Hunter situation (which I'm sure the new OL coach and Sparano were consulted on and if they thought he could be fixed/fit into their new system) and Griffin, I at the moment, would question the new OL and Sparano in judging OL talent since they would be consulted prior to the draft (at least I would hope they would be) on draftable OL.

    But let's see how the OL develops as the season goes on (JSmith, AHoward, etc...) Ducasse seems to have found a home at OG and played well this PS
    Last edited by C Mart; 09-02-2012 at 09:38 AM.

  6. #66

    basic math

    Every year an NFL team gets 7 picks. Whats the average length of an NFL career? According to the NFL "rookies who began their careers on NFL 53-man rosters will have an average career of 6.86 years." So 7 picks times 7 years = 49 or not quite enough to fill out an NFL roster. The idea that 5th, 6th, and 7th round picks don't really matter, or are usually cut anyway just doesn't add up.

  7. #67
    Not all draft picks make the team. Move along now.

  8. #68
    I actually encouraged by those cuts. It shows that FO does not want to cover up mistakes and have the balls to admit it -cut a player and move on. Belicheat does it all the time, and IMHO it is a small part of his success (albeit way smaller then cheating). You keep the best players, the ones who can help your team and do not screw up you chemistry, regarding of draft status.

  9. #69
    I don't get all this wailing and gnashing of teeth over the bottom of our draft:

    6 Josh Bush
    6 Terrance Ganaway
    6 Robert Griffin
    7 Antonio Allen
    7 Jordan White


    Here are the results:

    Bush made the 53
    White made the PS
    Allen will be on the PS unless he's taken by another team
    Ganaway, as the 4th RB, lost out on the numbers game and was signed by St. Louis

    That's 4 of 5 guys in the bottom of our draft who are NFL caliber players. It makes no difference to me if a guy is on the PS or the full roster for us - he's still a Jet. And the ones who are signed by other teams shows that the talent is being recognized by other organizations.

    Only one guy - Griffin - is a true cut in my eyes since he's no longer with our club (or any other). That's the only miss by the scouting staff of our 8 total picks. All the rest are legit NFL players. That's good scouting !

    Also everybody seems to be forgetting that the top of our draft was great - Coples, Hill and Davis are picks who will either start or contribute substantially. So we have 2 starters, 2 rotation guys and 2 developmental players out of 8 chosen. Nothing to complain about here.

  10. #70
    One more point about the OG Griffin who was cut: the Jets added an UDFA OT Paul Cornick to the practice squad. The scouting department found Cornick and, after a full camp, the coaching staff determined he was a better prospect than Griffen. So the Jets don't really even lose out here. The best rookie OL is still on the team.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by lageman4ever View Post
    One more point about the OG Griffin who was cut: the Jets added an UDFA OT Paul Cornick to the practice squad. The scouting department found Cornick and, after a full camp, the coaching staff determined he was a better prospect than Griffen. So the Jets don't really even lose out here. The best rookie OL is still on the team.
    They also have OT Dennis Landolt still on the 53, another UDFA from last year, who has been hurt this pre-season, they obviously feel strongly about him to still have on the team, I have to think the only reason he's on the 53 is because they want to put him on the 6 week IR, unless he's healthy, and they want to keep 9 OL'n, could be a Sparano influenced move. I also think Landolt was getting some work at OG as well.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    They also have OT Dennis Landolt still on the 53, another UDFA from last year, who has been hurt this pre-season, they obviously feel strongly about him to still have on the team, I have to think the only reason he's on the 53 is because they want to put him on the 6 week IR, unless he's healthy, and they want to keep 9 OL'n, could be a Sparano influenced move. I also think Landolt was getting some work at OG as well.
    I agree. The medical staff must not think Landolt is done for the year. So him coming back mid-season would be a nice option when other OL are likely dinged up a bit. That's why he's still on the roster. I really have no criticisms of this move.

  13. #73
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    18,564
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffneycatch View Post
    I don't know where you got this idea, but it's totally false. Any NFL fan paying attention should know that number is way off. There are a lot of UDFA's, yes...and they're great stories so we always hear about them when they "make it", so that extra attention may make it seem like the percentage is even a bit higher. But it's no where near half the league. Come on! I'm going to look it up, but I'd be surprised if it's over 20% (which, by the way, is a very high number given these guys were passed over 250 times or so during the draft).
    I heard it on an ESPN interview....... tried to check it but its difficult to check.

  14. #74
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    18,564
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffneycatch View Post
    according to my research, the average NFL roster had 18 UDFAs in 2011. That's around 30 percent. Much higher than the 20 I estimated, so my bad. But still no where near 50.
    It still fully supports the fact that 6th round and 7th round matter.

    again..the cite was from a radio intervuew.

  15. #75
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Thornwood, NY
    Posts
    5,643
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    It still fully supports the fact that 6th round and 7th round matter.

    again..the cite was from a radio intervuew.
    Not directly it doesn't. The metrics that would be telling would be to know:

    1) avg. # of 6th/7th rounders on each NFL team
    2) avg. career length in seasons and games played of 6th/7th rounders as compared to higher picks and UDFAs (non-kickers would be more meaningful)

    I suspect UDFAs are far more numerous and just as likely to succeed as 7th and maybe even 6th rounders. Just a guess on my part for now.

  16. #76
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    18,564
    Quote Originally Posted by nycdan View Post
    Not directly it doesn't. The metrics that would be telling would be to know:


    I suspect UDFAs are far more numerous and just as likely to succeed as 7th and maybe even 6th rounders. Just a guess on my part for now.
    I agree with this.

  17. #77
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    3,099
    Its not the fact thqt they cut a late round draft pick. its tht they gave up on 4/5s of the back of their draft a mere 4months after being so high on these players that they drafted them.

    Parcell's said it takes 3years to know if a pick is a bust. Of course I am not for keeping a scrub around for 3years, but what the hell does our FO REALLY know about these kids after a couple of months. They are adjusting to life on their own, learning a new playbook, etc.

    Rationalize any way you want. This is unacceptable. At least from a franchise that has made questionable decisions the norm.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by pcola View Post
    Its not the fact thqt they cut a late round draft pick. its tht they gave up on 4/5s of the back of their draft a mere 4months after being so high on these players that they drafted them.

    Parcell's said it takes 3years to know if a pick is a bust. Of course I am not for keeping a scrub around for 3years, but what the hell does our FO REALLY know about these kids after a couple of months. They are adjusting to life on their own, learning a new playbook, etc.

    Rationalize any way you want. This is unacceptable. At least from a franchise that has made questionable decisions the norm.

    If a guy is on a practice squad, he's been released by some team ( or never signed in the first place ). So every team cuts developmental guys from their drafts and stashes them on the PS. It is commonplace.

  19. #79
    All League
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    The Iron Throne
    Posts
    2,744
    I compared the Jets to the Patriots and Steelers (good AFC teams that are in competition with the Jets). Given that Coples appears to be a beast, the Jets did not have an epic failure in the draft, but they clearly wasted all of their late picks.
    - Other teams used their late picks to fill backup spots and to provide cheap depth.
    - The Jets draft clearly reflects a swing for the fences approach.

    Steelers 2012 Draft: 9 Selections
    1 24 (24) DeCastro, David G
    2 24 (56) Adams, Mike OT
    3 23 (86) Spence, Sean LB
    4 14 (109) Ta'amu, Alameda DT
    5 24 (159) Rainey, Chris RB
    7 24 (231) Clemons, Toney WR
    7 33 (240) Paulson, David TE
    7 39 (246) Frederick, Terrence CB
    7 41 (248) Beachum, Kelvin T

    Results: DeCastro and Spence suffered injuries and are on IR. Spence is out for the season. DeCastro is expected to recover and contribute this year.
    Adams is the third string LT because Beachum beat him out for the backup spot.
    Rainey is expected to contribute at RB.
    - Counting Spence, 7 of 9 made the team. Clemons is on the Practice Squad.
    Bottom Line: Depth picks to rebuild OL. Injuries killed them.

    Jets 2012 Draft: 8 Picks

    1 16 (16) Coples, Quinton DE
    2 11 (43) Hill, Stephen WR
    3 14 (77) Davis, Demario OLB
    6 17 (187) Bush, Josh S
    6 32 (202) Ganaway, Terrance RB
    6 33 (203) Griffin, Robert T. G
    7 35 (242) Allen, Antonio SS
    7 37 (244) White, Jordan WR

    Coples is going to be a beast - in a good way.
    Hill - definitely has potential to be great, but will be a project for 2012 as he learns the NFL version of the position.
    Davis - should be a starter someday.
    Bush - Cut
    Ganaway - Cut - taken by Rams
    Griffin - Cut
    Allen - Cut
    White - Cut - Practice Squad
    Bottom Line: Beast pick at 1, project at 2, backup LB at 3 - nothing else.


    Patriots 2012 Draft: 7 picks
    1st Round (Pick 21) Chandler Jones (DE, Syracuse)
    1st Round (Pick 25) Dont’a Hightower (LB, Alabama)
    2nd Round (Pick 48) Tavon Wilson (S, Illinois)
    3rd Round (Pick 90) Jake Bequette (DE, Arkansas)
    6th Round (Pick 197) Nate Ebner (DB, Ohio State)
    7th Round (Pick 224) Alfonzo Dennard (CB, Nebraska)
    7th Round (Pick 235) Jeremy Ebert (WR, Northwestern)

    Jones - Starting DE
    Hightower - Starting OLB
    Wilson - Backup FS
    Bequette - Backup DE
    Ebner - Backup SS
    Dennard - Backup CB
    Ebert - Cut
    Bottom Line: Two Starters and 4 backups

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    I compared the Jets to the Patriots and Steelers (good AFC teams that are in competition with the Jets). Given that Coples appears to be a beast, the Jets did not have an epic failure in the draft, but they clearly wasted all of their late picks.
    - Other teams used their late picks to fill backup spots and to provide cheap depth.
    - The Jets draft clearly reflects a swing for the fences approach.

    Steelers 2012 Draft: 9 Selections
    1 24 (24) DeCastro, David G
    2 24 (56) Adams, Mike OT
    3 23 (86) Spence, Sean LB
    4 14 (109) Ta'amu, Alameda DT
    5 24 (159) Rainey, Chris RB
    7 24 (231) Clemons, Toney WR
    7 33 (240) Paulson, David TE
    7 39 (246) Frederick, Terrence CB
    7 41 (248) Beachum, Kelvin T

    Results: DeCastro and Spence suffered injuries and are on IR. Spence is out for the season. DeCastro is expected to recover and contribute this year.
    Adams is the third string LT because Beachum beat him out for the backup spot.
    Rainey is expected to contribute at RB.
    - Counting Spence, 7 of 9 made the team. Clemons is on the Practice Squad.
    Bottom Line: Depth picks to rebuild OL. Injuries killed them.

    Jets 2012 Draft: 8 Picks

    1 16 (16) Coples, Quinton DE
    2 11 (43) Hill, Stephen WR
    3 14 (77) Davis, Demario OLB
    6 17 (187) Bush, Josh S
    6 32 (202) Ganaway, Terrance RB
    6 33 (203) Griffin, Robert T. G
    7 35 (242) Allen, Antonio SS
    7 37 (244) White, Jordan WR

    Coples is going to be a beast - in a good way.
    Hill - definitely has potential to be great, but will be a project for 2012 as he learns the NFL version of the position.
    Davis - should be a starter someday.
    Bush - Cut
    Ganaway - Cut - taken by Rams
    Griffin - Cut
    Allen - Cut
    White - Cut - Practice Squad
    Bottom Line: Beast pick at 1, project at 2, backup LB at 3 - nothing else.


    Patriots 2012 Draft: 7 picks
    1st Round (Pick 21) Chandler Jones (DE, Syracuse)
    1st Round (Pick 25) Dont’a Hightower (LB, Alabama)
    2nd Round (Pick 48) Tavon Wilson (S, Illinois)
    3rd Round (Pick 90) Jake Bequette (DE, Arkansas)
    6th Round (Pick 197) Nate Ebner (DB, Ohio State)
    7th Round (Pick 224) Alfonzo Dennard (CB, Nebraska)
    7th Round (Pick 235) Jeremy Ebert (WR, Northwestern)

    Jones - Starting DE
    Hightower - Starting OLB
    Wilson - Backup FS
    Bequette - Backup DE
    Ebner - Backup SS
    Dennard - Backup CB
    Ebert - Cut
    Bottom Line: Two Starters and 4 backups
    Bush wasn't cut...He's backup to Bell

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us