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Thread: Offensive Skill positions

  1. #1

    Offensive Skill positions

    Our offensive skill position depth chart is the single reason why nobody should expect squat from this team.

    If we had a Pro Bowl QB that could elevate the other positions, then this would be less of a concern. But we don't.

    Somebody should let the GM know.

    QB: Tebow can't throw for crap. I'm not even going to elaborate further outside of saying that he's not a viable NFL QB. I can't say anything for Sanchez outside of just feeling bad for how his career has worked out. If he's viewed as a bust, it's on this regime. Not on Sanchez. He started one year in college and should have been seasoned for a year in 2009 with a roster that was essentially Super Bowl caliber. If the Jets had signed a decent veteran, the load would have been lessened on Thomas Jones, who would have been fresher in the post season. That team with a healthy TJ would have gone to the Super Bowl.

    2010: Sanchez looks decent, great playoff game against the Pats. Would've been great numbers for a rookie year. Tomlinson burnt out by playoffs, no support, get smoked by Steelers in AFC Championship. Should've been warning sign that plan for 2011 is a bad one.

    2011: Team counts on him to throw too much, team misses playoffs. No right tackle help whatsoever. Burress is a bust and downgrade over Braylon in a big way..........Sanchez proves he's tough as hell, that's really about it.

    2012: Bodes badly. Vanilla offensive coach outside of Wildcat, still questionable right tackle play. Two playmakers on offense (Keller and Holmes) who are likely to be doubled every play and will face vicious pass rush aimed at "Ground and Pound" with no top level RB.........I would feel bad for him if he didn't earn more in a year than I will make my entire lifetime.

    The scheme is bad (name the last run-first team to win a Super Bowl) and a run-first team generally needs a great running back.........

    RB: Shonn Greene is average. He's not a great RB. McKnight is a 3rd or 4th RB for most teams. And Bilal Powell hasn't impressed since he was drafted. The best RB on the squad is a QB (Tebow).

    Without elaborating further, what kind of GM allows a team to be built around this running back group? The best "run-based" team in the league last year (San Francisco) has an All-Pro at RB, backed up by a young stud (Hunter) and a quasi-reliable Vet (Jacobs)........who most wouldn't rank much worse than the Jets starter............

    WR: This is an absolute joke. Holmes has the physical tools to be a great wideout, but is not the type of guy to smoke double teams. Kerley was relatively impressive last year...........IN THE SLOT. Both of these guys are small.

    Stephen Hill is a project. He's raw. He needs to run better routes. He needs to work on his hands. Great physical tools, but needs developed. Chaz Schillens being counted on to be more than on a practice squad or to eat an IR slot is a joke.

    Dustin Keller is somebody who has never really realized his potential. He can look like a playmaker then disappear for long stretches...........

    This is one of the worst skill position collections in the entire NFL. I'm just a fan and this is blatantly obvious to me.

    Rex can extol "keeping it close" all he wants. This team will have massive trouble cracking 20 any week.

  2. #2
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    I understand your general point-- but the offense is still going to be a big improvement over last year. Fundamentally, we have more team speed on offense, and that will open up more lanes for both the passing and running game. Kerley now has a year of experience, Powell may be coming into his own, and we may have some serviceable RT play. "Ordinary" OC Sparano is still a monster improvement over the thoroughly incompetent Schottenheimer.

    I do wish we used our 4th round pick + $ on another traditional offensive weapon instead of the Tebow circus.

  3. #3
    Apologies for shedding some factual light on yet another doomsday thread:

    2008 Miami Dolphins Offensive Skill Positions

    Chad Pennington - According to this board, he couldnt throw

    RB: Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams - neither had 1000 yards, combined they rushed for 1500

    TE: Fasano 34 catches, (comparitively speaking that is 30 less then keller had last year.)

    WRs: Ted Ginn, Greg Cammarillo, Davone Bess, David Martin Not a single WR had over 56 catches or 800 yards.

    Their defense had an all world performance from Joey Porter with 17 sacks, but other then that, were led in tackles by channing crowder (out of football) and Yermiah Bell (Jets starting SS).

    That team won 11 games.....

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Apologies for shedding some factual light on yet another doomsday thread:

    2008 Miami Dolphins Offensive Skill Positions

    Chad Pennington - According to this board, he couldnt throw

    RB: Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams - neither had 1000 yards, combined they rushed for 1500

    TE: Fasano 34 catches, (comparitively speaking that is 30 less then keller had last year.)

    WRs: Ted Ginn, Greg Cammarillo, Davone Bess, David Martin Not a single WR had over 56 catches or 800 yards.

    Their defense had an all world performance from Joey Porter with 17 sacks, but other then that, were led in tackles by channing crowder (out of football) and Yermiah Bell (Jets starting SS).

    That team won 11 games.....
    Count me unimpressed.

    1) Team wasn't really that good. I'm a big point differential guy. It's a better indicator of the quality of a team than wins and losses. Really good teams don't squeak out close wins while never blowing someone out, and don't get blown out themselves. The 2008 Dolphins were +28 for the year, which would give them 8.8 pythagorean wins. They were a 9-7 team that caught a few lucky breaks.

    2) NO TOM BRADY FOR THE PATS

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    Our offensive skill position depth chart is the single reason why nobody should expect squat from this team.

    If we had a Pro Bowl QB that could elevate the other positions, then this would be less of a concern. But we don't.

    Somebody should let the GM know.

    QB: Tebow can't throw for crap. I'm not even going to elaborate further outside of saying that he's not a viable NFL QB. I can't say anything for Sanchez outside of just feeling bad for how his career has worked out. If he's viewed as a bust, it's on this regime. Not on Sanchez. He started one year in college and should have been seasoned for a year in 2009 with a roster that was essentially Super Bowl caliber. If the Jets had signed a decent veteran, the load would have been lessened on Thomas Jones, who would have been fresher in the post season. That team with a healthy TJ would have gone to the Super Bowl.

    2010: Sanchez looks decent, great playoff game against the Pats. Would've been great numbers for a rookie year. Tomlinson burnt out by playoffs, no support, get smoked by Steelers in AFC Championship. Should've been warning sign that plan for 2011 is a bad one.

    2011: Team counts on him to throw too much, team misses playoffs. No right tackle help whatsoever. Burress is a bust and downgrade over Braylon in a big way..........Sanchez proves he's tough as hell, that's really about it.

    2012: Bodes badly. Vanilla offensive coach outside of Wildcat, still questionable right tackle play. Two playmakers on offense (Keller and Holmes) who are likely to be doubled every play and will face vicious pass rush aimed at "Ground and Pound" with no top level RB.........I would feel bad for him if he didn't earn more in a year than I will make my entire lifetime.

    The scheme is bad (name the last run-first team to win a Super Bowl) and a run-first team generally needs a great running back.........

    RB: Shonn Greene is average. He's not a great RB. McKnight is a 3rd or 4th RB for most teams. And Bilal Powell hasn't impressed since he was drafted. The best RB on the squad is a QB (Tebow).

    Without elaborating further, what kind of GM allows a team to be built around this running back group? The best "run-based" team in the league last year (San Francisco) has an All-Pro at RB, backed up by a young stud (Hunter) and a quasi-reliable Vet (Jacobs)........who most wouldn't rank much worse than the Jets starter............

    WR: This is an absolute joke. Holmes has the physical tools to be a great wideout, but is not the type of guy to smoke double teams. Kerley was relatively impressive last year...........IN THE SLOT. Both of these guys are small.

    Stephen Hill is a project. He's raw. He needs to run better routes. He needs to work on his hands. Great physical tools, but needs developed. Chaz Schillens being counted on to be more than on a practice squad or to eat an IR slot is a joke.

    Dustin Keller is somebody who has never really realized his potential. He can look like a playmaker then disappear for long stretches...........

    This is one of the worst skill position collections in the entire NFL. I'm just a fan and this is blatantly obvious to me.

    Rex can extol "keeping it close" all he wants. This team will have massive trouble cracking 20 any week.
    So who do you recommend the jets get that's going to be that big of a difference maker on offense. It is not easy procuring that type of talent. Even the most prolific offenses aren't stacked in every offensive position. Quarterback play is essential for having a very good/great offense. Hopefully, if Sanchez can elevate his game, the jets will be successful. If he doesn't take it to that level, they can have some success with him being a game manager.

    By the way, although I think Frank Gore is a better back than Greene, statistically, Gore wasn't much more effective running the ball than Greene (Gore averaged 4.3 ypc, Greene 4.2 ypc)

  6. #6
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    McKnight is a 3rd or 4th RB for most teams.

    And he's a 3rd string RB on the Jets.

  7. #7
    The problem here is fixable. Our team lacks a difference maker at RB. It is plain and simple. I don't have as much of an issue with the WR talent. Its ok. Keller is good, Holmes is good, Kerley is servicable, Hill has upside. It is fine as a compliment to a team with a top flight RB.

    We should probably be looking at grabbing Hightower after week 1 if he is healthy. I wanted to trade for Pierre Garcon but that doesn't seem likely at this point.

  8. #8
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    It's all about the line play. Having playmakers enables you to go from good to elite (like Green Bay and New Orleans), but the QB has to be upright, and confident, in order to lead a good offense.

    An example I like to look at is Philip Rivers
    -When Rivers was getting o-line production from a healthy McNeil and others, with ELITE playmakers like LT (in his prime), Gates (in his prime), and Vincent Jackson, Rivers came across like an MVP QB
    -When Rivers had protection, but with a rookie RB, banged up Gates, and random WRs, he came across as a pretty good QB. Fundamentally, he still had decent protection, and that showed.
    -As of last year, and so far this preseason, Rivers has had some pretty awful protection, and lackluster receiving weapons...as a direct result, he's looked like an awful QB. I'd make a 2011 Sanchez parallel to what we're seeing from Rivers as of this very second. (If SD improves their line, this changes).

    Even the great Brady looks pathetic when he's being rattled by a blitz. The Packers blew that game against KC when both of their starting OT were out of the game. It starts with protection. I love the Hill acquisition, I think he'll open up a lot of things for this offense. But if Howard/Smith provide an upgrade at RT... good things are in store for this Jets offense.

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