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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    Again, those same folks you say don't pay actually pay state, local and sales tax.

    And quite simply, when the middle class shrinks, there are more poor people that do not make enough money to pay income tax.

    That's not a sign to further cut taxes, "tax the poor and lower middle class more" and gut domestic spending.
    Nice try. We are talking about Federal income tax here.

    Celebutards are only celebrities because the morons at the bottom end of the spectrum buy their tripe.

    The nice thing about America is that those that are wealthy today may not be tomorrow and those that are poor may not be tomorrow. That is opportunity and redistribution give no one the motivation to try and move up. As a matter of fact it keeps the lazy sitting on their asses waiting for their checks and under control.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    Nice try. We are talking about Federal income tax here.

    Celebutards are only celebrities because the morons at the bottom end of the spectrum buy their tripe.

    The nice thing about America is that those that are wealthy today may not be tomorrow and those that are poor may not be tomorrow. That is opportunity and redistribution give no one the motivation to try and move up. As a matter of fact it keeps the lazy sitting on their asses waiting for their checks and under control.
    But they do pay taxes... is it there fault there are not enough jobs in this country that pay enough for that 50% to pay income tax?

    I agree that it's a problem, but the solution is a greater degree of redistribution, not less redistribution. Lowering taxes on people who make over a million by $250,000 will not help any of the people we're talking about earn more money. And repealing with financial regulation won't help the bottom 50% in any way.

    We need more money to invest in that bottom 50% so eventually the income tax rolls won't show a ridiculous inequality in wealth distribution.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    But they do pay taxes... is it there fault there are not enough jobs in this country that pay enough for that 50% to pay income tax?

    I agree that it's a problem, but the solution is a greater degree of redistribution, not less redistribution. Lowering taxes on people who make over a million by $250,000 will not help any of the people we're talking about earn more money. And repealing with financial regulation won't help the bottom 50% in any way.

    We need more money to invest in that bottom 50% so eventually the income tax rolls won't show a ridiculous inequality in wealth distribution.
    But welfare isn't an investment it is a handout. There are jobs but few want to work or get educated enough for the job when they can make a little less by doing nothing and taking other people's money.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    But they do pay taxes... is it there fault there are not enough jobs in this country that pay enough for that 50% to pay income tax?

    I agree that it's a problem, but the solution is a greater degree of redistribution, not less redistribution. Lowering taxes on people who make over a million by $250,000 will not help any of the people we're talking about earn more money. And repealing with financial regulation won't help the bottom 50% in any way.

    We need more money to invest in that bottom 50% so eventually the income tax rolls won't show a ridiculous inequality in wealth distribution.


    BTW, you are aware there are a number of states with ZERO income tax. You knew that right?
    It's all about Federal taxes, which are onerous. Except for the 48% or so who pay 0%.
    If you are poor, it's your own fault. It means you were lazy and didn't try in school and/or are lazy now that you should be working. ANYBODY can be successful even if they start with nothing. There are several solid examples of that here on JI. There are also several solid examples here of lazy "takers".

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    But they do pay taxes... is it there fault there are not enough jobs in this country that pay enough for that 50% to pay income tax?

    I agree that it's a problem, but the solution is a greater degree of redistribution, not less redistribution. Lowering taxes on people who make over a million by $250,000 will not help any of the people we're talking about earn more money. And repealing with financial regulation won't help the bottom 50% in any way.

    We need more money to invest in that bottom 50% so eventually the income tax rolls won't show a ridiculous inequality in wealth distribution.
    You trust the government to redistribute? very foolish. Departments with fancy names will be created, jobs with 25 year retirements will be doled out and many will be filled with retired civil servants now not only living on a fat retirement check but also taking a job that could be meant for another. Ever hear of double dipping? The poor have always been here and the only way out is work. Public housing and welfare work? Jobs training? PLEASE, those in government training people to work? Wait..lets subsidize education. Strayer University can do it right? PLEASE. Uneducated people getting bachelors degrees online with 70K of debt. THAT BLITZ is government.

    The ONLY ones better off for more taxation are those in government.

    If we balance the budget, most would be be happy to pay a LOT more but when a glorified newsboy makes 75K a year to walk across my lawn and retires at 53 to watch me work what do you expect me to think?
    Last edited by southparkcpa; 09-11-2012 at 12:45 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    But they do pay taxes... is it there fault there are not enough jobs in this country that pay enough for that 50% to pay income tax?

    I agree that it's a problem, but the solution is a greater degree of redistribution, not less redistribution. Lowering taxes on people who make over a million by $250,000 will not help any of the people we're talking about earn more money. And repealing with financial regulation won't help the bottom 50% in any way.

    We need more money to invest in that bottom 50% so eventually the income tax rolls won't show a ridiculous inequality in wealth distribution.
    You're either naive, dumb or blinded by your misguided ideology, or quite possibly a combination of all three.
    Do you realize A great many of these people have no or never had any thought of ever looking for a job or moving up the social ladder. some of these people's family's have been sucking the system dry for 4-5 generation. WAKE UP!!!! BTW, What happened to the nearly 1 trillion dollars the Barack and Nancy stole in the "stimulus??? or the trillions in the community "re-investment" that gave the unqualified sub-prime loans (some to 125% LTV). The "poor" HAD houses, What happened??? I thought these programs were going to "elevated to poor"

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by acepepe View Post
    You're either naive, dumb or blinded by your misguided ideology, or quite possibly a combination of all three.
    Do you realize A great many of these people have no or never had any thought of ever looking for a job or moving up the social ladder. some of these people's family's have been sucking the system dry for 4-5 generation. WAKE UP!!!! BTW, What happened to the nearly 1 trillion dollars the Barack and Nancy stole in the "stimulus??? or the trillions in the community "re-investment" that gave the unqualified sub-prime loans (some to 125% LTV). The "poor" HAD houses, What happened??? I thought these programs were going to "elevated to poor"
    A great many?

    So...someone who makes 60k a year and has 2 kids and a house is part of this welfare scum you hate?

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    A great many?

    So...someone who makes 60k a year and has 2 kids and a house is part of this welfare scum you hate?
    And you got this from what I wrote how?


    Nothing to see here. this DWARFS the fraud in Medicare/medicaid/ SSI

    Amid growing Republican complaints about fraud and waste in the burgeoning federal food stamp program, the Obama administration on Thursday took steps to go after merchants and beneficiaries who traffic in food stamp debit cards an illegal practice that costs taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars a year.
    Read more at http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2012/05/24/Crackdown-on-Food-Stamp-Fraud-A-$750m-a-Year-Scam.aspx#01MLtdcMUfjxJKEp.99
    Nothing like the gubment running the giv-a-ways!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by acepepe View Post
    And you got this from what I wrote how?


    Nothing to see here. this DWARFS the fraud in Medicare/medicaid/ SSI

    Amid growing Republican complaints about fraud and waste in the burgeoning federal food stamp program, the Obama administration on Thursday took steps to go after merchants and beneficiaries who traffic in food stamp debit cards – an illegal practice that costs taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars a year.
    Read more at http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2012/05/24/Crackdown-on-Food-Stamp-Fraud-A-$750m-a-Year-Scam.aspx#01MLtdcMUfjxJKEp.99
    Nothing like the gubment running the giv-a-ways!
    Wanna guess who make millions a year off of the foodstamp program?



















    Go ahead.


    Guess.







    edit: I meant to say "billions" not "millions"....

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Wanna guess who make millions a year off of the foodstamp program?


















    Go ahead.


    Guess.







    edit: I meant to say "billions" not "millions"....


    I don't effing care. Too much fraud, scrap and start over with food deliveries. BTW the issue was the naivete of SB thinking that the gubment taking from one and giving it to others will somehow elevate the taker. 10 trillion dollars later and NO success other than more poor, trashed cities, higher crime rates, broken families and horrible schools.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Wanna guess who make billions a year off of the foodstamp program?
    Redistribution of wealth ... to Walmart, grocery supply and distribution corporations, farmers.

    Free cell phones for the poor?

    Redistribution of wealth ... to cell phone supply, distribution, and service corporations.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    But welfare isn't an investment it is a handout. There are jobs but few want to work or get educated enough for the job when they can make a little less by doing nothing and taking other people's money.
    I've said numerous times, raising taxes on the wealthy will not be strictly for welfare or food stamps, not even close to the majority of that money collected will be spent there. We need infrastructure built, more affordable higher education and long term investment in research for alternative energy. Infrastructure will provide jobs, higher education affordability will improve social mobility (and provide a better workforce for 'job creators' to hire) and long term investment in an alternative fuel/energy source might just yield more affordable energy for everyone - rich, middle class and poor.

    You couple that with serious cuts in defense spending and cuts in subsidies nearly across the board (from energy to agriculture) and you'll find the middle class in a far better position without "giving out more welfare for nothing."


    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    BTW, you are aware there are a number of states with ZERO income tax. You knew that right?
    It's all about Federal taxes, which are onerous. Except for the 48% or so who pay 0%.
    If you are poor, it's your own fault. It means you were lazy and didn't try in school and/or are lazy now that you should be working. ANYBODY can be successful even if they start with nothing. There are several solid examples of that here on JI. There are also several solid examples here of lazy "takers".
    Even states without income tax or low income tax rates have other forms of taxation that they depend on. This idea that that the bottom half is contributing nothing is ridiculous and certainly not because "they're all lazy".

    Hard work will always be the greatest contributing factor in success, but opportunity is a close second. To blame income inequality on laziness of the "have nots" is willfully ignorant.


    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    You trust the government to redistribute? very foolish. Departments with fancy names will be created, jobs with 25 year retirements will be doled out and many will be filled with retired civil servants now not only living on a fat retirement check but also taking a job that could be meant for another. Ever hear of double dipping? The poor have always been here and the only way out is work. Public housing and welfare work? Jobs training? PLEASE, those in government training people to work? Wait..lets subsidize education. Strayer University can do it right? PLEASE. Uneducated people getting bachelors degrees online with 70K of debt. THAT BLITZ is government.

    The ONLY ones better off for more taxation are those in government.

    If we balance the budget, most would be be happy to pay a LOT more but when a glorified newsboy makes 75K a year to walk across my lawn and retires at 53 to watch me work what do you expect me to think?
    Listen, we've always seen eye to eye on certain pension issues. I know that from when we posted a while back about Nassau and Suffolk cops that can retire after 20 years with a balloon payment, healthcare for life in their mid 40's.

    But that isn't every government job with a pension, nor is it a reason to never invest money in our own people again. And I don't think the government is nearly as inept as it's made out to be. We've done it in our history before - had times of a greater degree of redistribution. The past century America created the richest middle class the world had ever seen and because of that, the greatest consumer economy the world has ever seen.

    And yes, there will always be poor. There is no escaping that. But that doesn't mean you just turn a blind eye to the growing amount of poor, the shrinking middle class and the ever greater concentration of wealth because "there will always be poor".

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    Redistribution of wealth ... to Walmart, grocery supply and distribution corporations, farmers.

    Free cell phones for the poor?

    Redistribution of wealth ... to cell phone supply, distribution, and service corporations.
    Free cell phones for the poor is a terrible program.

    Food stamps though? Yea, Walmart, farmers and distributers will benefit. But hungry people will also eat. It's not the same as the ridiculous idea that we should give everyone a cell phone. You want a cell phone? Get a job. But food? We are a rich and fat enough society to give money for food away to Americans who absolutely need it, even if it ends up in the pockets of the people providing that food - the point is the food makes into it the stomachs of those who need it.
    Last edited by SafetyBlitz; 09-11-2012 at 09:23 PM.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by acepepe View Post
    You're either naive, dumb or blinded by your misguided ideology, or quite possibly a combination of all three.
    Do you realize A great many of these people have no or never had any thought of ever looking for a job or moving up the social ladder. some of these people's family's have been sucking the system dry for 4-5 generation. WAKE UP!!!! BTW, What happened to the nearly 1 trillion dollars the Barack and Nancy stole in the "stimulus??? or the trillions in the community "re-investment" that gave the unqualified sub-prime loans (some to 125% LTV). The "poor" HAD houses, What happened??? I thought these programs were going to "elevated to poor"
    A great many of the bottom 50%?

    How does one come up with a reasonably scientific method to calculate laziness. Is everyone ever who collected a welfare check lazy? And how many, give me a percentage, of Americans do you feel are too lazy and thus underserving of public investment?

    Obviously you don't have a f*cking clue because it's impossible to ascertain, and absurdly presumptuous to be of the position that everyone who's struggling is lazy.

    Here is the stimulus:



    Some of it was short term to protect the vulnerable, a big chunk of it was bailout of state governments, a big chunk of it was tax cuts for the middle class and the rest is infrastructure/research, education and energy - not exactly investments that yield an immediate return, they're long term by nature. Not everything is a monthly jobs report.
    Last edited by SafetyBlitz; 09-11-2012 at 09:25 PM.

  15. #35
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    A great many of the bottom 50%?

    How does one come up with a reasonably scientific method to calculate laziness. Is everyone ever who collected a welfare check lazy? And how many, give me a percentage, of Americans do you feel are too lazy and thus underserving of public investment?

    Obviously you don't have a f*cking clue because it's impossible to ascertain, and absurdly presumptuous to be of the position that everyone who's struggling is lazy.

    Here is the stimulus:



    Some of it was short term to protect the vulnerable, a big chunk of it was bailout of state governments, a big chunk of it was tax cuts for the middle class and the rest is infrastructure/research, education and energy - not exactly investments that yield an immediate return, they're long term by nature. Not everything is a monthly jobs report.
    You friggin kidding me, right? Produced a handful of jobs at a cost of 500k per. Nancy Pelosi's bro in law did get 737mil and produced ZERO permanent jobs. Here enjoy your 737 million http://www.solarreserve.com
    Btw, as I've stated before, I've worked in Sec. 8 and fema houses and the BUMS living in them have NEVER and WILL never look for a job until they're forced to by cutting of their benefits.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by acepepe View Post
    You friggin kidding me, right? Produced a handful of jobs at a cost of 500k per. Nancy Pelosi's bro in law did get 737mil and produced ZERO permanent jobs. Here enjoy your 737 million http://www.solarreserve.com
    Btw, as I've stated before, I've worked in Sec. 8 and fema houses and the BUMS living in them have NEVER and WILL never look for a job until they're forced to by cutting of their benefits.
    Did you read the chart of how that money was spent?

    Lets look at it from each spending bubble on that chart:

    The largest chunk of the stimulus is middle class tax cuts. Now a comrade like me will say that tax cuts are NOT the best way to create jobs, but what do I know, I'm Marko Ramius. But if we're going to call the rich "job creators", then what are the middle class? And how does middle class tax cuts create jobs? Perhaps Obama and the Politburo decided that the middle class got hit the hardest in this recession, and ol' Uncle Sam doesn't need to take as much out of their checks.

    The second largest part is state and local fiscal relief. Hmm... I wonder, is this job creating or job saving? Is this a "holy sh*t, the state of New York will have to fire X number of fireman, cops and teachers if they don't get some help because we're f***ing bankrupt"? Or is this "hey, heres some money, go out and hire new civil servants, we've got the current pensions all covered..."?

    The third largest part, at $111 billion, is infrastructure and science stimulus spending. This is really the first chunk that actually was intended to provide jobs on the short term... although that's really only the infrastructure part, the spending in science is not a classic immediate "job creator" more like a long term investment. But OK, I'll give ya that we haven't created tons of new infrastructure jobs - we would've heard about it from Obama and the campaign by now if that had happened.

    Fourth largest, $81 billion, is 'protecting the vulnerable'. Welfare and food stamps for the tons of people who just lost their job. Neither is a job creator.

    I can continue onto the next pieces of that chart, but the point is, there's a reason this administration wanted a stimulus AND a jobs bill. The way the banks were bailed out was the way the stimulus bailed out the American economy. It was about propping up a struggling economy and a device for lessening the effect of the worst financial crises since the Great Depression on the middle and lower classes.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post


    Damn, and I thought I was doing well. Not even a 1%er. Frankly even if it was 1983.
    Perhaps I should become a Dem so I can give money away.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    Did you read the chart of how that money was spent?

    Lets look at it from each spending bubble on that chart:

    The largest chunk of the stimulus is middle class tax cuts. Now a comrade like me will say that tax cuts are NOT the best way to create jobs, but what do I know, I'm Marko Ramius. But if we're going to call the rich "job creators", then what are the middle class? And how does middle class tax cuts create jobs? Perhaps Obama and the Politburo decided that the middle class got hit the hardest in this recession, and ol' Uncle Sam doesn't need to take as much out of their checks.

    The second largest part is state and local fiscal relief. Hmm... I wonder, is this job creating or job saving? Is this a "holy sh*t, the state of New York will have to fire X number of fireman, cops and teachers if they don't get some help because we're f***ing bankrupt"? Or is this "hey, heres some money, go out and hire new civil servants, we've got the current pensions all covered..."?

    The third largest part, at $111 billion, is infrastructure and science stimulus spending. This is really the first chunk that actually was intended to provide jobs on the short term... although that's really only the infrastructure part, the spending in science is not a classic immediate "job creator" more like a long term investment. But OK, I'll give ya that we haven't created tons of new infrastructure jobs - we would've heard about it from Obama and the campaign by now if that had happened.

    Fourth largest, $81 billion, is 'protecting the vulnerable'. Welfare and food stamps for the tons of people who just lost their job. Neither is a job creator.

    I can continue onto the next pieces of that chart, but the point is, there's a reason this administration wanted a stimulus AND a jobs bill. The way the banks were bailed out was the way the stimulus bailed out the American economy. It was about propping up a struggling economy and a device for lessening the effect of the worst financial crises since the Great Depression on the middle and lower classes.
    !.
    How do you BORROW money to give "tax cuts"? WTF??? So you steal money from individuals and other states to give to states that can't balance their budgets???
    How much went over seas?? Did YOU like paying for the teaching of sub-Saharan Africa to wash their nuts after sex??? Bet you did!!! Why don't you look at where the money went, line by line instead of some "chart" supplied by Nancy Pelosi's office. I can assure you no one on this site is going to back you on what your writing in this thread, not even the resident lefy's you're making a fool of yourself.
    Last edited by acepepe; 09-12-2012 at 09:41 AM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by acepepe View Post
    !.
    How do you BORROW money to give "tax cuts"? WTF??? So you steal money from individuals and other states to give to states that can't balance their budgets???
    How much went over seas?? Did YOU like paying for the teaching of sub-Saharan Africa to wash their nuts after sex??? Bet you did!!! Why don't you look at where the money went, line by line instead of some "chart" supplied by Nancy Pelosi's office. I can assure you no one on this site is going to back you on what your writing in this thread, not even the resident lefy's you're making a fool of yourself.
    Yea, it was all foreign aid to help africans wash their balls.

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