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Thread: Chicago Teachers Union Strikes

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Demosthenes9 View Post
    Am sure this will cause some strife and some tempers to flare, but the countries on the top of the rankings all have largely homogenous societies.
    Yeah I love it when politicians from Vermont(96% non-minority), like Barry Sanders talk about how great his state is doing with education and then points the finger at Texas. Easy solution, take the illegals that you love and their kids to your state and then watch your social network and schools go down. Please save you're a racist b.s. any of you leftist, It's tired and old, just prove the fact wrong.

  2. #42
    76 grand a year + benefits. Pay 3% of the their healthcare and a damned good retirement package and who are paying it the tax payers. All about the children what a bunch of bullcrap!

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Luv ya but that is the biggest pile of horse$hit I have ever heard.

    Really...amazing how people can justify mediocrity.

    Like extending unemployment under the "its good for the economy" argument.
    Sorry, but you are wrong. I 've seen it first hand. Super intelligent teacher cannot relate to the struggling student.

    Educational philosophies like No Child Left behind no longer want the teacher to give information but have the students research the information on their own. "Teacher is to act as a facilitator" are words that are written throughout No Child Left Behind. If I give the students the information, I can recieve an unsatisfactory rating.
    Last edited by copernicus; 09-12-2012 at 11:05 AM.

  4. #44
    So just to be clear Copern, you support the teachers on the idea that they should not be evaluated bt results, and you support the teachers that that making $76K (on average) + Benefits + Time Off (double the average for Chacago workers) + 16% increase over 4 years is not enough.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    Sorry, but you are wrong. I 've seen it first hand. Super intelligent teacher cannot relate to the struggling student.

    Educational philosophies like No Child Left behind no longer want the teacher to give information but have the students research the information on their own. "Teacher is to act as a facilitator" are words that are written throughout No Child Left Behind. If I give the students the information, I can recieve an unsatisfactory rating.
    We both know I wont change your mind..thats fine. I in fact support teachers here in Charlotte 10 fold. They are extremely underpaid in Charlotte and teachers here quit ALL the time. Crazy. 40K for a teacher is NOT enough and the benefits here are not great but they are good. VERY similar to private industry.

    However ..teachers should NOT make more than the general pupulation and should have benefits similar to private industry. A teacher making 60K to 80K is about right. Want more? Teach summer school, drivers ed, coach a team...

    PLEASE, I BEG YOU dont bring up the we have masters degree BS.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    So just to be clear Copern, you support the teachers on the idea that they should not be evaluated bt results, and you support the teachers that that making $76K (on average) + Benefits + Time Off (double the average for Chacago workers) + 16% increase over 4 years is not enough.
    I think the teachers should be evaluated by their bosses and not a standardized test that has an agenda to make everyone in the system look like a failure so big business can come in and privatized.

    If you were being asked to do twice the amount of work and learn new ideas that you have to pay for on your own would you ask for a raise?

    Five years and counting without a new contract but the workload went from manageable to not even close with the explosion of testing in our schools.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    I think the teachers should be evaluated by their bosses
    Your union overlords would not be happy if they found out you wrote this. Expect a severed horse head in your bed if word gets out.

  8. #48
    http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012...mentary-school

    PS 121 parents say they were never told about PCBs in school
    CORINNE LESTCH
    Thursday, May 31, 2012

    Frustrated parents gathered outside Public School 121 on Wednesday to blast the city Department of Education’s slow reaction to toxic chemicals leaking from lightbulbs.

    After a letter was sent home from several schools last year notifying that it will take the DOE up to 10 years to remediate rampant PCBs (polychlorinated biphenyls), nonprofit NYC Communities for Change is helping parents fight back.

    They protested about two weeks ago at a Queens elementary school where PCBs, which are linked to cancer and other health problems, were found in light fixtures.

    But parents at P.S. 121 - known as the Throop School - said they never received a letter that their school joined nearly 800 others on an official list.

    “The DOE didn’t even give us letters,” said angry grandmother Milagros Duchesne. “I never knew this was one of the schools that had this.”

    Several parents at the rally insisted they never received a letter, which is mandated by city law.

    “The law requires the DOE to notify parents of children attending schools with PCB lights, and let parents know when the lights are being removed,” charged Christina Giorgio, a staff attorney with New York Lawyers for the Public Interest. “With regard to some schools, they didn’t even get the letter. And that’s the situation at 121.”

    Department spokeswoman Marge Feinberg said a letter was sent home with students in April, and will be distributed again this week to notify parents.

    “We will replace all fixtures that are likely to have PCBs as part of our comprehensive plan, which is unprecedented compared to other cities,” she said.

    Meanwhile, several parents say their children’s asthma is getting worse, and that many have been complaining of headaches.

    “She’s always coughing,” Duchesne said of her 5-year-old granddaughter, Yaidelyn Atuiar, who has asthma. “I live in the (Eastchester Garden) projects, where a lot of the kids live. A lot of them have no immune system. It’s just sad.”

    clestch@nydailynews.com

  9. #49
    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...#ixzz26H0a2dJQ

    PCB-laced lighting fixture leaked onto a grade-schooler last week at Staten Island’s Public School 41, Department of Education officials acknowledged Tuesday.
    After the Thursday incident — when a suspect substance dripped onto the kid’s desk and clothing — the teacher evacuated the entire class from the room, officials said.
    City officials discovered the cancer-causing PCBs, but said the student was not contaminated.
    PCBs were widely used in lighting fixtures before 1977, when the chemical was banned in construction materials.
    But the city and has agreed to a 10-year timeline for removing all of the toxic timebombs at more than 700 schools. At 310 schools with visible leaks, the city has agreed to move more swiftly.
    The latest step in that process will begin Wednesday with the replacement of all of PS 41’s lights, the city said.
    Critics said the city has irresponsibly delayed the replacements.
    “(Thursday’s leak) makes abundantly clear that the DOE must change ... remediate these light fixtures citywide immediately,” said Christina Giorgio of New York Lawyers for the Public Interest, which has sued the city to force more swift action.
    rmonahan@nydailynews.com

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    Your union overlords would not be happy if they found out you wrote this. Expect a severed horse head in your bed if word gets out.
    And here it is. Just like the politicians want you to believe. You think that teachers are never evaluated, do you? As an untenured teacher the principal and vice principal officially observe the teacher in the classroom setting ten times a year. As a tenured teacher, the principal observes the teacher anywhere from four to six times a year. These evaluations are written up as an official document and signed off by the superintendent and are placed in the teachers official file along with suggestions of how to improve. This is a requirement that ALL teachers and principals must go by. In everyone of my 16 years of teaching I have been observed officially multiple times. You should write about what you know and stop believing everything on FOX NEWS.......

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    And here it is. Just like the politicians want you to believe. You think that teachers are never evaluated, do you? As an untenured teacher the principal and vice principal officially observe the teacher in the classroom setting ten times a year. As a tenured teacher, the principal observes the teacher anywhere from four to six times a year. These evaluations are written up as an official document and signed off by the superintendent and are placed in the teachers official file along with suggestions of how to improve. This is a requirement that ALL teachers and principals must go by. In everyone of my 16 years of teaching I have been observed officially multiple times. You should write about what you know and stop believing everything on FOX NEWS.......
    And then the bad (and in some instances,criminal) ones are fired, right?

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    What if all of these new mandates that come down from politicians were truly hurting children?
    Then there are ways to deal with that short of preventing students from attending school and then picketing them as they go to replacement programs to enable their parents to go to work.
    I find it unreal how so many think all politicians are crooked and corrupt EXCEPT when it comes to how they make madates that affect some of the most vulnerable in our society, children.
    I find it unreal that you could defend a teacher's strike as being in the best interest of school children.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by acepepe View Post
    And then the bad (and in some instances,criminal) ones are fired, right?
    The principal has THREE YEARS of evaluations to rid themselves of poor teachers and do not have to grant tenure at the end of their probationary period. Most poor teachers quit, or the principal fires them WAY BEFORE THAT. Its why most teachers are granted tenure. The principal has seen THREE YEARS worth of observations. It doesnt take that long for a principal to decide if the teacher is worthy so often the "bad" teacher if fired well before they are up for tenure.

    But I get it, most of you get your info from FOX NEWS and politicians who would rather fire ALL teachers, good or bad, because it saves money that they can steal.

    Here is the kicker, there are very few truly bad teachers in the system. It DEFINITELY does not warrant all of YOUR money being spent trying to prove it. Instead, its created an atmosphere where the whole system is stressed out because principals are trying to prove teachers are incompetent when there is very little evidence.

    This is whats happening.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    Are we all suddenly experts in the Chicago education system, the Chicago public fiscal situation and cost of living there?

    Not all strikes are the same, sometimes both sides have a point, sometimes one side clearly has a better argument.

    You don't have to pick a side the first time you hear about something.
    I've got no view whatsoever about the points being made at the negotiating table.

    Without knowing a damn thing about it, calling a strike the day school starts is disgusting.

    If you were going to strike, walk out in June. Let the city plan to keep school doors open however they can - because while that's bad for your leverage, it's what's best for the children, and their interests have to come first.

    This? This is saying "F the children; we'll do whatever it takes to get ours"

    That's not an attitude I can condone.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by acepepe View Post
    And then the bad (and in some instances,criminal) ones are fired, right?

    Absolutely. Thr principal is not being graded based on the performance of their teachers, right?
    I have seen reported from many areas - from Atlanta, to NYC, to Chi, to right here in Charleston - fraud in the classroom. fantastic improvements in scores. Yep, the teachers were feeding answers. In some cases, as in here, PRINCIPALS were changing incorrect answers on tests. So as to look better AND make more money. HMMM.
    The offenders were here were either fired or "got out of town" before prosecution.
    Complaints? The NAACP. Why? Mostly black schools and mostlt black teachers. Parents were upset that the "wonderful teachers" could no longer teach their children. That is CHEAT for their children.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Demosthenes9 View Post
    Am sure this will cause some strife and some tempers to flare, but the countries on the top of the rankings all have largely homogenous societies.
    That's true in connection with medical care, as well. The reality is, having a cohesive, homogenous society makes provision of services much easier. It also means being a teacher in the US is a much more difficult job than being a teacher in Finland.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post


    I find it unreal that you could defend a teacher's strike as being in the best interest of school children.
    40 students in poor areas are being crammed into classrooms where there is no air conditioning in 90 plus degree heat is somehow not in the best interest for children?

    Yeah, terrible

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    35 students in a classroom built for 20 in the 1950s

    No air conditioning with temperatures in the 90s making the temperature inside the classroom well over 100.

    Cant suspend students until multiple documented infractions have happened over a long period of time.

    That same student will destroy even the greatest teacher's lesson EVERY DAY and affect EVERY student's ability to learn around him.

    Pepper in that more than half the class cannot speak English fluently.

    Yeah, pretty fair to judge a teacher's performance with conditions like that.
    You're right. Clearly, a teacher's performance can't be measured; there are no such things as successful and unsuccessful teachers. Therefore, teachers should be paid minimum wage, since any shlub off the street could achieve the same results.

    BTW, I don't agree with that. But if you are suggesting that a teacher's performance can't be evaluated under current conditions, that's the necessary conclusion to draw - no point in paying teachers anything beyond replacement wages, and certainly no reason to give them tenure or experience pay.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    The principal has THREE YEARS of evaluations to rid themselves of poor teachers and do not have to grant tenure at the end of their probationary period. Most poor teachers quit, or the principal fires them WAY BEFORE THAT. Its why most teachers are granted tenure. The principal has seen THREE YEARS worth of observations. It doesnt take that long for a principal to decide if the teacher is worthy so often the "bad" teacher if fired well before they are up for tenure.
    And there's no such thing as a tenured teacher who, after achieving tenure, declines in performance? Ridiculous.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    You're right. Clearly, a teacher's performance can't be measured; there are no such things as successful and unsuccessful teachers. Therefore, teachers should be paid minimum wage, since any shlub off the street could achieve the same results.

    BTW, I don't agree with that. But if you are suggesting that a teacher's performance can't be evaluated under current conditions, that's the necessary conclusion to draw - no point in paying teachers anything beyond replacement wages, and certainly no reason to give them tenure or experience pay.
    Maybe I have not made myself clear. I think teachers should be evaluated by the experts. By principals, vice principals and veteran teachers. Not a government made test that has a much different agenda. I am all for the way I have been evaluated for the last 16 years, by my superiors inside the school that I teach at.

    As an untenured teacher the principal and vice principal officially observe the teacher in the classroom setting ten times a year. As a tenured teacher, the principal observes the teacher anywhere from four to six times a year. These evaluations are written up as an official document and signed off by the superintendent and are placed in the teachers official file along with suggestions of how to improve. This is a requirement that ALL teachers and principals must go by. In everyone of my 16 years of teaching I have been observed officially multiple times.

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