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Thread: REPLACEMENT REFS ARE RUINING THE GAME

  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by jetrider View Post
    Agreed. And it just so happens that the second guy to grab it came down with it first!



    Nope. When Tate got both hands on it there was no more juggling till after the play was dead.

    Maybe we don't see eye to eye because you didn't watch the video 50 times frame-by-frame like I did.

    The multi-angle video that was up earlier this morning is now replaced with other junk. But now Eric Davis is saying the same thing I been saying ...

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...headline_stack


    Tate readjusts his grip twice.

    99% of former players and officials agree it wasn't a catch. I'm not going to debate it anymore. Feel free to get last word. SMC and I have gone to painstaking lengths to make it clear that control was Jennings' first. You just keep coming back with "Tate had two feet down first" which has nothing to do with the rule as I read it and as it's been explained by former officials all over the place. I still think Tate's "possession" in general is weak at best regardless of this conversation. He's basically hugging Jennings' forearm with one hand. He feels the need to adjust his grip. Jennings doesn't.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    Fck all the bullsh!t. Watch the play. It's an interception. I don't need screen shots and highlighted circles to tell me what I saw live over and over.

    CB catches the ball, brings the ball against his chest, goes to the ground and never relinquishes control. It's an interception. Move along. Not changing it now.
    What are you yapping about?

    We need sports science to solve this!

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton View Post


    Tate readjusts his grip twice.

    99% of former players and officials agree it wasn't a catch. I'm not going to debate it anymore. Feel free to get last word. SMC and I have gone to painstaking lengths to make it clear that control was Jennings' first. You just keep coming back with "Tate had two feet down first" which has nothing to do with the rule as I read it and as it's been explained by former officials all over the place. I still think Tate's "possession" in general is weak at best regardless of this conversation. He's basically hugging Jennings' forearm with one hand. He feels the need to adjust his grip. Jennings doesn't.
    LOL. That gif is garbage. Maybe that's your problem.

    Watch the actual video.

    The rule as you posted it doesn't differentiate a simultaneous catch made on the ground from a ball plucked in mid air and brought to the ground.

    It takes for granted that their feet are down.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by jetrider View Post
    LOL. That gif is garbage. Maybe that's your problem.

    Watch the actual video.

    The rule as you posted it doesn't differentiate a simultaneous catch made on the ground from a ball plucked in mid air and brought to the ground.

    It takes for granted that their feet are down.
    It was an interception. Just move along.

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetrider View Post
    LOL. That gif is garbage. Maybe that's your problem.

    Watch the actual video.

    The rule as you posted it doesn't differentiate a simultaneous catch made on the ground from a ball plucked in mid air and brought to the ground.

    It takes for granted that their feet are down.
    Gerry Austin disagrees with you.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by jetrider View Post
    LOL. That gif is garbage. Maybe that's your problem.

    Watch the actual video.

    The rule as you posted it doesn't differentiate a simultaneous catch made on the ground from a ball plucked in mid air and brought to the ground.

    It takes for granted that their feet are down.
    LOL! Says you over the vast majority of NFL personnel? I'll take their word for it. That's exactly the point. It doesn't differentiate because it doesn't matter! Whoever plucks the ball first regardless of feet. The feet only matter in that the one who controls the ball first eventually gets his feet down in bounds and completes the catch. I have never heard of "who's feet were down first" being a part of the rule because it's not. I have watched the video. The .gif being "garbage" still shows him readjusting his grip just like I saw live and on the video replays. I'm off to get drinks. This killed some time. Have fun fellers.

  7. #227
    Every NFL player that plays right now in the league knows that it was an interception. This includes QBs and WRs, the best in the league. I'm not sure why anyone is trying to argue this unless they are just fans of Devil's Advocate which appears to be the case here. Move along.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton View Post
    LOL! Says you over the vast majority of NFL personnel? I'll take their word for it. That's exactly the point. It doesn't differentiate because it doesn't matter! Whoever plucks the ball first regardless of feet. The feet only matter in that the one who controls the ball first eventually gets his feet down in bounds and completes the catch. I have never heard of "who's feet were down first" being a part of the rule because it's not. I have watched the video. The .gif being "garbage" still shows him readjusting his grip just like I saw live and on the video replays. I'm off to get drinks. This killed some time. Have fun fellers.
    Wait, you mean you haven't been drinking all along?

    Watch the Eric Davis nfl.com video I linked.

    You obviously didn't.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...headline_stack

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by jetrider View Post
    Wait, you mean you haven't been drinking all along?

    Watch the Eric Davis nfl.com video I linked.

    You obviously didn't.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...headline_stack
    A.) Blow me. B.) I did. That's great that you picked one NFL player who agrees with you! Yay! They usually know the rules better than former refs right? I could link you 10 to 1 who disagree with you. So who to believe? The vast majority of NFL players and personnel or jetrider throwing accusations of me drinking while I'm giving you clear explanations of my point. I think I'll go with the the NFL people.

    Edit: And I love that I'm the drunk one when you disagree with everyone in the world.
    Last edited by Carlton; 09-25-2012 at 04:31 PM.

  10. #230
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    JetRider, here's a question.

    First, this is the rule again:

    Rule 8 - Section 3 - Article 1 - Item 5: Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.

    Hypothetical Scenario

    Jennings, in the endzone, jumps into the air and the ball is in his two hands. He lands on other teammates who hold him in the air like he is in a mosh pit so his feet doesn't touch the ground.

    Two seconds later, Tate, with 2 feet on the ground, reaches up and grabs the ball in Jennings' hands. Both have a hold of the ball equally. Jennings' teammates then let him down so his 2 feet touch.

    Pursuant to the above quoted rule, is it a TD or INT?

  11. #231
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    Every player that ever played and every coach that ever coached and every fan that ever watched saw Tammi Brady fumble away the Patriot season in the snow vs the Raiders in the most obvious fumble in NFL history..

    Didnt stop non-replacement incompetant buffoon part timer Walt Coleman from royally screwing the call up and handing his patriot darlings a playoff win

    Ill take these new part timers any day



    Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

  12. #232
    Also.. from the official NFL Casebook:

    There are five “approved rulings” related to hypotheticals dealing with simultaneous possession that inform our interpretation of the rule. (A.R. 8.24 to A.R. 8.29). The relevant ones:

    A.R. 8.25: First-and-10 on A20. A2 and B3 simultaneously control a pass in the air at the A40. As they land, both players land on their feet and wrestle for the ball on their feet. Eventually, B3 takes the ball away from A2 and is tackled at the A38.

    Ruling: B’s ball, first-and-10 on A38. Until one of the players in simultaneous possession of the ball goes to the ground or out of bounds, the ball remains alive.

    A.R. 8.26: First-and-10 on A20. A2 and B3 simultaneously control a pass in the air at the A40. As they land, one or both players fall down to the ground.

    Ruling: A’s ball, first-and-10 on A40. The ball is dead.

    A.R. 8.29: First-and-10 on A20. B3 controls a pass in the air at the A40 before A2, who then also controls the ball before they land. As they land, A2 and B3 fall down to the ground.

    Ruling: B’s ball, first-and-10 on A40. Not a simultaneous catch as B3 gains control first and retains control.

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton View Post
    A.) Blow me. B.) I did. That's great that you picked one NFL player who agrees with you! Yay! They usually know the rules better than former refs right? I could link you 10 to 1 who disagree with you. So who to believe? The vast majority of NFL players and personnel or jetrider throwing accusations of me drinking while I'm giving you clear explanations of my point. I think I'll go with the the NFL people.
    LOL. All alcoholics get "touchy" when accused of drinking.

    Eric Davis clearly explained it step by step.

    Players believe what serves their needs.

    Retired refs are blind and senile.

    Likewise, I'll take NFL people over you and SMC, and Eric Davis says it best.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by jetrider View Post
    LOL. All alcoholics get "touchy" when accused of drinking.

    Eric Davis clearly explained it step by step.

    Players believe what serves their needs.

    Retired refs are blind and senile.

    Likewise, I'll take NFL people over you and SMC, and Eric Davis says it best.
    Ah I'm an alcoholic now? Ha!

    You hand picked one example. Players commonly don't know the specific rules and even so way more players agree with us. Since you are calling me an alcoholic now it's pretty clear that you are a jerkoff. Read my post above that clearly supports our case. If you can't admit you're wrong after that you are an idiot.


    A.R. 8.29: First-and-10 on A20. B3 controls a pass in the air at the A40 before A2, who then also controls the ball before they land. As they land, A2 and B3 fall down to the ground.



    A.R. 8.29: First-and-10 on A20. B3 controls a pass in the air at the A40 before A2, who then also controls the ball before they land. As they land, A2 and B3 fall down to the ground.



    A.R. 8.29: First-and-10 on A20. B3 controls a pass in the air at the A40 before A2, who then also controls the ball before they land. As they land, A2 and B3 fall down to the ground.



    A.R. 8.29: First-and-10 on A20. B3 controls a pass in the air at the A40 before A2, who then also controls the ball before they land. As they land, A2 and B3 fall down to the ground.



    A.R. 8.29: First-and-10 on A20. B3 controls a pass in the air at the A40 before A2, who then also controls the ball before they land. As they land, A2 and B3 fall down to the ground.



    A.R. 8.29: First-and-10 on A20. B3 controls a pass in the air at the A40 before A2, who then also controls the ball before they land. As they land, A2 and B3 fall down to the ground.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton View Post
    A.R. 8.29: First-and-10 on A20. B3 controls a pass in the air at the A40 before A2, who then also controls the ball before they land. As they land, A2 and B3 fall down to the ground.

    Ruling: B’s ball, first-and-10 on A40. Not a simultaneous catch as B3 gains control first and retains control.
    /thread

    As Carlton and SMC have been saying, Jennings had control (not possession) of the ball first and never lost control while in the process of fully making the catch. According to the rule book, it's an interception, no doubt about it.

    There is no gray area, this is a very black and white situation.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    /thread

    As Carlton and SMC have been saying, Jennings had control (not possession) of the ball first and never lost control while in the process of fully making the catch. According to the rule book, it's an interception, no doubt about it.

    There is no gray area, this is a very black and white situation.
    So glad I finally found the Casebook. Jesus that was like pulling teeth.

  17. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton View Post

    A.R. 8.29: First-and-10 on A20. B3 controls a pass in the air at the A40 before A2, who then also controls the ball before they land. As they land, A2 and B3 fall down to the ground.

    Ruling: B’s ball, first-and-10 on A40. Not a simultaneous catch as B3 gains control first and retains control.
    Sure you didn't fudge the wording? There's nothing about which player, if any, came down first.

    If B3 and A2 come down simultaneously then YES it's B3's ball.

    Jennings and Tate did not come down simultaneously.

  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetrider View Post
    Sure you didn't fudge the wording? There's nothing about which player, if any, came down first.

    If B3 and A2 come down simultaneously then YES it's B3's ball.
    So you're saying that if a player makes a catch while in the air, the ball is free for the taking to anyone who has their feet on the ground, as long as they can keep him in the air until they get the ball? Sounds like fun!


    If you agree that Jennings 1. gained control first and 2. retained control as they fall to the ground, then anything Tate did doesn't matter.
    Last edited by isired; 09-25-2012 at 05:28 PM.

  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetrider View Post
    Sure you didn't fudge the wording? There's nothing about which player, if any, came down first.

    If B3 and A2 come down simultaneously then YES it's B3's ball.

    Jennings and Tate did not come down simultaneously.
    You really can't be serious.

    No where in the scenario or in the rule does it state that feet down is relevant. You're the one saying that. It's clear that control is relevant and that has nothing to do with whether the feet are down.

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton View Post
    Ah I'm an alcoholic now? Ha!

    You hand picked one example. Players commonly don't know the specific rules and even so way more players agree with us. Since you are calling me an alcoholic now it's pretty clear that you are a jerkoff. Read my post above that clearly supports our case. If you can't admit you're wrong after that you are an idiot.
    My apologies.

    Didn't know the word "alcoholic" struck a nerve with you. LOL

    Chill out, Pedro

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