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Thread: DRAFT or Player development

  1. #1
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    DRAFT or Player development

    There has been plenty of debate here on why we "seem" below where we should be as a team in overall production.. My belief is we dont draft as well as elite teams and dont treat 6th round and after seriously enough. That would be Tanny. CMART posted he thought it was more player development. 2012 is still early but Mo Wilk hasnt had a sack since I cant remember when. That is more on coaching.

    That said..consider our drafting.

    Look at our round 1 to 3 picks from 2010 to 2012 (day one and two picks)

    Look at our round 4 to 7 picks

    Do we have any real standout players?

    Is it weak drafting, weak development, both? None?

    I still like Mark and have read a bunch of experts and some good posts here and am convinced he is not the main problem/issue. Lets stay on the coaching and GM here. Whats everyone think?

  2. #2
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    Well.....

    ....how many (and please name them) 6th and 7th round picks (or UDFA's) are currently starting and contributing materially to other teams who are considered "elite" in 2012?

    Then compare that list (per team) to the Jets List of the same, and then we might have someplace to start with such a discussion.

  3. #3
    compared to other teams very weak. many of last years draft class are paying dividends right now to the teams that drafted them.

    look at green bay and the defense they have built through the draft hawk,matthews,raji and others we cant compare

    im sick and tired of hearing oh this guy was rexs pick or tannes pick. when is it a pick everyone agrees on that will help this team immediately and make an impact someway somehow.

    ever wonder why its been so long look no further than whats happened on draft day.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Well.....

    ....how many (and please name them) 6th and 7th round picks (or UDFA's) are currently starting and contributing materially to other teams who are considered "elite" in 2012?

    Then compare that list (per team) to the Jets List of the same, and then we might have someplace to start with such a discussion.
    Outside Revis, Mangold and Ill count in the Brick too..not sure we have any standout or Elite Players.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    There has been plenty of debate here on why we "seem" below where we should be as a team in overall production.. My belief is we dont draft as well as elite teams and dont treat 6th round and after seriously enough. That would be Tanny. CMART posted he thought it was more player development. 2012 is still early but Mo Wilk hasnt had a sack since I cant remember when. That is more on coaching.

    That said..consider our drafting.

    Look at our round 1 to 3 picks from 2010 to 2012 (day one and two picks)

    Look at our round 4 to 7 picks

    Do we have any real standout players?

    Is it weak drafting, weak development, both? None?

    I still like Mark and have read a bunch of experts and some good posts here and am convinced he is not the main problem/issue. Lets stay on the coaching and GM here. Whats everyone think?
    You have to identify the players drafted and round and that they weren't drafted where they were supposed to be i.e. "reaches", "undraftable" per the so called "draft experts".

    Like I said earlier..Sanchez was regarded as a top 10 - mid 1st rounder per "the experts"..So he was drafted where he should have been...

    If they selected Greg McElroy in the 1st round (when he wasn't close to having a 1st round grade per the "draft experts") that's then a GM/Scouting issue

    Mo Wilk had a mid-low 1st round grade per the "draft experts" so he was drafted where his grade reportedly was..

    Is it completely the GM and scouts fault if a guy is drafted where he's supposed to but doesn't turn into a player?
    Last edited by C Mart; 09-25-2012 at 12:41 PM.

  6. #6
    Wilkerson is already one of the best 34 DEs in the league...like top 3 good.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    You have to identify of those players drafted and the round that they weren't drafted where they were supposed to be i.e. "reaches", "undraftable" per the so called "draft experts".

    Like I said earlier..Sanchez was regarded as a top 10 - mid 1st rounder per "the experts"..So he was drafted where he should have been...

    If they selected Greg McElroy in the 1st round (when he wasn't close to having a 1st round grade per the "draft experts") that's then a GM/Scouting issue

    Mo Wilk was had a mid-low 1st round grade per the "draft experts" so he was drafted where his grade reportedly was..

    Is it completely the GM and scouts fault if a guy is drafted where he's supposed to but doesn't turn into a player?
    I learned from a wealthy BOSS a long time ago, NEVER put your career in the hands of someone else. I revoew and take responsibility for all work in my office.

    That said... reading a scouting report and reviewing exert opinion is fine. BUT, end of the day, we have VLAD in the 2nd round. How manyprobowlers were drafted after him? We dont know.


    BUT... I get your point BUT WE THE TEAM have to live with the results. the experts dont unless they are our scouts.


    Friend of mine, banker here in Charlotte, was a QB at Columbia in the 80's. Went as an UDFA to the GIANTS. He tells a great story. Short of it is The TUNA screamed at him.." Who the fukk brought you here? YOU suck etc... Columbia isnt a football school, if you get cut, Im firing the scout who brought you here."


    Cute story ..point being Scouts must be accountable too.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    compared to other teams very weak. many of last years draft class are paying dividends right now to the teams that drafted them.

    look at green bay and the defense they have built through the draft hawk,matthews,raji and others we cant compare

    im sick and tired of hearing oh this guy was rexs pick or tannes pick. when is it a pick everyone agrees on that will help this team immediately and make an impact someway somehow.

    ever wonder why its been so long look no further than whats happened on draft day.
    Green Bay had up to 5 rookies on the field playing D and making plays. We have none. The issue is Tanny. When every pick is a reach or a project, WTF? The pats drafted two rookies on d and both are starting and making plays. Our picks barely make the field. Hill had a wonderful week one and since then has done zero. Couples is on the bench, watching the game. He was supposed to start, and if he can't play better than the d lineman we have, then it's not looking good. Every team except the Jets pick rookies and are able to plug them in right away, this is a problem.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    I learned from a wealthy BOSS a long time ago, NEVER put your career in the hands of someone else. I revoew and take responsibility for all work in my office.

    That said... reading a scouting report and reviewing exert opinion is fine. BUT, end of the day, we have VLAD in the 2nd round. How manyprobowlers were drafted after him? We dont know.


    BUT... I get your point BUT WE THE TEAM have to live with the results. the experts dont unless they are our scouts.


    Friend of mine, banker here in Charlotte, was a QB at Columbia in the 80's. Went as an UDFA to the GIANTS. He tells a great story. Short of it is The TUNA screamed at him.." Who the fukk brought you here? YOU suck etc... Columbia isnt a football school, if you get cut, Im firing the scout who brought you here."


    Cute story ..point being Scouts must be accountable too.
    not disputing that one bit.

    "BUT WE THE TEAM have to live with the results" still doesn't answer if it's a GM/scouting issue or coaching/development issue.

    We don't have access to the Jets scouting reports or the other 31 NFL teams so who knows what round grades are being assigned to these players.

    I'm not going back to the Vlad thing..We debated it and I've supplied info that backed up he went pretty much where the "experts" said he should of at the time of the draft.

    If someone wants to go through each teams draft picks the past 3-4 years by round and then look up where the "experts" had them going, you could get some idea if the round grades assigned by "the experts" are close to NFL teams.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Well.....

    ....how many (and please name them) 6th and 7th round picks (or UDFA's) are currently starting and contributing materially to other teams who are considered "elite" in 2012?

    Then compare that list (per team) to the Jets List of the same, and then we might have someplace to start with such a discussion.
    Looking at last year's SB, 4 players immediately come to mind, 2 from each team:

    Patriots:

    Kyle Love
    Dan Connolly

    Giants:

    Victor Cruz
    Chase Blackburn

    Edit: Brady too, obviously, but I was limiting this to the last few years.
    Last edited by AFCEastFan; 09-25-2012 at 01:11 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by srobjets View Post
    Green Bay had up to 5 rookies on the field playing D and making plays. We have none. The issue is Tanny. When every pick is a reach or a project, WTF? The pats drafted two rookies on d and both are starting and making plays. Our picks barely make the field. Hill had a wonderful week one and since then has done zero. Couples is on the bench, watching the game. He was supposed to start, and if he can't play better than the d lineman we have, then it's not looking good. Every team except the Jets pick rookies and are able to plug them in right away, this is a problem.
    Who has been a "reach" and based on what?

    haha....Wasn't Rex the one that chirped about wanting Coples? Again pre-draft Coples had a high-mid 1st round grade by "the experts"...Hill had a low 1st-2nd round grade too...

    So how is that the GM's / scouts fault if the players are selected where their grade dictates.

  12. #12
    i don't think anyone here has watched anyone from the 2012 draft class or powell or kendrick ellis enough to say they're a bust. it's so frustrating and puzzling, though, that rex would rather play a guy like dixon over coples, and then cut dixon the next day. the other teams in the nfl draft guys and play them. the jets draft guys and sit them.

  13. #13
    [That said... reading a scouting report and reviewing exert opinion is fine. BUT, end of the day, we have VLAD in the 2nd round. How manyprobowlers were drafted after him? We dont know.


    there are a total of six pro bowlers drafeted after vlad so far that it so in 130 plus picks after vlad there are 6 six pro bowlers and also from that draft no o lineman has made the pro bowl not that making a pro bowl is a bench mark as devin mccourty made one and he stinks flat out and coast the pats that game


    sorry missed pouncy from pittsburgh

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    i don't think anyone here has watched anyone from the 2012 draft class or powell or kendrick ellis enough to say they're a bust. it's so frustrating and puzzling, though, that rex would rather play a guy like dixon over coples, and then cut dixon the next day. the other teams in the nfl draft guys and play them. the jets draft guys and sit them.
    coples was sick read last week injury report in that heat i dont think they wanted to kill him

    09/21/2012 Quinton Coples Probable Illness

  15. #15
    it's time to get rid of tanny.it's time to realize that we need a gm with a proven track record.I recommend bill polian.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jets rooter View Post
    it's time to get rid of tanny.it's time to realize that we need a gm with a proven track record.I recommend bill polian.
    Polian was the NFL's worst GM over the last few years. It appears that the game has passed him by. You would not like it one bit if he were running the Jets.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jets rooter View Post
    it's time to get rid of tanny.it's time to realize that we need a gm with a proven track record.I recommend bill polian.
    That's fine. Does that guarantee the players he picks will play better on Sundays?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jets rooter View Post
    it's time to get rid of tanny.it's time to realize that we need a gm with a proven track record.I recommend bill polian.
    I was called an "idiot" by a kool aid drinker but I agree. I think having someone like Mangini involved would help. He was pretty good at talent evaluation.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    That's fine. Does that guarantee the players he picks will play on Sundays?
    this may be the better question.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    I was called an "idiot" by a kool aid drinker but I agree. I think having someone like Mangini involved would help. He was pretty good at talent evaluation.
    Do we know that? Maybe he and his staff were better at developing the players.

    Tanny and the same scouting staff were in place when Mangini was HC.

    And Tanny had final say,if needed, on the picks when Mangini was HC

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