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Thread: DRAFT or Player development

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Agree to disagree, I think they're one of the least talented, most QB-dependant, luckiest teams in the NFL in recent years. I would not hold them up as some example of great and consistent late-draft strategy myself, but to each their own I suppose.

    Take away Eli, and they go from an 8-8 talent team that got streaky, to a 2-3 win team.
    Tuck, Osi, JPP, Phillips, Nicks, Cruz Bradshaw would all start for the Jets. All draft picks.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt39 View Post
    Tuck, Osi, JPP, Phillips, Nicks, Cruz Bradshaw would all start for the Jets. All draft picks.
    Cruz was UDFA.

    Mangold, Brick, Keller, Harris, and Revis would all start for the Giants. All draft picks.

    Moore would start on their O-Line (UDFA)

    You could even argue Wilkerson would start at DT for them.

    Cromartie and Landry would also start for them. (Trade, FA)
    Last edited by Sourceworx; 09-25-2012 at 04:06 PM.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braumeister View Post
    Cruz was UDFA.

    Mangold, Brick, Keller, Harris, and Revis would all start for the Giants. All draft picks.

    Moore would start on their O-Line (UDFA)

    You could even argue Wilkerson would start at DT for them.

    Cromartie and Landry would also start for them. (Trade, FA)
    important pieces are pass rushers and guys that can score the ball...Jets have zero of those guys that compare with the Giants

    Mangold vs Baas...who cares. Its a center

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=joe810;4614770]
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Wilson is a starting CB. You may think he sucks, but he's beat out all comers for the slot CB role thus far, and has Revis (lolnot beatinghimout) and Cromarie (a legit #1 in the NFL) ahead of him.....

    McKnight is a Pro-Bowl KR, and I maintain he should get more carries in the backfield.

    Powell is our future (soon) #1 RB, of that I'm now convinced given Greene's poor play.

    Kerley is a legit starting #2/Slot WR and PR, despite the fans endless hate and doubts over anyone not named "Braylon Mc Burress".

    McElroy is our #2 (really #2) QB.

    Wilkerson is a starter quality player.

    Connor is a good blocking FB...the value of which is of course questionable.

    Ducasse is the bust of 2010/2011. A total bust at this point.

    so explain whats wrong here you have a bunch of young guys that cant get on the field because there a veternas that are better than they are ahead of them this is how you make avery good deep team you build and build ducase will be the starting right tackle next year thats a lock he maybe the starter very soon he is playing well and gives us needed size on the line we may have the smallest o line in the league the dol fags all weigh over 325 except for the 315 lb center thats why we are having problems in short yardage so far this season

    ok so look at 2008 draft and it was a washout execpt for dustin keller and lowery giving us some quality play. that was a very weak draft bad year dor tanny and company

    2009 much better you got the winningest qb in the historyy of the team thats still growing he is not perfect but he was also not the number player chosen overall so with only 3 picks you have your starting qb starting running back for how much longer i dont know bue he is servicable and will have a role here and your starting guard and brandon moores replacment as his hips are gone

    so is tanny doing that bad a job no is he killing no but if wilkerson and coples and hill and ellis not to mention powell and kerley who both seem to be taking off this year become special like revis freguson and mangold we are set i think wilkerson will be like sean ellis for us steady and will flash in big games
    Dicasse won't be starting at T. Maybe G but not tackle.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    There has been plenty of debate here on why we "seem" below where we should be as a team in overall production.. My belief is we dont draft as well as elite teams and dont treat 6th round and after seriously enough. That would be Tanny. CMART posted he thought it was more player development. 2012 is still early but Mo Wilk hasnt had a sack since I cant remember when. That is more on coaching.

    That said..consider our drafting.

    Look at our round 1 to 3 picks from 2010 to 2012 (day one and two picks)

    Look at our round 4 to 7 picks

    Do we have any real standout players?

    Is it weak drafting, weak development, both? None?

    I still like Mark and have read a bunch of experts and some good posts here and am convinced he is not the main problem/issue. Lets stay on the coaching and GM here. Whats everyone think?
    I think it's a little bit of both.

    The main problem IMO is that they don't have the volume of players drafted in the later rounds as other teams do because they trade the picks away. So their odds of finding a diamond in the rough are slim to begin with.

    They have done a poor job developing players as well. Vlad and Kyle Wilson (and others) seem to have improved marginally. How much of that is on the players, how much is it on the coaching staff for not polishing them and how much is it on the GM for taking them in the first place? That's a tough call, but I think ultimately the GM deserves the blame.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    I think it's a little bit of both.

    The main problem IMO is that they don't have the volume of players drafted in the later rounds as other teams do because they trade the picks away. So their odds of finding a diamond in the rough are slim to begin with.

    They have done a poor job developing players as well. Vlad and Kyle Wilson (and others) seem to have improved marginally. How much of that is on the players, how much is it on the coaching staff for not polishing them and how much is it on the GM for taking them in the first place? That's a tough call, but I think ultimately the GM deserves the blame.
    Isn't developing the player more of a coaching responsibility?

    Again pre draft Wilson was regarded as the 2nd CB behind Haden by a lot of people. Some even had him as the 1st CB.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Isn't developing the player more of a coaching responsibility?

    Again pre draft Wilson was regarded as the 2nd CB behind Haden by a lot of people. Some even had him as the 1st CB.
    Yes it is.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt39 View Post
    important pieces are pass rushers and guys that can score the ball...Jets have zero of those guys that compare with the Giants

    Mangold vs Baas...who cares. Its a center
    O-Line doesn't matter?

    Cool story, bro.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Wilson is a starting CB. You may think he sucks, but he's beat out all comers for the slot CB role thus far, and has Revis (lolnot beatinghimout) and Cromarie (a legit #1 in the NFL) ahead of him.....

    McKnight is a Pro-Bowl KR, and I maintain he should get more carries in the backfield.

    Powell is our future (soon) #1 RB, of that I'm now convinced given Greene's poor play.

    Kerley is a legit starting #2/Slot WR and PR, despite the fans endless hate and doubts over anyone not named "Braylon Mc Burress".

    McElroy is our #2 (really #2) QB.

    Wilkerson is a starter quality player.

    Connor is a good blocking FB...the value of which is of course questionable.

    Ducasse is the bust of 2010/2011. A total bust at this point.

    So lets get down to it........What is the solution you see here? Fire Tanny, fire Rex and replace with whom for 2012?
    1) Wilson is a starter b/c the real starter got hurt. Number 1 picks aren't supposed to be backups. Bust
    2) McKnight cannot even hold the #2 RB job. He is a full blown bust.
    3) Powell looks like he might be a decent pick
    4) Kerley is a #3 or #4 receiver on a good team. Decent pick, but nothing special.
    5) McElroy is a bust - he is a limp armed JAG who will never be a starter in the league.
    6) Wilkerson - decent pick
    7) Connor - Bust who would probably be cut if they had managed to land anyone better - double bust.
    8) Ducasse - may turn out to be a decent guard, but a bust for 2.5 years.

    9) Late round picks - bust, bust, bust, bust.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    The Giants, and it is not even close.
    Warfush is funny that way...he wants proof. Ill do some digging after the tax deadline but I would say Giants, pats, Steelers, Ravens draft better than we have past 3 years. Just a hunch

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    I think it's a little bit of both.

    The main problem IMO is that they don't have the volume of players drafted in the later rounds as other teams do because they trade the picks away. So their odds of finding a diamond in the rough are slim to begin with.

    They have done a poor job developing players as well. Vlad and Kyle Wilson (and others) seem to have improved marginally. How much of that is on the players, how much is it on the coaching staff for not polishing them and how much is it on the GM for taking them in the first place? That's a tough call, but I think ultimately the GM deserves the blame.


    I believe that the later picks are so important. If we can make an impact starter of a 5th rounder and after and a real contributing player as an UDFA EVERY year that would be something. Connor IMO is a joke.

    I simply think we are 2 players lighter than we should be based on the draft. Almost 50 percent of this league late round and after so why do the JETS treat them like prizes in cracker jacks and discard them.

    The Tebow deal and Favre deal BOTH show how we handle the draft. neither player helped the team long term but did hurt our draft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    1) Wilson is a starter b/c the real starter got hurt. Number 1 picks aren't supposed to be backups. Bust
    2) McKnight cannot even hold the #2 RB job. He is a full blown bust.
    3) Powell looks like he might be a decent pick
    4) Kerley is a #3 or #4 receiver on a good team. Decent pick, but nothing special.
    5) McElroy is a bust - he is a limp armed JAG who will never be a starter in the league.
    6) Wilkerson - decent pick
    7) Connor - Bust who would probably be cut if they had managed to land anyone better - double bust.
    8) Ducasse - may turn out to be a decent guard, but a bust for 2.5 years.

    9) Late round picks - bust, bust, bust, bust.
    yes sir...

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