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Thread: Before we go slashing wrists or crying for changes

  1. #1

    Before we go slashing wrists or crying for changes

    Last I checked that was one loss.

    Let's crap ourselves over one loss when the Jets are still tied for first and are at .500.

    Even if they get hammered next week, did you expect anything different?

    Did you look at the schedule this year and think they would beat San Francisco, Houston, or New England x 2?

    What would be satisfactory? Being 4-0? Are you high?

    The expectations need tempered by reality. The league's parity is very strong. It's why a team can lay an egg and then come back and make the playoffs.

    And if you haven't seen worse losses, you haven't really been a Jets fan that long.

    You can call out for changes, you can pine over lost opportunities, but it comes down to one thing:

    The Jets are at .500 a quarter of the way through.

    I am not trying to be optimistic. I am right along side you if you think the roster is bad and thought it was coming in. I am right there with you if you think Sanchez is below average and Tebow is in no way, shape, or form the answer to any question. I agree wholeheartedly with you if you think the GM is bad and that you can't win with a coach who is afraid of learning half the game.

    But the season's already started. The changes that need made are drastic, sweeping and will not yield a winning season, if we're lucky, for at least two years and they can only be completed in the off-season. Initiating these changes now would be a disaster as you would be replacing holes with JAGs and possibly Tony Sparano.

    No, this bed is made. And even if you lose by 72 like Savannah State, it's still just one loss. That's the truth.

    So barring a miracle, the Jets will be 2-3 after a nationally televised disaster Monday night, but that was to be expected. Logic dictated this roster do that.

    Hopefully the GM and Owner don't sabotage everything and force something like a QB change after a 2-3 start, no matter how bad the team looks, especially with one of the premier teams to bounce back against in Indianapolis coming in in two weeks and bump this team back to .500.

    At 2-2 the Jets have the same exact record as the past two Super Bowl Champions.

    Stay the course and get as far as you can.

    Only if they end up 2-4 or 2-5 should they make a change and it shouldn't be the change you think:

    They should go to McElroy. To put their fan base through what is nearly a guaranteed less than 50% completion percentage with Tebow would be absolutely brutal and borderline disrespectful of us. At least there's an unknown quantity with McElroy.

    That's the reality. I fully believe this will get worse before it gets better. And looking back doesn't really make it better:

    Rex's 2009 and 2010 were with rosters primarily comprised of people assembled when Eric Mangini was telling Tannenbaum what to do. Rex can only do that on half the ball due to lack of knowledge, and honestly, he's been awful at it. Trash Gholston and Robertson all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Mangini at least wasn't afraid to try to coach both sides of the ball. Something that horrifies Rex.

    In any event, I'm not feeding Kool Aid, I'm not succumbing to hysterics. I'm simply stating that nobody should have thought this roster was good enough to win a Super bowl this year. But the schedule is still soft enough to possibly even make the playoffs, and we should all know by now that at that point it might as well be craps at the Borgata.

    And if that were to occur, I don't know if I'd be happy or cry, because no matter how you break it down, I think major changes need to happen. And this owner needs to look no further than the Timex Center on how to go about doing it.

    As an aside:

    Don't the Niners remind you of the 2010 Jets? Alex Smith is terrible. That young kid Kaepernick has some skillset, doesn't it? He's tall as hell, runs like a gazelle, and obviously has an absolute cannon. These two teams are major proof to the fact that management and coaching egos get in the way of what appear to be massively obvious evidence to even casual fans of where big sweeping changes need made and some bumps need endured for long-term sustenance.

    Where the Niners hold Kaepernick back, the Jets should have had a "don't lose the game" veteran like Smith starting ahead of Sanchez in '09 and '10 until he gained some experience.
    Last edited by PMarsico9; 10-01-2012 at 10:11 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    Last I checked that was one loss.

    Let's crap ourselves over one loss when the Jets are still tied for first and are at .500.

    Even if they get hammered next week, did you expect anything different?

    Did you look at the schedule this year and think they would beat San Francisco, Houston, or New England x 2?

    What would be satisfactory? Being 4-0? Are you high?

    The expectations need tempered by reality. The league's parity is very strong. It's why a team can lay an egg and then come back and make the playoffs.

    And if you haven't seen worse losses, you haven't really been a Jets fan that long.

    You can call out for changes, you can pine over lost opportunities, but it comes down to one thing:

    The Jets are at .500 a quarter of the way through.

    I am not trying to be optimistic. I am right along side you if you think the roster is bad and thought it was coming in. I am right there with you if you think Sanchez is below average and Tebow is in no way, shape, or form the answer to any question. I agree wholeheartedly with you if you think the GM is bad and that you can't win with a coach who is afraid of learning half the game.

    But the season's already started. The changes that need made are drastic, sweeping and will not yield a winning season, if we're lucky, for at least two years and they can only be completed in the off-season. Initiating these changes now would be a disaster as you would be replacing holes with JAGs and possibly Tony Sparano.

    No, this bed is made. And even if you lose by 72 like Savannah State, it's still just one loss. That's the truth.

    So barring a miracle, the Jets will be 2-3 after a nationally televised disaster Monday night, but that was to be expected. Logic dictated this roster do that.

    Hopefully the GM and Owner don't sabotage everything and force something like a QB change after a 2-3 start, no matter how bad the team looks, especially with one of the premier teams to bounce back against in Indianapolis coming in in two weeks and bump this team back to .500.

    At 2-2 the Jets have the same exact record as the past two Super Bowl Champions.

    Stay the course and get as far as you can.

    Only if they end up 2-4 or 2-5 should they make a change and it shouldn't be the change you think:

    They should go to McElroy. To put their fan base through what is nearly a guaranteed less than 50% completion percentage with Tebow would be absolutely brutal and borderline disrespectful of us. At least there's an unknown quantity with McElroy.

    That's the reality. I fully believe this will get worse before it gets better. And looking back doesn't really make it better:

    Rex's 2009 and 2010 were with rosters primarily comprised of people assembled when Eric Mangini was telling Tannenbaum what to do. Rex can only do that on half the ball due to lack of knowledge, and honestly, he's been awful at it. Trash Gholston and Robertson all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Mangini at least wasn't afraid to try to coach both sides of the ball. Something that horrifies Rex.

    In any event, I'm not feeding Kool Aid, I'm not succumbing to hysterics. I'm simply stating that nobody should have thought this roster was good enough to win a Super bowl this year. But the schedule is still soft enough to possibly even make the playoffs, and we should all know by now that at that point it might as well be craps at the Borgata.

    And if that were to occur, I don't know if I'd be happy or cry, because no matter how you break it down, I think major changes need to happen. And this owner needs to look no further than the Timex Center on how to go about doing it.

    As an aside:

    Don't the Niners remind you of the 2010 Jets? Alex Smith is terrible. That young kid Kaepernick has some skillset, doesn't it? He's tall as hell, runs like a gazelle, and obviously has an absolute cannon. These two teams are major proof to the fact that management and coaching egos get in the way of what appear to be massively obvious evidence to even casual fans of where big sweeping changes need made and some bumps need endured for long-term sustenance.

    Where the Niners hold Kaepernick back, the Jets should have had a "don't lose the game" veteran like Smith starting ahead of Sanchez in '09 and '10 until he gained some experience.
    I have to agree with you. The sad reality of the members of this board is that 40% are borderline rooting against the Jets just to prove themselves right, 40% are way too optimistic and then there are 20% who are living in reality. It's like the U.S. Congress in here. Anyway, I agree with everything you wrote above except the 49ers thing. Smith is exactly what Sanchez should be by this point and he's not. The one big difference is that the 49ers have given Smith weapons at every position, our FO has neglected to do that for Sanchez and his one security blanket has been out all year. That being said, Sanchez misses way too many wide open WR's for my taste. His decision making is below average and hasn't gotten better since his rookie year. That's a problem. I would rather go all in on the top QB coming out this year and then sign a stop gap veteran to play till he is ready. Somebody like Garrard or Matt Moore. Moore had a big year in Sparano's offense in 2011and he is a FA next year.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    Last I checked that was one loss.

    Let's crap ourselves over one loss when the Jets are still tied for first and are at .500.

    Even if they get hammered next week, did you expect anything different?

    Did you look at the schedule this year and think they would beat San Francisco, Houston, or New England x 2?

    What would be satisfactory? Being 4-0? Are you high?

    The expectations need tempered by reality. The league's parity is very strong. It's why a team can lay an egg and then come back and make the playoffs.

    And if you haven't seen worse losses, you haven't really been a Jets fan that long.

    You can call out for changes, you can pine over lost opportunities, but it comes down to one thing:

    The Jets are at .500 a quarter of the way through.

    I am not trying to be optimistic. I am right along side you if you think the roster is bad and thought it was coming in. I am right there with you if you think Sanchez is below average and Tebow is in no way, shape, or form the answer to any question. I agree wholeheartedly with you if you think the GM is bad and that you can't win with a coach who is afraid of learning half the game.

    But the season's already started. The changes that need made are drastic, sweeping and will not yield a winning season, if we're lucky, for at least two years and they can only be completed in the off-season. Initiating these changes now would be a disaster as you would be replacing holes with JAGs and possibly Tony Sparano.

    No, this bed is made. And even if you lose by 72 like Savannah State, it's still just one loss. That's the truth.

    So barring a miracle, the Jets will be 2-3 after a nationally televised disaster Monday night, but that was to be expected. Logic dictated this roster do that.

    Hopefully the GM and Owner don't sabotage everything and force something like a QB change after a 2-3 start, no matter how bad the team looks, especially with one of the premier teams to bounce back against in Indianapolis coming in in two weeks and bump this team back to .500.

    At 2-2 the Jets have the same exact record as the past two Super Bowl Champions.

    Stay the course and get as far as you can.

    Only if they end up 2-4 or 2-5 should they make a change and it shouldn't be the change you think:

    They should go to McElroy. To put their fan base through what is nearly a guaranteed less than 50% completion percentage with Tebow would be absolutely brutal and borderline disrespectful of us. At least there's an unknown quantity with McElroy.

    That's the reality. I fully believe this will get worse before it gets better. And looking back doesn't really make it better:

    Rex's 2009 and 2010 were with rosters primarily comprised of people assembled when Eric Mangini was telling Tannenbaum what to do. Rex can only do that on half the ball due to lack of knowledge, and honestly, he's been awful at it. Trash Gholston and Robertson all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Mangini at least wasn't afraid to try to coach both sides of the ball. Something that horrifies Rex.

    In any event, I'm not feeding Kool Aid, I'm not succumbing to hysterics. I'm simply stating that nobody should have thought this roster was good enough to win a Super bowl this year. But the schedule is still soft enough to possibly even make the playoffs, and we should all know by now that at that point it might as well be craps at the Borgata.

    And if that were to occur, I don't know if I'd be happy or cry, because no matter how you break it down, I think major changes need to happen. And this owner needs to look no further than the Timex Center on how to go about doing it.

    As an aside:

    Don't the Niners remind you of the 2010 Jets? Alex Smith is terrible. That young kid Kaepernick has some skillset, doesn't it? He's tall as hell, runs like a gazelle, and obviously has an absolute cannon. These two teams are major proof to the fact that management and coaching egos get in the way of what appear to be massively obvious evidence to even casual fans of where big sweeping changes need made and some bumps need endured for long-term sustenance.

    Where the Niners hold Kaepernick back, the Jets should have had a "don't lose the game" veteran like Smith starting ahead of Sanchez in '09 and '10 until he gained some experience.
    I had to give up after the first 4 sentences because reading this made my head hurt.

  4. #4
    Once again one of the happy happy joy joy apologists totally miss the point by focusing on one game and assuming people are up in arms over one game.

    Our offense looked like garbage in the ex season, our offense has looked like garbage against the last three teams we have played. We beat a lousy Miami team through sheer luck.

    We have no running game.
    Our Qb is pure awful (3 games in a row under 50%?)
    Our vaunted D line stinks, no pass rush and teams are running all over us.
    We have no Wr's.
    Our LB's are looking like they are running in Molasses.

    The team on every level looks very very bad and there is no magic bullet to suddenly make things great. Add a few injures to the mix and we are in real trouble.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Choon328 View Post
    I have to agree with you. The sad reality of the members of this board is that 40% are borderline rooting against the Jets just to prove themselves right, 40% are way too optimistic and then there are 20% who are living in reality. It's like the U.S. Congress in here. Anyway, I agree with everything you wrote above except the 49ers thing. Smith is exactly what Sanchez should be by this point and he's not. The one big difference is that the 49ers have given Smith weapons at every position, our FO has neglected to do that for Sanchez and his one security blanket has been out all year. That being said, Sanchez misses way too many wide open WR's for my taste. His decision making is below average and hasn't gotten better since his rookie year. That's a problem. I would rather go all in on the top QB coming out this year and then sign a stop gap veteran to play till he is ready. Somebody like Garrard or Matt Moore. Moore had a big year in Sparano's offense in 2011and he is a FA next year.


    Yesterday gave the contingent of whiny SOJF on this site an opportunity to pound their chests in pride.

    It's absolutely shamefull there are fans that would rather see the team lose just so they can run amuck on a message board.

    That said, everybody should be pissed about yesterday, I fault nobody for doing so.

    But the season isn't over...

    Re: Smith, let's remember he's been in the league for 8 years, to Sanchez' 3.

    I'm still convinced Sanchez is working with a handicap with the inexerience at WR and injuries at both WR and TE. Keller being out has been a bigger deal than many are considering.

    The game was a close one, should have been at least 7-3 going into half time, but turnovers against a good team like SF cannot happen, and that along with Holmes injury snowballed yesterday's game making the final score a bit skewed.

    SF's deployment of the wildcat really crossed up our defense, it isn't like Gore ran all over us, and despite Wilson's antics, I thought the D played well in spots. The reverses and wildcat killed us, and fortunately, that is something that is correctable.

    I like the Berry addition at CB, McKnight needs to become a bigger part of the offense, and I'd like to see Sapp moved to the active roster and added to the rotation at LB becuase this team is lacking at OLB, it's a HUGE hole right now, Maybin hasn't been good enough, and McIntyre has been an abomination in the last couple of weeks. I would even consider elevating Dowtin, we need speed and athleticism at LB in a bad way.

  6. #6
    I honestly think mcelroy gives us the best chance to win at this point.

    I have no idea what is wrong with sanchez, especially after he looked like a different player vs buffalo. Its not just the receivers or the protection, he is simply wildy inaccurate and still cant get the screen passes going.

    There are guys in this league like romo, matt hassleback, ryan fitzpatrick, matt moore who were late round or undrafted players that have had success.

    I have no idea if mcelroy is the answer, and bypassing tebow would be a monumental move, but something has to be done.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Once again one of the happy happy joy joy apologists totally miss the point by focusing on one game and assuming people are up in arms over one game.

    Our offense looked like garbage in the ex season, our offense has looked like garbage against the last three teams we have played. We beat a lousy Miami team through sheer luck.

    We have no running game.
    Our Qb is pure awful (3 games in a row under 50%?)
    Our vaunted D line stinks, no pass rush and teams are running all over us.
    We have no Wr's.
    Our LB's are looking like they are running in Molasses.

    The team on every level looks very very bad and there is no magic bullet to suddenly make things great. Add a few injures to the mix and we are in real trouble.
    I'm tired of the fans that pounce on anybody who dares to suggest things aren't as bad as some of you doom and gloomers think it is.

    You same clowns ***** and moan when you get criticized for being miserable, then why do it when the other side of the spectrum gives it back?

    Nobody is happy about yesterday, not one ****ing fan, so enough of the crap about kool aid and apologists. Just because some of us aren't ready to write off the world, and want to believe things aren't as bad as it was yesterday, doesn't give you the entitlement to tell us how to post or what to post either. It goes both ways.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post


    Yesterday gave the contingent of whiny SOJF on this site an opportunity to pound their chests in pride.

    It's absolutely shamefull there are fans that would rather see the team lose just so they can run amuck on a message board.

    That said, everybody should be pissed about yesterday, I fault nobody for doing so.

    But the season isn't over...

    Re: Smith, let's remember he's been in the league for 8 years, to Sanchez' 3.

    I'm still convinced Sanchez is working with a handicap with the inexerience at WR and injuries at both WR and TE. Keller being out has been a bigger deal than many are considering.

    The game was a close one, should have been at least 7-3 going into half time, but turnovers against a good team like SF cannot happen, and that along with Holmes injury snowballed yesterday's game making the final score a bit skewed.

    SF's deployment of the wildcat really crossed up our defense, it isn't like Gore ran all over us, and despite Wilson's antics, I thought the D played well in spots. The reverses and wildcat killed us, and fortunately, that is something that is correctable.

    I like the Berry addition at CB, McKnight needs to become a bigger part of the offense, and I'd like to see Sapp moved to the active roster and added to the rotation at LB becuase this team is lacking at OLB, it's a HUGE hole right now, Maybin hasn't been good enough, and McIntyre has been an abomination in the last couple of weeks. I would even consider elevating Dowtin, we need speed and athleticism at LB in a bad way.
    Ummm, I'm pretty sure he said we should just start the 3rd string QB who has been in street clothes every game this season...

    Is this also the official Ray Ray position now?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I honestly think mcelroy gives us the best chance to win at this point.

    I have no idea what is wrong with sanchez, especially after he looked like a different player vs buffalo. Its not just the receivers or the protection, he is simply wildy inaccurate and still cant get the screen passes going.

    There are guys in this league like romo, matt hassleback, ryan fitzpatrick, matt moore who were late round or undrafted players that have had success.

    I have no idea if mcelroy is the answer, and bypassing tebow would be a monumental move, but something has to be done.
    Due to pressure and the beating he took last year, he is impatient and has happy feet in the pocket. He's rushing plays, rushing the evolution of the play and not allowing plays to develop.

    Sanchez needs to re-learn how to trust his protection again, to not play tentative and just let it fly. The same thing happened with Pennington. Ironically, Pennington was able to correct this when he got to Miami, and even more ironically under Sparano before hurting his shoulder again.

    The one thing about Sparano's system, it requires the QB to anticipate more, and Sanchez is still going through the growing pains of this transition, and it has been slow to develop because he's doing it with a depleted WR unit due to inexperience and injury, as well as injury to Keller.

    McElroy is not the answer IMO.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies View Post
    Ummm, I'm pretty sure he said we should just start the 3rd string QB who has been in street clothes every game this season...

    Is this also the official Ray Ray position now?
    What is an official Ray Ray position smartass?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    I'm tired of the fans that pounce on anybody who dares to suggest things aren't as bad as some of you doom and gloomers think it is.

    You same clowns ***** and moan when you get criticized for being miserable, then why do it when the other side of the spectrum gives it back?

    Nobody is happy about yesterday, not one ****ing fan, so enough of the crap about kool aid and apologists. Just because some of us aren't ready to write off the world, and want to believe things aren't as bad as it was yesterday, doesn't give you the entitlement to tell us how to post or what to post either. It goes both ways.
    Ray, this goes beyond the whole "its only one loss" thing. Its about how this team is playing, and its prospects going forward. 245 yards rushing allowed??? Seriously? I am all about how the NFL is a week to week league, and there are no style points awarded, thats why I wasnt as critical about the performance after the Dolphin win. But this team got gashed right up their a$$ yesterday. They suffered another injury to what was already a thin WR group, and it seems that Sanchez has lost any confidence he might have had.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    And if you haven't seen worse losses, you haven't really been a Jets fan that long.
    Umm. Yes that is correct, b/c the last time the Jets lost this bad it was in 1989 and 197-something.

    That means any fan under 22 years old (and was able to remember games as an infant) has not seen a loss this bad.

    My question isnt about what you think of everyone else on the board. My question is, what the hell are you rooting for? Who gets you excited on this team?

    What can you point to as positives from this organization. Which players are playing better under this regime? What players have been developed that we can say, wow, that was a good pick?

    I'm usually on the optimistic end, but truth is, I like to root for a team that has pride, class, and young developing talent. Don't see that here anymore.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    What is an official Ray Ray position smartass?
    Missionary?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies View Post
    Missionary?
    I'm voting reverse cowgirl with mirrored shades and a belly chain.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Ray, this goes beyond the whole "its only one loss" thing. Its about how this team is playing, and its prospects going forward. 245 yards rushing allowed??? Seriously? I am all about how the NFL is a week to week league, and there are no style points awarded, thats why I wasnt as critical about the performance after the Dolphin win. But this team got gashed right up their a$$ yesterday. They suffered another injury to what was already a thin WR group, and it seems that Sanchez has lost any confidence he might have had.
    Understood... But...

    When the Jets lost to New England in the 45-3 game back in 2010, we were pretty much in a similar position. There was no excuse to lose a game like that, of that magnitude. Yet the team recovered, and made a championship run and beat the same Pats team.

    At least this year, it's earlier in the year, all teams are still sorting through the kinks. The Ravens gave up 450 yds of offense to the Browns last Thursday, the Pats are 2-2 with no defense in site yesterday, the Saints are 0-4, the league is still stabilizing in terms of who the strong teams are th is year, it's far too early to write off the season, even with yesterday's debacle...

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies View Post
    Missionary?
    Stop being an a-hole, what is your point?

  17. #17
    We've played 2 good teams so far and lost by a combined 61-10. Our QB has arguably been the worst in the league this season. What is there to feel good about? A national TV blowout coming on Monday night? SWEET CAN'T WAIT

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Once again one of the happy happy joy joy apologists totally miss the point by focusing on one game and assuming people are up in arms over one game.

    Our offense looked like garbage in the ex season, our offense has looked like garbage against the last three teams we have played. We beat a lousy Miami team through sheer luck.

    We have no running game.
    Our Qb is pure awful (3 games in a row under 50%?)
    Our vaunted D line stinks, no pass rush and teams are running all over us.
    We have no Wr's.
    Our LB's are looking like they are running in Molasses.

    The team on every level looks very very bad and there is no magic bullet to suddenly make things great. Add a few injures to the mix and we are in real trouble.
    Agree.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choon328 View Post
    I have to agree with you. The sad reality of the members of this board is that 40% are borderline rooting against the Jets just to prove themselves right, 40% are way too optimistic and then there are 20% who are living in reality.
    No truer statement has ever been said on this board.
    I've seen people bookmark their own threads, so they can trudge them back out months later, gloating about it. Pretty lame.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Fishooked View Post
    No truer statement has ever been said on this board.
    I've seen people bookmark their own threads, so they can trudge them back out months later, gloating about it. Pretty lame.
    Yeah people hate it when someone says something unpopular gets shot down and then is proven 100% correct months later. People should come back months later and say. "See I was right!" Whether it be good or bad for the team.

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