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Thread: All on the O? Really?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    Did Smith overthrow his receiver, or did the Jets get pressure rush his throw?

    The fumble was big, but we can't fault Sanchez for trying to make a play there, the defender got him from behind, Sanchez has to be smarter, but he's trying to make a play, he's a competitor.

    The second half was a big momentum change due to turnovers, the Epps fumble on Tebow's first pass was a brutal play, overlooked by all of our internet GM and coaches on this board, that was a crippling change of momentum play because the Jets just got the ball back with good field position and the score still 10-0 with a chance to maybe drive there for a score.

    The Holmes turnover was brutal, he was hurt on the play, I get it, but he has to hold on to the ball there, he just has to, complete lack of mental discipline.

    The Sanchez INT on the deflected screen pass attempt was probably the only really bad play Sanchez had in the second half, there were again several key drops by players, Turner and Cumberland come to mind, both on 3rd down plays.

    Sanchez didn't play well, but he really didn't play that badly if you re-watch the tape. And as the op mentions, the defense didn't have a great day either, but SF made big plays in their wildcat formations and on the reverse plays that caught the defense off guard, but there is no excuse for 17 missed tackles, that's on the D.

    I maintain it's still not the time to give up on Sanchez, not with the players he is forced to work with, the youth, the inexperience, and the injuries, it's a big deal, but people don't want to understand this anymore.
    the Epps fumble was early 2nd quarter and the end result was Akers long miss. It was 7-0 at that point.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by millsan1 View Post
    If you actually read my post, you will see I point out bad anbd good all around. But there are a plurality of posters here blaming Sanchez and Sanchez only, or just give lip service to "the whole team had a bad game, but Sanchez was awful". Re watch the game, or at least read my post and see if I am wrong.

    One of the reasons the D was on the field so long was they were busy giving up 50-80 yard run drives, which chew up a lot of clock. Everyone did poorly, but Sanchez was not at the top nor top half of the problems yesterday.
    but when you say something like Sanchez wasn't in the top half of the problems yesterday you just look silly. It was 7-0 or 7-3 at half if not for his turnover. And his second half was as bad as QB play gets.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Santonio View Post
    but when you say something like Sanchez wasn't in the top half of the problems yesterday you just look silly. It was 7-0 or 7-3 at half if not for his turnover. And his second half was as bad as QB play gets.
    Those were bad plays. 2 bad plays. As I said, if those don't happen, what is the score? 24-3? Makes me feel better.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASH_1962 View Post
    How was the D so horrible? This game was 7-0 with 1:32 to go in the first half and the Jets with posession in SF territory on their way to at least 3 points.

    Did the Defense fumble the ball?
    Did the defense give up arguably the poorest, laziest Int in the history of NFL football?

    I am not thrilled with our defense either, in fact, I agree it sucks, but yesterday they were on the field for almost the entire first half with nothing to show for their efforts and got tired. Don't forget there was a blocked punt and SH fumble returned for 6. The D gave up 20 points, not the 34.
    Yea, Kyle Wilson stepped up big for the D - didn't you see that **** talking he was able to do for his absolute dominance over the 49ers receivers?

    If Alex Smith didn't suck, the D would've been roasted for another 21 points courtesy of Kyle "Can't Cover" Wilson...

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by millsan1 View Post
    Those were bad plays. 2 bad plays. As I said, if those don't happen, what is the score? 24-3? Makes me feel better.
    Teams that allowed 24 points went 17-22 last season

    Teams that scored 3 points or less were winless.

    You have to be outright delusional to think the defense was more responsible for this loss.

    I believe it's at least the 2nd time in 2 seasons where the Jets offense actually gave up more points than they scored.

  6. #26
    Never said the D was the reason for the loss, but they certainly have a huge share of the responsibility. I said the whole team failed. I was trying to point out that Sanchez was not the main problem and I stand by that. Again, I posted a long analyses. Anyone is free to point out where I am wrong. Pointed out good and bad by both sides of the ball.

  7. #27
    Wow I don't know how you could re-watch that entire game again.

    The blame goes to EVERYONE, offense, defense, and special teams. I laughed today on the Jets website when it asked you to select the player of the game.

    The two bright spots:

    1. SF missed 2 field goals it could have been 40-0.

    2. I don't know if it can get any worse.

  8. #28
    Mill, appreciate the time it took for you to make your post, and yeah, it has a lot of information in it.

    Unfortunately, there is this:

    Code:
    START QTR	POSS.	YARD     PLAYS	YARDS	RESULT
    
    13:16	 1	04:27 	NYJ 25	7	30	Punt
    04:41	 1	01:24 	NYJ 3	3	6	Punt
    13:37	 2	02:58 	NYJ 20	6	28	Fumble
    07:22	 2	01:46 	NYJ 45	3	3	Punt
    02:49	 2	01:38 	SFO 47	6	21	Fumble
    15:00	 3	01:41 	NYJ 21	4	25	Intercepted Pass
    11:13	 3	00:54 	NYJ 30	3	3	Punt
    07:13	 3	00:55 	NYJ 2	3	2	Punt
    02:49	 3	03:03 	NYJ 36	6	24	Fumble
    14:46	 4	01:18 	NYJ 20	3	5	Punt
    08:23	 4	00:48 	NYJ 20	3	5	Blocked Punt
    06:03	 4	01:20 	NYJ 20	3	8	Punt
    Defense had it's problems, but here's a fact that you can't escape. Say that the D played remarkably well and held SF to 3 pts on a FG and even managed to score 2 pts for us on a safety. We still would have lost. because the offense SUCKED BALLS.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Apache 51 View Post
    You are micro-managing the D. The function of defense is to allow as few as points as possible and make sure the O has it's fair share of possessions. I don't care about yards, completions etc. they held SF to 10 points just shy of 3 full quarters. Locker rooms are divided between O and D on good days I hope this doesn't start going real bad in there.
    Remember what Bart Scott said just before the start of the season. He expected Sanchez to step up and be a top 10 QB this year. Scott wasn't just speaking for himself when he said that. He was expressing the sentiments of the Jets D.

    Sanchez is ranked #25...with 49.6% completions; and a 69.6 QBR. That lockerroom is fracturing for sure. Only W's can cure that disease.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by MadCroatian View Post
    Lotta effort went into that post. I applaud you for having the stomach to "WATCH" the game again, nevermind analyze it as you did.

    I agree that the D was horrible, and that Sanchez has ZERO talent/playmakers/tools on this team. The saddest part about the Offense is how poorly our offensive line did in both run blocking and pass protection.
    Brick has become a liability. He is the most overrated player on the Jets. Amazing how people are blind to his sucktitude or elect to overlook it. He never could run block but once could provide decent protection. For the last 2 seasons, he more frequently resembles a turnstile. And he still can't run block.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Apache 51 View Post
    You are micro-managing the D. The function of defense is to allow as few as points as possible and make sure the O has it's fair share of possessions. I don't care about yards, completions etc. they held SF to 10 points just shy of 3 full quarters. Locker rooms are divided between O and D on good days I hope this doesn't start going real bad in there.
    This defense repeatedly gives up long sustained drives. It is way below par on 3rd down conversions. It rarely makes a stop when needed. It has to be one of the worst run defenses in the NFL. Just because the offense is putrid, doesn't excuse the clear and obvious defects on this overrated defense. There is enough suck for all to share.

  12. #32
    When the TOP is 37-23 the D is going to struggle. Give them some credit it could have been a LOT uglier IMO. You can't stop every play. They did get some pressure on the QB, they held Gore to under 3 ypc, and they covered Davis for the most part well. The wildcat killed us and that has always been a weakness of this D. 100 yards rushing to WRs and QBs is pathetic. I don't think SF had done that to any other team but I could be wrong. They just kept moving the ball on plays our LBs should have stopped before they began. We do not have the LBs to adjust and SF took advantage of it. The bigger issue is the O. No run game was expected but Sanchez couldn't get anything going. He is mobile if he can't throw I say try using him at RB. I think his career average in 3 YPC. It is not like it would be a downgrade. Maybe he can block.

  13. #33
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    We put up ZERO points! defense and special teams are irrelevant when your O puts up zero points.

  14. #34
    whether you like it or not, the offense put up a goose egg and the bottom line on any game is the score. sure the defense wasn't great. it looks like sf adjusted at the half and they were having trouble stopping the run game. but consider if the jets were able to complete a couple of drives especially in the second half when they came out down 10-0? what if they scored a td on their first drive of the second half. football is an emotional game so a few big plays on either side of the ball would have done wonders.

    and even if the jets offense was converting some plays they can't keep on relying on third and long conversions. they were rarely able to get into 3rd and short situations thanks to poor yardage on first and second down plays.

    Quote Originally Posted by millsan1 View Post
    Just watched the whole game again.

    First possession, 49ers 3 and out after a penalty 1st down. Good job D.

    Punt. Jets start on the 25.
    Good drive. 1st down, on first pass.
    Sanchez converts a 3rd and long after a penalty negated hi other 3rd and 5 conversion.
    Sanchez takes coverage sack.

    Punt and pin 49s on their 8.

    Defense gives up 45 yards. Punt.

    O pinned on the 2.
    3 and out when Holmes dogs his route and is not ready for a well thrown pass.
    Punt.

    Block in the back puts 49ers on their 32.
    D gives up TD drive. Including a huge run by that monster runner, Manningham.
    And of course, the wildcat for a TD.

    O Takes it at the 20.
    First down
    Tebow throw ending in a fumble.

    49ers take over on Jets 47
    D comes up with 2 big sacks.
    49ers miss FG

    Jets take over 3rd and 1. Have to call a timeout because both pass and run offensive players are off the field. This is a mistake by the O.

    Mangold gets beat. Sanchez gets sacked. Punt.

    49ers take over on their 12.

    convert once.

    Bad punt, Jets take ball on 49ers 47. 1st pass to Kerley, dead on for what should be an 8 yard gain, Kerley runs backwards for about a 5 yard gain.
    Next pass, laser to Holmes who gets drilled from behind and drops. Flag thrown and picked up.
    Throw to Turner right on the money, Turner drops it.

    Personal foul, drive alive.

    Sanchez fumbles while trying to pick up yards. Mistake, but made trying to make something happen. Not good, but not horrible.

    49ers take over on the 26, with less than 2 minutes to go.
    First play is a 23 yard pass.
    D allows a drive to the 17. 49ers kick the field goal.

    Halftime.


    OK, so we are at the half and the D has given up big drive after big drive. The O has performed OK, and Sanchez has been fine, minus the fumble. Where is this "horrible play" everyone is complaining about?


    Second half starts, Jets on 22.
    Sanchez makes great throw to Schillens near the 50.
    At this point, Sanchez is 7/12 for 75 yards. Not world beating stats, but not bad. He has been sacked twice. He throws a bad INT on the screen.


    49ers on the Jets 41.
    First play, 12 yard run. Is the D tired from halftime?

    Bad FG from 49ers.

    This is where it starts to go bad on the O.
    Sanchez throws a bad pass to Cumberland. No idea WTF that was.
    Sails one over Holmes.
    Punt.

    49ers on Their own 40.
    A lot of nothing, except Smith overthrowing Manningham. Punt.

    Jets start on their 2.
    Green does his usual 2 yard runs.
    Sanchez hit in 2 seconds and misses a pass.
    3 and out.

    Terrible punt.

    49ers start on Jets 48.

    Manningham again makes a big run, because, after all, he is a WR.

    Uncovered man gets another 25 yard pass.

    D stops the 49ers to a 4th and 1 on the 2. And to show the respect they have for our D, the niners run straight down our throat for a TD.

    Jets have ball on 35.
    Complete to Holmes to 47.
    Good stab down field, good coverage breaks it up.
    Sanchez sacked, canceled by 49ers penalty.

    Tebow, our hero, loses 3.

    End of 3rd.

    Has the O made mistakes? Yes. Are they playing horrible? No. Is the D playing like poop? Oh hell yes.

    Sanchez throws a nice pass to Holmes, hits him in stride, Holmes has an injury and drops the ball, leading to niners TD.

    Jets take over on the 20. Brick gives up a shoestring almost sack. Incomplete.
    Sanchez is now playing with the Preseason receiving corps.
    Under pressure, nice 8 yrd completion to Kerley.
    3 and out.
    Punt.

    Niners take over on their 32.
    1st play? another 12 yard run.
    Niners are blowing the D linemen off the ball and making big holes for the runners. Number 1 D, right? Rex is a D Genius. (AS long as he has an Ed Reed, or Ray Lewis or Darrell Revis)
    D proceeds to give up 9 yard run after 9 yard run.
    FG

    Jets start on their 20.
    Brick gets beat. Again. For a sack. Cancelled by penalty.
    2 bad throws.
    Sanchez pressured on the snap. Everyone covered, thrown away.

    AND Then the 1 man punt block. Well done. Well done indeed. ST takes up the Mantle of crap play.

    Game is over at this point. Obviously TD and 34-0.

    Rest is academic.

    SO can someone show me where Sanchez was "horrible" or where it was all his fault? From what I see, the D has a giant poop sandwich to eat. Rex needs 2 helpings. As far as I can see the O line gets a nice big bite and Sanchez gets half a sandwich.

    The fumble? So the game is 31-3? That would make it better?
    The INT? 28-3?

    The whole Jets team needs to take a big bite, but Sanchez is not responsible for the biggest bite.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Demosthenes9 View Post
    Mill, appreciate the time it took for you to make your post, and yeah, it has a lot of information in it.

    Unfortunately, there is this:

    Code:
    START QTR	POSS.	YARD     PLAYS	YARDS	RESULT
    
    13:16	 1	04:27 	NYJ 25	7	30	Punt
    04:41	 1	01:24 	NYJ 3	3	6	Punt
    13:37	 2	02:58 	NYJ 20	6	28	Fumble
    07:22	 2	01:46 	NYJ 45	3	3	Punt
    02:49	 2	01:38 	SFO 47	6	21	Fumble
    15:00	 3	01:41 	NYJ 21	4	25	Intercepted Pass
    11:13	 3	00:54 	NYJ 30	3	3	Punt
    07:13	 3	00:55 	NYJ 2	3	2	Punt
    02:49	 3	03:03 	NYJ 36	6	24	Fumble
    14:46	 4	01:18 	NYJ 20	3	5	Punt
    08:23	 4	00:48 	NYJ 20	3	5	Blocked Punt
    06:03	 4	01:20 	NYJ 20	3	8	Punt
    Defense had it's problems, but here's a fact that you can't escape. Say that the D played remarkably well and held SF to 3 pts on a FG and even managed to score 2 pts for us on a safety. We still would have lost. because the offense SUCKED BALLS.
    People don't seem to understand that your offense actually does have an impact on how your defense plays. There aren't too many defenses that could deal with 7 three and outs, 2 fumbles, an interception, blocked punt, or the pathetic time of possession.

    Great job stating the facts here as it just shows how skewed the observations of the OP were.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    This defense repeatedly gives up long sustained drives. It is way below par on 3rd down conversions. It rarely makes a stop when needed. It has to be one of the worst run defenses in the NFL. Just because the offense is putrid, doesn't excuse the clear and obvious defects on this overrated defense. There is enough suck for all to share.
    I am going to have to disagree with you this has been my stance since day one I am not saying the D is elite, never did, nor are they perfect for the most part they keep the O in the games you can only hold so long before the dam breaks. There is no balance, poor field position is inherited too often, only 2 of the 3 phases are productive you'll never win when O is the missing phase especially when it's missing completely.


    Ah, see chart above. Maybe some people need numbers to understand?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by ListerFiend View Post
    if the D wasnt on the field for the entire 3rd Quarter because of our lolercaust of an offense, then maybe they could have kept the score down.
    I agree in the 3rd quarter the D had let up 13 points - not sure what the OP was saying - calling them terrible. This is the NFL and rules heavily favor the offense. Teams score in this league - it happens.

    Holding a team to 13 points through the 3rd quarter is quite good, considering how poorly the offense was playing.

    There's clearly an agenda in this post to protect Sanchez, but any honest analysts will see that while the defense was terrible the offense was worse.

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