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Thread: New Refs/Old Refs, Bad Refs Regardless

  1. #1

    New Refs/Old Refs, Bad Refs Regardless

    I doubt most will agree, but I think the "old refs" were almost the equal in general terribad calls for the Jets vs. 49ers game.

    I'm not generally a "Ref Whiner", it's part of the game.

    Nor would I be so silly as to claim that the two specific calls discussed below "cost us" the game. We were horrible, and losing no matter the calls that day.

    Let me say it again, THE CALLS DID NOT COST US THE GAME.

    But two big, game changing calls, were about as bad as I've ever seen, and the equal to any bad "new lingerie refs" calls.

    Call #1: The "Fumble" by our hyper-extended-knee backup TE in the middle of the field. Replay clearly showed he barely caught it or had posession before he got broke-kneed and lost it, and while he got at least one foot down, it was close on even getting the second foot down, and he absolutely did not make any form of "football move" before losing the ball. This was a textbook incompletion ruled as a fumble.

    Call #2: Holmes fumble. Again, we have a pretty clear-cut case of "declaring himself down", as Holmes went down, made absolutely no effort to forward the ball, and was instead clutching his leg and tossed the ball away rather clearly on purpose. No excuse to Holmes, who shouldn;t have done it (pain is a strong motivaot, assuming he isn't the faking scumbag many think he might be). But within the rules, he did not fumble, he either declared himself down, or at worst threw an illegal forward pass incompletion. This one went for 7 the other way.

    I'm sorry, but these two calls were as bad, and as obvious, as I've ever seen, and both went the wrong way. If teh game was close, we'd have lost it because of these calls, thankfully for the old refs, the game was a laugher and the calls irrelevant.

    But with all due respect, I sure hope this isn't the big improvement so many thought we'd get, because IMO, while they called less pass interference (including blatantly missing a few legit calls of that penalty), the old refs were pretty horrible IMO in the Jets v. 49ers game.

  2. #2
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    There is a difference between making the wrong call and not knowing the rules.

    The scab refs didn't know the rules.

  3. #3
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    1. I agree with you, and more importantly, Mike Perreira did as well. It was close though. I think if the ruling on the field was incomplete, it certainly would have stayed as an INC.

    2. After analyzing the play in connection with knowing that Holmes was hurt, you can make the argument that he was giving himself up. Its a possibility, but I don't think you can come to that conclusion definitively, even with a replay. And certainly not at full speed when the injury is not evident to the official. To me, that play was called correctly. Yes, he was in obvious pain, but if you are going to give yourself up, you need to do it in a more clear fashion.

  4. #4
    The regular refs are and always have been mediocre at best, but the replacements were an abomination that made games last 4 hours,didn't know the rules and let every game get out of control. Also, these guys had no pre-season to get ready so hopefully they improve. The replacements have no business on a D1 field let alone the NFL.
    Last edited by Carlton; 10-02-2012 at 11:06 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    1. I agree with you, and more importantly, Mike Perreira did as well. It was close though. I think if the ruling on the field was incomplete, it certainly would have stayed as an INC.

    2. After analyzing the play in connection with knowing that Holmes was hurt, you can make the argument that he was giving himself up. Its a possibility, but I don't think you can come to that conclusion definitively, even with a replay. And certainly not at full speed when the injury is not evident to the official. To me, that play was called correctly. Yes, he was in obvious pain, but if you are going to give yourself up, you need to do it in a more clear fashion.
    Cruz went down before contact and left the ball on the ground. The other team picked it up and ran it in for a td, but they called it "giving himself up".

    Holmes (i hate him) falls down and throws the ball up, this should be the same call and it wasn't.

    I agree with both, they are were bad calls, and I missed the replacement refs.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    2. After analyzing the play in connection with knowing that Holmes was hurt, you can make the argument that he was giving himself up. Its a possibility, but I don't think you can come to that conclusion definitively, even with a replay. And certainly not at full speed when the injury is not evident to the official. To me, that play was called correctly. Yes, he was in obvious pain, but if you are going to give yourself up, you need to do it in a more clear fashion.
    I think the rules should be clarified to say "any time a player intentionally drops the ball / places it on the ground / etc, he has declared himself down".

  7. #7
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    Replacement refs made bad calls for everyone, making it a fair game. Old Refs have an agenda. Which is worse?

    Lets just say old refs are back and the Patriots are back to looking like all world in just one week.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funaz View Post
    Cruz went down before contact and left the ball on the ground. The other team picked it up and ran it in for a td, but they called it "giving himself up".

    Holmes (i hate him) falls down and throws the ball up, this should be the same call and it wasn't.

    I agree with both, they are were bad calls, and I missed the replacement refs.
    And everyone admitted (including the Giants) that that was a terrible call. But the refs blew it dead so there was nothing they could do.

    I'm not so sure that it was obvious at the time as to what he was doing. Looking at his actions in conjunction with his injury makes you realize that he was trying to "give himself up" but I don't think it was clear cut. Its hard to apply intention to someone's actions while looking at it in a vacuum.

  9. #9
    The first one was the definition of a tossup call. I bet if it was called the other way on the field it would have stood, but it wasn't.

    The Holmes play can't be anything they go over in ref school too often, I think they made the right call, though. Maybe right when they realized how bad he was hurt they wanted to take it back, but you make your calls in real time reacting to what you see. You're allowed to pick up an illegal forward pass - maybe they could have called it and let the Niners decline, but the outcome would have been the same.

    The replacement refs were messing up our games (remember that PI call against the Steelers?), letting SEA/GB happen, and letting Darius Heyward-Bey get his head taken off. So far there's no comparison whatsoever apart from both groups wearing the same shirts.

  10. #10
    The Epps call was bad, the Holmes one was alot tougher to make. Can't really have refs trying to determine when a player declares himself down on fumbles.

  11. #11
    I know what will fix these refs. Have some kind of lethal trap attached to their head, and every time they get a call wrong, some objective football god will set the trap off, blowing the refs brains out. That's what I call justice.

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