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Thread: Holmes out, is this what Sanchez really needed? Eli/Schockey Part II?

  1. #21
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    Pathetic. Seems to me we have a lot of talent, but little experience. Kind of like the Giants had back when Shockey, and Tiki left. Manning was no where near a top 5 QB then either.

    Carry on ladies

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Funaz View Post
    I;ve been saying we're better off without holmes since he got here. Holmes is an overrated lockerroom cancer. One of Tanny's biggest blunders was keeping him instead of Braylon. Braylon was happy as a pig in mud to be out of Cleveland and was a good camper. Holmes was here just to get a big payday and wanted the ball.

    I understand trading for him to make a 1 year push but you have to cut ties with him. I hope he never plays for the jets again.

    I agree 100%, he's more trouble than he's worth.. That's why Pitt traded us such a talented WR for next to nothing ( a 4th, I think).

  3. #23
    Sanchez is not Eli. Stop. Just stop. No seriously. Stop.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    Sanchez is not Eli. Stop. Just stop. No seriously. Stop.
    Sanchez may never become Eli, but to definitely rule that out is idiotic.

    Here's a snippet of performances from Eli's FOURTH year in the league:

    Week 8: 44.8 QB Rating
    Week 12: 33.8 QB Rating
    Week 15: 51.1 QB Rating
    Week 16: 32.2 QB Rating

    He would have been run out of town without that miracle SB run.

    Patience. Let's see what Sanchez can do with his weapons back.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by JamaicanJetFan View Post
    Sanchez may never become Eli, but to definitely rule that out is idiotic.

    Here's a snippet of performances from Eli's FOURTH year in the league:

    Week 8: 44.8 QB Rating
    Week 12: 33.8 QB Rating
    Week 15: 51.1 QB Rating
    Week 16: 32.2 QB Rating

    He would have been run out of town without that miracle SB run.

    Patience. Let's see what Sanchez can do with his weapons back.
    +1, everyone conveniently forgets...not to mention the guy had to get used to all these replacements to start the season, he will improve week to week

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by JamaicanJetFan View Post
    Sanchez may never become Eli, but to definitely rule that out is idiotic.

    Here's a snippet of performances from Eli's FOURTH year in the league:

    Week 8: 44.8 QB Rating
    Week 12: 33.8 QB Rating
    Week 15: 51.1 QB Rating
    Week 16: 32.2 QB Rating

    He would have been run out of town without that miracle SB run.

    Patience. Let's see what Sanchez can do with his weapons back.
    Eli is the only recent QB to have had a career arc with major struggles for 4 regular seasons, followed by dramatic improvement into an elite QB. It has basically never happened outside of him. Every other QB with a 4 years like that or like Mark's has been mediocre at best and rarely started much beyond the 4the year. But hey, they play in the same town, so obviously it's going to happen

    Sanchez has had weapons. He's always been mediocre, weapons or not.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Mohegangreen View Post
    +1, everyone conveniently forgets...not to mention the guy had to get used to all these replacements to start the season, he will improve week to week
    There's nothing to forget. Eli is an extreme outlier of QB progression. It just doesn't happen like that.

    Plus, if you insist on comparing the 2, let's not forget that Eli has a HoF pedigree in his DNA (father, brother) and the Giants pretty much made him the centerpiece of the offense since year 2. Jets in year 4 came out and said they wanted to run the ball and reduced the weapons in the passing offense. They were not looked at as the same type of player by their respective coaching staffs.

  8. #28
    i think holmes being out of the huddle relaxes the offense. they tried too hard to force the ball to him early and it disrupted the rhythm.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    Eli is the only recent QB to have had a career arc with major struggles for 4 regular seasons, followed by dramatic improvement into an elite QB. It has basically never happened outside of him. Every other QB with a 4 years like that or like Mark's has been mediocre at best and rarely started much beyond the 4the year. But hey, they play in the same town, so obviously it's going to happen

    Sanchez has had weapons. He's always been mediocre, weapons or not.

    ??? Other than late 2010 and the 2010 playoffs, what are you talking about?

  10. #30
    I have to agree with the OP in principle. Mark always had to have in the back of his mind to target Holmes for Holmes' sake. With the current situation, Mark is free to immediately throw to his first best read - it's a team-first progression, not Holmes and then let's check the other guys. Sucks to have in black and white but this is what Holmes' behavior resulted in regardless of what he was saying this season.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by BaysideSteve View Post
    I have to agree with the OP in principle. Mark always had to have in the back of his mind to target Holmes for Holmes' sake. With the current situation, Mark is free to immediately throw to his first best read - it's a team-first progression, not Holmes and then let's check the other guys. Sucks to have in black and white but this is what Holmes' behavior resulted in regardless of what he was saying this season.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=V-OYKd8SVrI

  12. #32
    Only good thing about Holmes being down is more playing time for our developing young receivers. The Jets offense is better with Holmes playing, he's a serious threat the other team has to prepare for.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    Only good thing about Holmes being down is more playing time for our developing young receivers. The Jets offense is better with Holmes playing, he's a serious threat the other team has to prepare for.
    No its not. Holmes is a slightly above average reciever. He's not a top 5 reciever, he's not even a top 3 receiver in NY. Having Holmes does nothing for our offense except for hurt it.

    Its a godsend he got hurt, and I hope he never plays for the jets again.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Funaz View Post
    No its not. Holmes is a slightly above average reciever. He's not a top 5 reciever, he's not even a top 3 receiver in NY. Having Holmes does nothing for our offense except for hurt it.

    Its a godsend he got hurt, and I hope he never plays for the jets again.
    Without Holmes, we lose to Miami and we're 2-4, the landing strip is full of NFL draft threads, and even the homers are predicting the Pats to blow us out this weekend. A godsend he got hurt? Sorry, I don't see it that way, he was our best skill player on offense.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by JamaicanJetFan View Post
    ??? Other than late 2010 and the 2010 playoffs, what are you talking about?
    His first 3 seasons? The guy has had a top 5 defense his first 3 years as a crutch, and a top 5 rushing attack his first two years. His 3rd year he still had a top 5 D, and great weapons on offense.

    If you want to compare Eli like some of you delusional clowns do.

    2004: Giants #13 rated defense
    2005: Giants #24 rated defense
    2006: Giants #25 rated defense
    2007: Giants #7 rated defense, won Superbowl

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocityvirus View Post
    His first 3 seasons? The guy has had a top 5 defense his first 3 years as a crutch, and a top 5 rushing attack his first two years. His 3rd year he still had a top 5 D, and great weapons on offense.

    If you want to compare Eli like some of you delusional clowns do.

    2004: Giants #13 rated defense
    2005: Giants #24 rated defense
    2006: Giants #25 rated defense
    2007: Giants #7 rated defense, won Superbowl
    Defense does not contribute to Sanchez's passer rating. The point was about offensive skill players. The Giants accumulate offensive skill players for Manning. This Jets organization has largely ignored them, or brought on mercenaries like Plaxico.

    I'd also appreciate it if you didn't call me a delusional clown.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    Eli is the only recent QB to have had a career arc with major struggles for 4 regular seasons, followed by dramatic improvement into an elite QB. It has basically never happened outside of him. Every other QB with a 4 years like that or like Mark's has been mediocre at best and rarely started much beyond the 4the year. But hey, they play in the same town, so obviously it's going to happen

    Sanchez has had weapons. He's always been mediocre, weapons or not.
    Look back at guys like Rich Gannon and Drew Brees. Neither played particularly well the first 3-4 years. The Chargers did not just dump Brees because of the shoulder. They were getting tired of him. Gannon was just plain bad before he got to Oakland. Will it click for Sanchez? Who knows? He's here at least for 2013, so we better hope it does.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombo View Post
    Look back at guys like Rich Gannon and Drew Brees. Neither played particularly well the first 3-4 years. The Chargers did not just dump Brees because of the shoulder. They were getting tired of him. Gannon was just plain bad before he got to Oakland. Will it click for Sanchez? Who knows? He's here at least for 2013, so we better hope it does.
    Ok....so we should wait for Mark's 12th year before he decides to turn it on like Gannon? Drew Brees was a 60% completion passer by year 2 already....nothing like Sanchez has been.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by JamaicanJetFan View Post
    Defense does not contribute to Sanchez's passer rating. The point was about offensive skill players. The Giants accumulate offensive skill players for Manning. This Jets organization has largely ignored them, or brought on mercenaries like Plaxico.

    I'd also appreciate it if you didn't call me a delusional clown.
    Santonio Holmes
    Plaxico Burress
    Ladanian Tomlinson
    Thomas Jones
    Jerricho Cotchery
    Dustin Keller

    Pro Bowlers on the OL, a stout running game?

    Does Sanchez need a fill in as well to complete his passes?

    Wait...yes, he does actually

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocityvirus View Post
    Santonio Holmes
    Plaxico Burress
    Ladanian Tomlinson
    Thomas Jones
    Jerricho Cotchery
    Dustin Keller

    Pro Bowlers on the OL, a stout running game?

    Does Sanchez need a fill in as well to complete his passes?

    Wait...yes, he does actually
    Cotchery and LT were acknowledged when I talked about the 2010 team.
    Plaxico was a net negative contribution to the team.
    Thomas Jones?
    Keller is fine, he's probably the definition of a league average TE.
    We'll see how the sans-Holmes era plays out.


    Bottom line is that the Jets have never been ranked as having an above average collection of offensive skill players between RB, WR, and TE under Rex.
    Now I hope that Kerley is a diamond in the rough, Schilens finally realizes his potential, Hill flashes, and Keller plays like vintage Keller. Sanchez has been missing half of his legitimate weapons for most of this season.

    Look, Sanchez may not be anything-- but I'm not writing him off until I've had a chance to see him with his weapons in a non-Schottenheimer offense (the rest of 2012)

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