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Thread: The Tinstar GM Philosophy

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    And then there are all those guys that come from small schools that Palmetto wouldn't deign to bother with... after all, they're not from the SEC...

    Tony Romo- Eastern Illinois
    Terrell Owens- Tennessee Chatt.
    Donovan McNabb- Syracuse
    Brian Westbrook- Villanova
    Randy Moss- Marshall
    DeMarcus Ware- Troy
    Osi Umeniyora- Troy
    Jared Allen- Idaho State
    Jason Taylor- Akron
    Chad Johnson- Oregon State
    Steven Jackson- Oregon State
    Brian Urlacher- New Mexico State
    Brett Favre- Southern Miss
    LaDainian Tomlinson- Texas Christian
    Antonio Gates- Kent State

    But are any on the Jets? If you are not any good at finding diamonds in the rough at small schools (the Jets are not), at least look in the more logical places (the Jets do not).
    Wouldn't call Syracuse a small school. A long history of great players. Last I checked Oregon State competes at a high level also.
    Do the Jets really have ANY good players other than Revis and Mangold? Big schools. If they do who are they? Drafted ones not acquired - Holmes is a borderline - locker room cancer. Cromartie? Birth control ad.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    But are any on the Jets? If you are not any good at finding diamonds in the rough at small schools (the Jets are not), at least look in the more logical places (the Jets do not).
    Wouldn't call Syracuse a small school. A long history of great players. Last I checked Oregon State competes at a high level also.
    Do the Jets really have ANY good players other than Revis and Mangold? Big schools. If they do who are they? Drafted ones not acquired - Holmes is a borderline - locker room cancer. Cromartie? Birth control ad.

    Ah, the old bait and switch. Now we're only talking about the Jets and not the quality of the ACC? If this was all as easy as just picking guys from "big schools," the NFL scouting departments could just go home and call it a day. Fortunately, we have never seen any big school busts because they play in such mean nasty conferences.

    If your point is to criticize the skill of our scouting department, that's one thing... and it's somewhat debatable, but all the evidence is there that the ACC is considered a very worthy source of NFL talent. I do think that those who have made a point of how poorly the Jets have done with late rounds are correct, at least in comparison to some of the elite organizations. I took a look recently at all the 5th, 6th and 7th rounders taken by the Steelers since 2008. A lot of them are still in the league, and some of them are solid starters. Every pick matters if your goal is become an elite team with depth.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    Ah, the old bait and switch. Now we're only talking about the Jets and not the quality of the ACC? If this was all as easy as just picking guys from "big schools," the NFL scouting departments could just go home and call it a day. Fortunately, we have never seen any big school busts because they play in such mean nasty conferences.

    If your point is to criticize the skill of our scouting department, that's one thing... and it's somewhat debatable, but all the evidence is there that the ACC is considered a very worthy source of NFL talent. I do think that those who have made a point of how poorly the Jets have done with late rounds are correct, at least in comparison to some of the elite organizations. I took a look recently at all the 5th, 6th and 7th rounders taken by the Steelers since 2008. A lot of them are still in the league, and some of them are solid starters. Every pick matters if your goal is become an elite team with depth.
    No bait and switch. The ACC is just not as good in football (other sports they are great). It is a worthy source of talent BUT there are better sources and the Jets have avoided those.
    The fact is the Jets do not have great ACC players on the roster. Brick had a flash. Coples was a reach and Hill - who knows. Talent and potential? Maybe but not much shown to this point. Forget Buffalo.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    No bait and switch. The ACC is just not as good in football (other sports they are great). It is a worthy source of talent BUT there are better sources and the Jets have avoided those.
    The fact is the Jets do not have great ACC players on the roster. Brick had a flash. Coples was a reach and Hill - who knows. Talent and potential? Maybe but not much shown to this point. Forget Buffalo.
    Coples was no reach at all. Whether he becomes a significant contributor as a starter is yet to be seen. Hill was not a reach either. And I'm still not getting your point about the ACC. They are second only to the SEC in first round picks. They do better than all the other conferences but one. What do you know that the entire NFL doesn't know?

    Doug Kyved at NEPatriotsdraft.com did a ten year study of drafts by conference. The ACC came in third behind the SEC and Big-12. It ranked higher than all others...


    Total players drafted from the SEC/total players drafted from2003-2012: 401/2552 – 15.7%

    Total players drafted from the B1G/total players drafted from2003-2012 Total 339/2552 – 13.3%

    Total players drafted from the ACC/total players drafted from2003-2012 Total 323/2552 – 12.7%

    Total players drafted from thePac-12/total players drafted from 2003-2012 Total 305/2552 – 12%

    Total players drafted from the Big12/total players drafted from 2003-2012: 291/2552 – 11.4%

    NEPD Editor: Doug Kyed
    Last edited by long island leprechaun; 10-06-2012 at 11:27 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    Coples was no reach at all. Whether he becomes a significant contributor as a starter is yet to be seen. Hill was not a reach either. And I'm still not getting your point about the ACC. They are second only to the SEC in first round picks. They do better than all the other conferences but one. What do you know that the entire NFL doesn't know?

    Doug Kyved at NEPatriotsdraft.com did a ten year study of drafts by conference. The ACC came in third behind the SEC and Big-12. It ranked higher than all others...


    Total players drafted from the SEC/total players drafted from2003-2012: 401/2552 15.7%

    Total players drafted from the B1G/total players drafted from2003-2012 Total 339/2552 13.3%

    Total players drafted from the ACC/total players drafted from2003-2012 Total 323/2552 12.7%

    Total players drafted from thePac-12/total players drafted from 2003-2012 Total 305/2552 12%

    Total players drafted from the Big12/total players drafted from 2003-2012: 291/2552 11.4%

    NEPD Editor: Doug Kyed
    I think Coples WAS a reach. Why? He took off his senior year. THAT is a character flaw. I don't like bad character. And as a result he has done what so far - zip.
    Hill as a round 2 guy, less of a reach. But has done? He has decent size and is fast but why not look at a PROVEN WR. There were guys out there catching more passes in one year than he did in his career.

  6. #26
    I think Coples WAS a reach. Why? He took off his senior year. THAT is a character flaw. I don't like bad character. And as a result he has done what so far - zip.
    Hill as a round 2 guy, less of a reach. But has done? He has decent size and is fast but why not look at a PROVEN WR. There were guys out there catching more passes in one year than he did in his career.


    I haven't seen Coples on the field enough to judge his talent. There are practice players and game players, maybe the jets should put a few of the bench setters in to see which they are.

  7. #27
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    Coples just got here, some training, some food, some juice he will be good to go.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMo View Post
    Coples is not a 4-3 DE, he can be a very good 4-3 DT or a IMHO a really nice 5-tech. Think Justin Smith in terms of body type (NOT saying he will be that good, just saying you don't have to be 315-320 to play 5-tech).
    yeah I think ideally you want coples lining up as end in a 3-4 base look and then have the option of moving him inside on passing downs and rushing 4

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by adoom View Post
    I think Coples WAS a reach. Why? He took off his senior year. THAT is a character flaw. I don't like bad character. And as a result he has done what so far - zip.
    Hill as a round 2 guy, less of a reach. But has done? He has decent size and is fast but why not look at a PROVEN WR. There were guys out there catching more passes in one year than he did in his career.


    I haven't seen Coples on the field enough to judge his talent. There are practice players and game players, maybe the jets should put a few of the bench setters in to see which they are.
    We've been over this many times already. To say he took off his senior year is really silly. To say that it was a terrible situation for a player and resulted in problems for the whole team, not just Coples, would be more accurate. I honestly don't see the character flaw here at all.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    Premium positions: Money players :
    QB : RB : LT : OC :
    RB is not a premium position in the NFL anymore. It is complimentary. WR is, reflective of the pass-happy state of the league, born out by the preponderance of QBs and WRs that fetch premium spots in drafts, both real and fantasy.

    I love Mangold and as a former C I am partial to the position, but it isn't a premium spot, although it is more important than OG or RT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    QB : Overall team Leader and backbone of the team: The only person in the Franchise more Important should be the owner. We don't have that.
    I'd argue that the GM or HC is more important as well, but I see your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    RB : Must be elusive more than speedy with the ability to catch the ball and block to some degree : We have a candidate
    Again, the RB role has been reduced to one that is designed to complement the driving force of the offense, the passing game. It's the inability of the current regime to realize this that has resulted in much of the predicament the team now finds itself in. The notion that the rushing attack is the bell cow of the offense is outdated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    LT : Must be able to run block and pass block equally effective: We don't have that
    I'm not a huge fan of Brick, but he's definitely well-above average. I feel you are wrong here, by a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    OC : Must be stout at the POA and able to control the OL : We have that
    A heady OG can make line calls just as effectively, but yes, the C is preferable. Currently it is more important to be able to control the PoA, but when the NFL gets it in its head to go predominately back to 4-3, the agile C ala Mawae will be back in vogue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    43 Defense: Money players:
    DE : NT : CB : We have candidates:
    No, we don't. The DEs in the 43 are ideally in the 260 range. Tackles tend to be in the 280s-290s, anything more than that closes the lanes too much for the LBs to flow to the ball. There is more of a premium on the inside players penetrating as opposed to holding their lanes. Coples and Wilkerson fit this bill somewhat (neither is a perfect fit as a 3 technique), but they are both too large and slow as edge rushers. One could be the strong side DE ala Shaun Ellis, but that's it. Kendrick Ellis isn't (currently) the answer at NT, his technique is awful. I saw the clip on Playbook where he hopped against the double team and got driven 15 yards back. First thing a good NT does when they get doubled is to drop the knee and stand stout at the PoA. That's 101 stuff.

    The best suited MLB we have for the 43 is, believe it or not, Bart Scott. Quick to flow to the ball, but an admitted weakness in the passing game. That's why you want MLBs who are around 245 or so. Much of the time 43s will employ the Tampa-2, so CBs who are Cover-2 specialists are preferred (and easier to find as there is less pressure on them), Safety tends to be the more impact position. Revis would probably be good in any defense, but to use him in a Cover-2 is a waste of his talents. Cro, who knows? Landry would okay as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    34 defense : Money Players :
    OLBer : NT : MLB: CB : We have Issues :
    Agree, agree, agree, disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    The Pass rush is of utmost importance on any defense.If u can rush the Passer, Kyle Wilson can be an all pro CB.This comes from the ends in the 43 and the OLBers in the 34.
    I agree about the pass rush, but Wilson cannot be an All-Pro. He has stiff hips and has shown a consistent inability to find the ball in relation to the targeted receiver. The coaching staff blowing smoke up his ass about how good he is has resulted in not better play, but wrongly signalling the receiver had no chance against him due to an errant pass, not superior coverage as he believes. Last week alone he was beat at least 3x, but bad throws bailed him out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    You must be able to stop the run and push the middle of the pocket which makes it imperative to have a quality NT in either defense.In both schemes, you need atleast 1 inside/middle LBer who can run and hit. These are the players where you spend your money and the rest you make sure can support around these core players.
    The NT in the 34 is supposed to draw a consistent double and if they can, collapse the pocket. They are also supposed to keep the MLBs clean. In the 43, things are more muddled, but the premise is indeed the same, with more athleticism to defeat blocks being a bit of a premium. Currently we have one MLB that shoots the hole as good as any in the league (Scott), but can't tackle. Then we have another who can level (Harris), but is slower than molasses in hitting the hole. Conundrum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    Here is the problem with the Jets. When your 2 best players are a CB the other team can avoid and a WR who need someone else to get him the ball or the other team can take away,you are doomed.
    I don't think it's that cut and dried, but that's your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    The Jets no longer have these 2 players so now, they have to play football . The so-called 2 best Players on the Jets are not even the most important players any football team need to succeed.
    Again, this is the slanted view that the coaching staff can't seem to wrap their heads around. They tout Revis as the best at his position (he is). The NFL and fans across the land agree that he is a Top 5 player, regardless of position, which confirms what; that he plays a premium position due to the nature of the league being pass -driven. That also holds true for the argument that Holmes is important as he is playing the premium position which Revis is asked to defend against. But then Rex et al., want us to buy into the "ground and pound"? Doesn't add up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    This team is now better off. It's in bad shape, but it's better off.
    Don't see how, but again, your opinion.
    Last edited by Jetworks; 10-07-2012 at 04:27 PM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    I think Coples WAS a reach. Why? He took off his senior year. THAT is a character flaw. I don't like bad character. And as a result he has done what so far - zip.
    Hill as a round 2 guy, less of a reach. But has done? He has decent size and is fast but why not look at a PROVEN WR. There were guys out there catching more passes in one year than he did in his career.
    Without checking...IMO, the ACC hasn't the depth of say thebSEC or BIG 10, but having seen many ACC games and living here , IMO they get their share of talent, just not as much. Heck, when Mario Williams was drafted, NC State had 4 1st rounders. Butch Davis recruited great players to UNC. VTECH, Clemson.
    let's not overlook FSU.

    ACC has plenty of talent , just not as much.
    Last edited by southparkcpa; 10-06-2012 at 09:04 PM.

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